melissa, continued . . .

[25yearsmlc]

He can try whatever he wants. You accept what you want, you reject what you don't want.

He can be angry, he will or won't get over it. It should have no bearing on what you do.

Someday in the future you might to come to place where you can accomplish what you both say you want. It's going to take work on both sides.

Has there been any discussion as to the terms? So far all I've heard is 50/50 custody. What is it you would have to capitulate on?

The "joint custody" will happen unless he's declared unfit. I assume it's the HALF TIME that you object to?

(For those who are confused, "joint custody" does NOT mean equal physical custody. It means he'll have equal input into big decisions like religion or schooling, and they will share the physical custody, in a To Be Determined amount...)

There is a relationship between how much physical custody her h has, and the amount he pays in CS. But let's not forget he may be trying to improve as a father. I am personally convinced that is how he sees it, at the moment.

Melissa, your real questions are below and they are among the most important questions we have all faced in this situation.

You wrote:


How do I walk the line here? How do I see reality but not focus on the negativity? How do I see the good parts of my H without being further emotionally annihilated when he pulls more of his crap?

I think (apologies if I'm getting it wrong here) you mean to ask, "how can I begin to like him, if it means I get hurt more later?" and I assume (yikes!) that means you get your hopes UP, when you see the good in him. And for some reason, when his feelings about the M do not change, it hurts you...more...?

But that's not needed here, and you can disconnect the two. I'll explain more in a bit...

If I look at his negative traits/behaviors in a positive way instead, where is the line between trying to be positive and ignoring reality? To the detriment of myself and my kids?

You think there is an objective "reality" about his behavior, but that itself is a judgment from YOU about HIM. Not to mention your belief that your interpretation of his behavior, is reality.

And how on earth is it "to the detriment of you or your children" to see him in a more positive light?

No one is suggesting you deny the "reality" (="fact" in my book) that he is leaving. I'm suggesting your interpretation of it is not necessary at this point.

IMO, at this point in time, Your focus should not be on him, at all.



I really just haven't figured any of this out.

And I am tired of that. I really am. I am sick of being a victim.

This is good^^. You can choose not to be a victim. Seriously.


Someone who treats me the way he has, doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt.They don't deserve crap.

Melissa, you're a lawyer, not a judge. Look at this^^ and tell me how it helps YOU.

I swear to you, your sentiments resonate with me b/c they were mine 8 years ago.

And they did not help me or my children. If I could go back in time, I would work on ME & ONLY ME, a lot earlier.


And if we didn't have children, I would simply banish him from my life forever, because that's EXACTLY the type of stuff I don't need in my life.


Makes sense, but it's not reality b/c the FACTS are you two have 2 kids. So, moving along...

Another way of asking your question is,

How can I see him in a positive light, given my pain and the pain of our children?

he's not just hurting ME, he's also hurting OUR children and that in a way, makes him an "enemy".

I get that ^^^ Melissa.

So you have two choices here and they exist, regardless of whether you two reconcile (and don't forget, it's not impossible to reconcile AFTER a divorce. I believe 15% of couples remarry their former spouses and I have two in my family who have. So yeah, it happens. FTR, neither of those couples "expected" to reconcile, as far as I know. And one took 3 years to remarry and the other couple took 5 years to reconcile. I do know that my family members got counseling for themselves and seemed different to me, back then. Meaning they had changed for the better when they reconciled.)

Your choice IF you were to reconcile, would be obvious. We all know one of the wrong choices is to stay married AND stay miserable. You would have to go "from this day forward" and get some new tools for a happier marriage, you would both need to put your dukes down and not bring them up again...

I posit that it's also "wrong" to divorce, and stay miserable and trust you would agree. So, what If "reality" is that your h is a selfish vindictive man? Then

your choice is to live your life as a bEtter woman, at peace with herself -but with a lousy ex h,

OR

be a bItter unhappy woman, with a lousy ex h.

But it is your choice. And he can and will change and evolve and we can all hope it will be for the better. But you don't steer that ship and indeed you have to get off that ship, b/c it's his.

He can have a ton of flaws in him. There's no contest here. It's just that I see you suffering b/c of the desire to make this fairer, when it's not about that.

Life is not fair. You know this cognitively. But you still want to correct that reality. I did too, and it may be a reason we both became lawyers in the first place.

You cannot make life fair if it means changing other people. You can make their behavior irrelevant to your life, however, and that's as close to "making it fairer" as it gets, imo.

Here are the FOUR AGREEMENTS someone mentioned awhile back and I do share them with you b/c I believe in them. They helped me. Especially the 2nd one.

The Four Agreements are:

1. Be Impeccable with your Word: Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the Word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your Word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don’t Take Anything Personally
Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don’t Make Assumptions
Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best
Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse, and regret.


So, HOW do you live without self judgement and regret? B/C that is YOUR task here. How to be a woman of strength, honor and dignity, in times of serious adversity...

Melissa, have you watched either of the two TED talks I suggested? I didn't see you mention it and don't mean to "assign" you homework.

I'm saying that those videos contain free, new tools.

And you need them b/c these are stormy times.

[melissag]

25, thank you! I was hoping you would come along with some wisdom.

The "joint custody" will happen unless he's declared unfit. I assume it's the HALF TIME that you object to?

Yes, I think that my H is confused about the terms as well. I have already agreed to joint legal custody, and as you say, that is a default arrangement here in CO. What I am not agreeing to is 50/50 parenting time.

I do think that he is trying to improve as a parent. I am not sure how that will play out. I don't really want to get into all the complexities of why I don't want 50/50 physical custody (yet - I think that at some point 50/50 may be appropriate - just not now), but I do want to make clear that I am doing everything I can to make sure that I am NOT letting my own emotions cloud my vision on that.

How do I see the good parts of my H without being further emotionally annihilated when he pulls more of his crap?
[color:#3333FF]
I think (apologies if I'm getting it wrong here) you mean to ask, "how can I begin to like him, if it means I get hurt more later?" and I assume (yikes!) that means you get your hopes UP, when you see the good in him. And for some reason, when his feelings about the M do not change, it hurts you...more...?

That's pretty close, but in the current landscape, I mean how can I begin to like him, and then he goes back into nasty aggressive mode and starts spewing at me some more? And that's kind of on top of the already "this [censored] that he is leaving" pain.

And how on earth is it "to the detriment of you or your children" to see him in a more positive light?

OK, so, for example. If I view my H walking away from my D9 at TKD when she is upset about her dead fish in some more positive light - what would that be? He is teaching her to pay attention in TKD? And so I go along with it, and she is hurt. Does that make sense? That's the kind of stuff I was referring to.

IMO, at this point in time, Your focus should not be on him, at all.

How right you are. And how I struggle with this. For example, just today as I was eating lunch with my kids, H's email popped into my head and I thought about how he was saying things about what I am taking away from him. And it just struck me - really? He left me. He took away all of my hopes and plans for the future. (OK, not all, but most.) He is taking my kids away half the time (or whatever it ends up being). He is taking away my financial security. My companionship. My support. The list goes on. And yet, somehow, he ignores that completely, and whines about what he is afraid I might take away from him.

It makes me mad. And I KNOW, that is NOT helping me. I can't change that he doesn't even consider the fact that I exist and have feelings too. But it irks me. Well, irks is a massive understatement.

So, yeah, that's keeping me stuck. And I am not sure how to unstick myself.

Melissa, you're a lawyer, not a judge. Look at this^^ and tell me how it helps YOU.

I swear to you, your sentiments resonate with me b/c they were mine 8 years ago.

And they did not help me or my children. If I could go back in time, I would work on ME & ONLY ME, a lot earlier.

Yeah, like I said. I have issues here. I think I am getting better (I know, seems hard to believe) but nowhere near where I need to be. I do think that this whole legal process is making things harder for my H, which in turn makes it harder for me to STOP thinking about him, because he seems to want to constantly pick at me about something or another.

your choice is to live your life as a bEtter woman, at peace with herself -but with a lousy ex h,

OR

be a bItter unhappy woman, with a lousy ex h.

You're right, you're right. I know you're right. It's what one side of my brain KNOWS to be true. But then the other side won't shut up with the unfair and he doesn't deserve me to be nice, and blah blah blah. I need to figure out how to silence that. Or is it not a matter of silencing it, because that is impossible, but simply ignoring it?

I do have the book The Four Agreements. I read it a while back and if I'm being honest, I thought, "wow, this is great, I can't wait to get to the part where they tell me HOW to do this." And it never came. I found that frustrating. Perhaps if I give it a bit more time and read it again (maybe on a double yoga day!), it will be more helpful to me.

Melissa, have you watched either of the two TED talks I suggested?

Yes, I have, and thank you for suggesting them. Shawn Achor, btw, is pretty funny and I love fast talkers so that one was right up my alley.

I think they are talks that I need to watch again and again. I feel like I need to set aside a block of time each day - maybe 20 minutes? - to review some things that are important. It turns out that becoming the person I want to be takes a lot of reminders about a lot of different things. It's definitely a practice.

[melissag]

Kinda journaling here, but would welcome any thoughts/wisdom.

So the kids came home this morning. They did immediately tell me that my H told them he would be gone for another year. (Good God, do they think he is coming back after a year??? Are we going to have to have this conversation AGAIN in a year?)

I suggested that we talk about that, and my S7 said, "no, I don't want to talk about it because it makes me cry."

So we talked about how it's important to honor your feelings and allow yourself to feel them, and that if you ignore them they never really go away, and then it gets worse. That it's OK to cry, and that sometimes it even makes you feel better afterward.

I didn't ask them the details of what H had told him re: the reasons. I let them know that it's important to me that they know that H and I both love them and want to spend time with them, and they can always talk to me about anything, and I will not be offended if they want to see Dad or talk to him or whatever - that them having a good R with him is very important to me.

I asked them how they feel things have been going so far - are they OK with it, or do they want to change things up? D9 said she thinks it's fine. I asked if she wants to spend more time at H's and she said no. S7 said yes. I asked if they would rather see H several nights in a row or one night at a time, more often. They said the latter. My D9 doesn't want to spend any more time at H's at all (she was very adamant about this, not sure what's up with that, maybe just that time in her life when she needs Mom? Should I pursue this and try to find out why?).

My S7 said he wants to spend more nights with Dad, but only if he can be with me during the day. (My heart breaks for this kid. ) I asked if 5 nights in a row with Dad would be cool and they both said "NO!" I let them know that they didn't have to worry about this stuff, that it is for adults to figure out, but that Dad and I just want to make sure that everyone gets what they need.

I'm not sure whether to share this info with H. Like I said earlier, I am pretty much just afraid to have any kind of convo with him aside from "I hear it may snow tomorrow," because he has been so volatile of late. This is why I keep coming back to wanting some sort of third party present to talk with him. The thought of not communicating at all bothers me (in terms of wanting to have a decent co-parenting R with him), but I am honestly just afraid to talk to him without a referee.

Apparently H signed a one year lease. It's not that I think he is a sh!tty person, I just think that he doesn't really THINK about this stuff. He wants the kids 50% of the time, but he signed a lease for another year for his two bedroom apartment in a high rise downtown? I really thought that his L would have told him that he needs to move to a place more suitable for children (at least one with three bedrooms - it's not like he doesn't have the financial means to do so).

Working on changing my lens . . . D9 told me that she made dinner at H's place last night, and H helped with breakfast this morning. They both did homework there and took showers. It is sounding like H is making more of an effort not to be Disney Dad, so I appreciate that.

[2ndTimeHurt]

"Here are the FOUR AGREEMENTS someone mentioned awhile back and I do share them with you b/c I believe in them. They helped me. Especially the 2nd one."

I knew there was a reason I like 25's posts to you;)

[2ndTimeHurt]

"I do have the book The Four Agreements. I read it a while back and if I'm being honest, I thought, "wow, this is great, I can't wait to get to the part where they tell me HOW to do this." And it never came. I found that frustrating. Perhaps if I give it a bit more time and read it again (maybe on a double yoga day!), it will be more helpful to me."

If you go to that site I mentioned a while back, he has a full program on the how to. He even gives the first 4 sessions free. Try it out. It's not about do this and you learn the how. It's more about do this and this, which makes this easier, which helps with that, and so on. Like learning how to play basketball. You learn to pass, you learn to shoot, you learn to dribble, you work on endurance, you learn team play, you learn the rules etc. then when you have learned all of those you have successfully learned how to play basketball. BUT you have to practice long and hard to be a good basketball player.

[ye21]

Hey M I would like to ask you something...do you consider yourself a very active woman? Or are you super calm and relax most of the day?

[melissag]

And after that whole thing about how important the kids are and how much they both need us and how H was going to FaceTime with S7 when I have the kids bc S7 misses him, and promising the kids when he dropped them off that he would FT them tonight . . . he didn't. We tried to FT H and got no answer.

I'm not saying this to rip on him and be negative. I'm just sad, and this is an example of why I feel like looking at H in a positive light just ends up being a disappointment. I know there must be a way to appreciate the positives and merely note the negatives without dwelling on them, so that I manage my expectations, but don't live in a constant state of resentment. Just need to find that place somehow.

ye, I'm not sure what you are asking - I work out at least once nearly every day, whether it's yoga or TKD or HIIT.

On the plus side . . . I had a fun day with the kids and a lovely dinner. Our friends' hamster (purchased last week!) had 6 babies, so we went by to see them and the kids played together while I got to chat with a good friend. I don't know what I would do without my awesome friends! Now my kids are BEGGING me for a hamster. I'm leaning toward yes, if we can somehow keep the cat from eating it. My kiddos made a leprechaun trap with a trail of gold, they are so cute. I wish they would never grow up!

[ye21]

Well the way I sense you and correct me if I sense you in a different way of how you are...I sense you as a woman that doesnt stop, very fast and multitasking/hyperactive most of the time...
I have that feeling... Could you tell me if you see yourself that way?

[melissag]

LOL, ye. I do tend to have ants in my pants, but I wouldn't go as far as hyperactive - after all, I sit on my butt typing these posts, right?

[labug]

I'm not angry. I am frustrated, sad and feeling like there is no way out of this crap no matter what I do.

It's very sad, I was sad and angry for a long time. It's difficult to see the whole life we thought we had in front of us go poof-and for me losing control of my life was almost unbearable. But what I eventually learned was, I never really had control.

There is a way out, it has very little to do with him and you will get there if you keep the focus on you.

I don't care if he is angry (well, I do care, but I can ignore it) - EXCEPT THAT it makes co-parenting very difficult. And then I am the one to blame for it. He says he wants peace, but he wants me to make that happen. I'm not doing anything that isn't peaceful, so the only way to make that happen, I guess, is to agree to whatever he wants.

If you don't feel you're to blame for anything, then don't accept it but you might ask yourself why you would even entertain that thought. If you're being peaceful, and he loses it, let him spin. You can't change his feelings, you aren't to blame for his feelings. If he gets angry when you're discussing parenting issues, stop the conversation. He'll figure out that in order to discuss things with you he has to hold his temper. (If he doesn't, it's good you're getting away from him)

(The anger wasn't in his email. He goes back and forth switching between anger, guilt, shame and being nice to me. He was very angry 18 hours ago and letting me know. And, if the past is any indication, it will be back shortly.)

He's confused and angry, most WASs are. That's why your being emotionally detached is so important.

No one has to put up with spewing anger. Walk away. You can do that.

I can move forward with my attorney. That is what I have been doing. That is what he doesn't like. When you said, "call your attorney in the morning and get the deal going," I (maybe mis) understood that to mean that you thought that would give my H what he wants. That's not what he wants. He wants to talk directly and resolve things without the lawyers. The problem is, when we do that, he tries to manipulate me into agreeing to much less than I am legally entitled to, knowing full well exactly what I am entitled to. And he uses all sorts of dirty tactics to try to make me do what he wants. Which is exactly why I have an attorney.

First, I meant he wants a D, give it to him, I didn't mean give away what that which is legally yours. If he's still angry about your hiring a L, oh well. That's water way under the bridge. If he continues to bring it up, stop the conversation.

My H and I have very little in the way of assets and even at that, I was going to have a L had we moved to D. He thought we wouldn't need them. I know him, he can be very unemotional, is a shrewd negogiator and has never been bested in a deal. I wasn't going to try to divide up our lives without the same in my corner.

I don't think you should talk with him about the financial stuff. It would be nice if you could figure out the custody together but you may not be able to do that.

He has got it set up so that I am to blame regardless of what I do, unless I agree to the settlement he wants.

There's that blame thing again. Who says you're to "blame"? Is taking "blame" for doing the right thing bad? I would guess that he knows what buttons to push with you, just as you do with him. (we all know those things, sometimes consciously, often unconsciously.) Don't let him push them. If he does, the minute you realize it, regroup and walk away. Don't try to reason with him, don't be defensive, don't try to get him to see your point...walk away.