own buz 23:mediation to reconcilliation, PATIENCE!

[JuneReN]

" I would have asked you for a beer, but it was late"

Hmmmm....let me think where have I heard that from your H before.


He has figured out what you need to hear to keep you there. Smart man.

All he has to say is I would have I could have I meant to I will and you stick around of the off chance he will produce ( he won't.. Oh he may throw you a bone, but nothing big)

I suggest you see a counsellor. You are stuck here, not willing to actually change, or work on your self esteem or love for yourself, both of which are lacking.

When you see the worth in you, you will be okay. Don't reply that you do, you don't..otherwise everything you say or do wouldn't be based on what H might say or do as a result.

You also need a GAL, some friends and a life. That is the first thing you are supposed to do and you really didn't. Try switching your obsession from H to needlepoint or hiking or running. You need to think about something else.

Sounds harsh? It is....but you haven't moved at all

[Portia]

Magic,

I am very sorry about your nephew and hope that he makes a good recovery.

I don't have any more advice for you than I have already given: get your finances in order (not as "punishment" but because you need to look after you), look to his actions and not his words and focus on YOU.

You may not be vocalizing your expectations but he has known you for 20 years - he can read you. I agree with KP, he knows exactly how much to say to keep you where you are without actually following through with anything.

[Georgiabelle]

Magic,

Opening yourself up to "wait and see" isn't making yourself vulnerable. That's having expectations. Taking care of yourself financially has nothing to do with reconciling with your h. I paid most of the bills during my my and h never had to worry about money. Now h, mentions how tight money is and acts like a giant behind regarding $$$$ saying " I could have saved him money by not letting him pay a pet deposit." And you know what? I don't care. It is truly not my problem. Making sure my h doesn't incur unnecessary expenditures is not my concern. He is an adult, made an adult decision and needs to be financially responsible for his kids. And I do love him very much. Just like you need to love you and make sure that financially, you get what is rightfully yours. Protecting yourself financially has nothing to do with love.

Just live. I promise it will work out the way it is supposed to be. Be friendly, confident and work on truly loving yourself. That is the best way to "attract " what you want. I can't promise you can attract your h back as there are no guarantees in life except death and taxes (sad but true !). But I think if you just relax and just be, you will notice big changes in how you feel.

Again, I'm not an expert.

[makingmagic]

Tx Portia, KP, Bond and G'belle:

The advice between bond and KP/Portia seem to conflict.

Bond suggests: He is making progress (baby steps) and that I need to be patient, be available to just listen/validate, etc. Not manipulating/calculating. Not controlling.

KP/Portia suggests: He is manipulating me, and it paralyzes me as he knows exactly what he is doing to keep me "here".

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Bond: Even when I agree with you and the others you still manage to disagree?? wtf?

Where am I punishing him? Where am I denying it? (I actually agreed verbatim!!)? I know I have changed, I have made a lot of progress with myself. Looking back, I have come a long way. I never said I was done changing. I have repeatedly said I am a work in progress. I am "seeing" errors in my ways. Plenty of my live friends and councillors have seen my change. DD and H too. There is still much to be improved on.

Kate: He has only mentioned beer once. You are suggesting that my h is a conniving manipulator. This may or may not be true. I have never known him to be a manipulator. Yes, he does know how I work and may use that to his advantage at times. Not sure if this is THAT time. He is a confused person ATM. His attempts to ... "i would have, I could have, I meant to"... is all part of a past behaviour. HE will need to work on that, and I will need to not accept it anymore. It used to be good enough for me. Not anymore. I need to see the end result, not just the "thought". As mentioned, I am working on self-love, self-esteem and values. When I feel I stand up for myself, I get reprimanded and challenged by Bond (suggesting I am not patient enough, and I am doing so only to punish him). This is a struggle. Then I question myself.

As for GAL, I have a pretty busy social calendar. What makes you think I didn't do this?
I know I have had movement. I am not that same afraid girl that I used to be. I do take chances and risk the outcome, regardless of h's opinion. For example, I now have self-respect and H doesn't pull the same stunts he used to. I also don't get into the fights like we used to. I just state my piece then leave. H now apologizes to me. I was also not willing to seek mediation/legal advice fearing that it would be the end to us. It took a while, but I did it. I got the ball rolling. I just need to follow it through. I have also looked at myself and found things that I did not like and am recognizing and working to change these behaviours. This is progress.

I agree that I still analyze and can obsess at times, I need to refocus. I also admitted to
trying to control the outcome. So, I am trying to be more aware of myself. This is progress 180. I was never like THAT before.

Portia ~ yes, thank you. My nephew has survived and is now out of the coma and breathing on his own. I am grateful. Many prayers answered. "If" h is all talk and no action, what do you suggest? "if" he is intentionally manipulating me ~ how do I stop it?

G-belle ~ Thanks again. I do see what you are saying and I am working on this. I didn't realize that being available to him was having an expectation. I can see this now. I just really wanted for the path back to me to be an easy one for him to take. I have read this on this board.

[KenF]

you worry about 'the path back to you' and his confusion and his manipulation and his excuses.


THIS IS NOT ABOUT HIM!

you have to accept that. and truly understand it.

this is only about you and your actions and your issues and your responsibilities.

if you do something, do it because its the right thing to do. Not because you're trying to get him to respond or to see or do.

manipulation is when your action is done with the intention of getting him to respond in a specific way.

if you linger with the intention of getting him to ask you out, then you're manipulating.

your statement of getting your name on the business was tied directly to his non-movement - thats why its manipulation. but instead it should be because your name should be on the business. and the reason you should do it now is because of YOUR non-movement over the past years.

if you want to 'keep the path easy' then fix YOUR issues. the easiest path for him would be to see you take responsibility for your role in the breakdown of the relationship and fix those issues.

but even here, you only address them in passing, its still always about him. and then its 'i've said it in a post so now its fixed' - thats not how it works. you lack consistency.

and thats why you're struggling now.

[makingmagic]

thanks for jumping in Ken.

"THIS IS NOT ABOUT HIM" "THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU"

are two conflicting messages. Bond continually states the latter.

When I make it about HIM, about understanding HIS MLC, and that its HIS path. I get compassionate and a lot more patient and understanding.

Then, when I make it about ME, I really feel strong. That I have self-respect, and act on my new value system.

^^^^^ THIS IS Confusing!!

~~~~~~~~~~

Ken ~ when you state " when I do something..its the right thing to do", not because I am trying to see his outcome.. I will try that! Getting my name on the business, I have been TRYING FOR YEARS!! Job, motivated me & I am trying to stay on path. This happens every Sunday night/Monday morning.

Reviewing my role in the breakdown ~ he would say our relationship was great, just near the end sucked with all the fighting. That and my pit-bull ways on a point. (I have been working on that). I have also been working on becoming a better listener, as this is who I aspire to be. "work in progress".

I am not sure I understand but even here, you only address them in passing, its still always about him. and then its 'i've said it in a post so now its fixed' - thats not how it works. you lack consistency.

and thats why you're struggling now."..... can you go into details? Thanks, Magic

[KenF]

MrBond: His confusion, his issues, his mlc are about him and not about you.

Me: Your confusion and your issues and your responsibilities are about you.


i dont care about him or what he does. i cant control it, change it, fix it. and neither can you. all you can do is muddy the waters - as your past experiences are showing you. most advice that i give is to stop analyzing what he's doing, i say ignore it completely because theres no middle ground with you. MrBond is more lenient, he says listen, give him space, but dont try to control.

and to clarify, by ignore i dont mean pretend he doesnt exist. i mean dont worry about what he's doing, dont analyze and discuss and postulate. dont look for deeper meaning to coffee.


any time you ask questions of more than one person you'll get more than one answer. and when you keep asking questions saying you dont understand, people will try to reword and this opens the conversation for more conflicting statements. and everyone sees what they see based on their own experiences.


you're inconsistent. you push in one situation, then next day you post that you pulled back in another situation, and then cant understand why it didnt have the desired effect. the problem wasnt the specific action in that specific situation, the problem is consistency.

you need to strive for consistency always. doing it right once does not mean you've changed. it only means you stopped yourself once. if you do it again, you've undone any changes your x may have seen. and in doing so, you're letting him know he cant rely on your changes.

[KenF]

Reviewing my role in the breakdown ~ he would say our relationship was great, just near the end sucked with all the fighting. That and my pit-bull ways on a point. (I have been working on that). I have also been working on becoming a better listener, as this is who I aspire to be. "work in progress".


i dont care what He would say.

what have you found in yourself? your answers are vague and can apply to almost everyone.

[Georgiabelle]

Magic,

I agree with Ken and GM (I think that is who mentioned this) regarding the breakdown of the relationship. Regardless of whether your x is in MLC (I'm 100% positive mine is)or not, there were problems in the relationship (I'm 100% positive of this in my own sitch too-just wasn't aware a couple of things bothered him).

Really. Look deep. My h and I rarely fought. We did snip for 2 months leading up to BD, but rarely fought. Think about this. My h did rewrite some of our history and he pointed out things that bothered him that I was unaware of at the time. However, when he brought them to my attenion, I began to see how they would bother him. It took some time to see these things would bother him. I just wasn't looking. What were some real issues?

And, the whole he is just too afraid to open up...yada, yada, yada. If he wants it, he will make the moves to get it.

[MrBond]

You're mixing up what I said again.

"The advice between bond and KP/Portia seem to conflict."

No we DO NOT conflict.

"Bond suggests: He is making progress (baby steps) and that I need to be patient, be available to just listen/validate, etc. Not manipulating/calculating. Not controlling."

That is NOT what I suggested. I said that he seems to be making baby steps to figuring things out about himself. I didn't not mean they were baby steps towards reconciliation. I also DID NOT say you need to be available. I said that if he opens up to talk to you, then just validate and listen. And I think we've ALL told you not to be manipulating/calculating and controlling.

""THIS IS NOT ABOUT HIM" "THIS IS NOT ABOUT YOU"
are two conflicting messages. Bond continually states the latter."

What are you talking about? I DID NOT say the opposite. You keep interpreting it wrong. That statement is NOT in conflict. This whole situation is not about you. It's about HIS journey, but you keep making it about you and you keep thinking he's blowing things off to hurt you on purpose. He's just doing what he FEELS is right.

When I say that this is not about him, it refers to the fact that you concentrate every one of YOUR movements to what HE does. What YOU do is up to YOU.

You're getting the messages mixed up and I would appreciate it if you wouldn't keep referring to what "I" said based on your interpretation. We're all saying the same thing, but you haven't figured it out yet. Nor do you have to. Just concentrate on yourself and STOP ASKING QUESTIONS.