Strange days...

[2ndTimeHurt]

Hey lovethehub

Thanks for your input. There's lots there I will mull over.

While I agree with so much that you've said, if this was 2 years ago id follow that advice to the t. In fact I actually did. I just feel that our sitch is in a completely different phase.

"She left because of your anger and rage which leads me to believe that she wasn't able to talk to you about she felt. Is that true? Where you receptive to her feelings? If you weren't, you really need to listen now. Listen with the ear that wants to make your M work and do not show her you are upset. Honestly listen to how you made her feel, understand it, and tell her "I am very sorry I made you feel that way. I wish I hadn't and all I can do now is my best to be sure it never happens again"."

During our first r, I didnt really listen to how she actually felt. I've spent years working on that(counseling, books, podcasts, and lots of practice). I've actually become a validating machine, but there is a time and place to just stfu.

"I'm not sure what you mean. Did you manipulate her? If you don't think you did but she does, you did. The real question is, is she crazy and twists things around or do you need to examine your part and see your manipulation. People who have anger issues often tend to be manipulators. "

I can clarify this. My intentions were never to make her feel a certain way or to get something from her. It's like you said, she felt I manipluted so therefore I did. But I know that's not true. Example. The other night it was her idea to come over for dinner, play rockband and hang out til 2:30am. I didnt ask her to do any of that, yet she felt I got exactly what I wanted so she felt manipulated. There were times in our old r where I would explain to her I felt disrespected by her hanging out one on one with a guy she had casual sex with. They texted daily and hung out at least once a week. I showed displeasure so she felt guilty and manipulated. How can I argue with that? I'm not going to call her crazy but we both know she has deep rooted issues. She has a history of depression and anxiety and she recently said she wanted to commit suicide. I've felt she has a mild case of bpd, but I've dropped that and now I accept that whatever changes I make may reflect on her. I've seen her change in the last several months.


"If you really want to work on your M you have no business chatting with 3-4 women. Trust me, as a women, I can almost guarantee it "isn't clear you are just looking for friends to go out with". Where are you chatting with these women? What type of site? If you are looking for new friends, outside of your core group, join a gym, go walk your dog in a dog park, etc. Online chatting, if you don't know each other, typically means you are looking for something more than just friends and I am pretty sure that you know that. "

She started dating 2 and a half months after she left for the 2nd time. She's told me to date and I've said I'm not ready. These women know what I'm looking for. They are clear as well. I've gone out twice with one girl and it was with my friend and hers as well. It was totally just casual.

"While keeping quiet is better than telling her she is wrong, it is by no means validating. Apologizing is great but unless you can share with that you understand how you made her feel, it doesn't make a difference. I don't mean saying "I know how you feel", either. I mean saying "I am sorry, I understand that by doing xxx I made you feel xxx. I didn't mean to and I will do my best not to do it again"."

I've posted about the 6 levels of validating. I validated to the highest level I could. I mean, she was the one who threw a plate past my head. I apologized for bringing it up and told her Ive pretty much eliminated any sarcastic comments from our communication. That was a slip up and I apologized. We're both sarcastic. I used to say something sarcastic several times a day. I can honestly say, besides that one slip up I haven't said anything sarcastic in several months.

"That is your opinion and try to remember that you both have a different experience of the same situation. You admit you had anger issues and that is why she left. There is a great chance that she tried as best she could, for as many years as she could, until the pain, loneliness, anger, whatever got the best of her and she had to go to save herself. How many years did she try for before leaving?"

I can fully admit that I was the cause during our first r. I changed and she noticed and came back saying I was the love of her life. My anger was gone but her resentment wasn't. Our roles reversed. She was the angrier one. She was the name caller. We were in couples counseling but I knew if she couldn't fully and truly forgive me then it wasn't going to work. I feel she didnt work at all in trying to forgive. During our reconciliation I was the one reading books(she doesn't like to read), I was the one keeping up with our exercises our counselor gave us(she didnt), she told me she didnt want to talk about the relationship but just live it. I would've loved that but we did need work. Forgiveness for starters. I spent a full year feeling absolute shame and guilt after she left the first time. My IC told me I needed to forgive her and myself which I did. I still have flashes of shame, but I tell myself that I worked so hard to redeem myself. My IC is actually really proud if the person I've become.

We were together for 4.5 years before she left the first time. She claims she tried that whole time. I don't argue that. What I don't agree with is how she tried. Anyone can try to build a house with just a hammer. You need more tools and neither of us had the proper tools the first time. The second time around though I had a whole toolbox full of tools while my ex still had her hammer. I'm still acquiring tools while she is content with her hammer. My IC pointed this out to me with a "change wheel". She said I'm on the far end of the wheel while my ex is still at the beginning.

"If she is asking you this it is because she is picking up on something from you - you may not even be aware of something you are doing. Watch what you are doing because you always want to be happy and friendly around her, show her the best you. There isn't a single person who can predict the outcome of this but the things you share here seem to show she isn't done and she is keeping a foot in and assessing how things are."

If I had to guess the reason she asked if I was upset it was probably because my text response wasnt as long winded as normal. I was actually busy. She projects her feelings. If I respond with a few words that does not mean I'm upset, it could mean I'm busy. But since she responds with one word answers when she's upset she thinks I do the same. Believe me, I've shown her the best me. I'm there for her when she needs me. I laugh with her. I care for her. I listen and validate her. Maybe too much as some posters have said. I do try to find a balance though. I do let her initiate things a lot. And that's the strange thing, she initiates a lot of things even though she is dating someone. From an outsider's perspective, the things she's done with me(let me dye her hair, text me at 2am to show me her artwork, many dinners, rockband, foot massage, watching shows, staying over late, hanging out for 10 hours, asking me out to late night snacks, having showers here and taking a nap, confiding in me with her daily problems, buying me treats, etc) just don't make sense.

I've stopped trying to make sense or read into anything. I really am trying to take things one day at a time and whenever I'm with her to make sure we're both happy and having fun.