melissa

[labug]

*

I was speaking from my truth. Sometimes new posters/readers here tend to pick out certain things about their Ss and then conflagrate conflate the two.

[25yearsmlc]

I have no words. What really stands out to me is when your H told his D not to follow him around, that got me. I really do hope that you H just does not realize what he is doing when he treats his family the way he has.

That got me too. I just wanted to shake him.

As for the surviving murderous fish, well, look at how HE has to suffer for M's h too....life imprisonment with a HUGE new cellmate

who asks him the same question every single night,

"hey, ya wanna be the mama or the papa?"

[paul19510]

When the interactions are good, you can fall apart b/c of the dashed hopes, or the heightened expectations, that will crash the next day,etc

or you can see it as a sign that maybe, just maybe, you two will be able to co-parent reasonably well in the future...

and in time, you will. He may tell himself "oh but M was a bitch to ME so it could never work" or some such thing.

But when he's faced with more information and positive interactions that proves his "data" about you is inaccurate, or outdated (or wholly made up so he could justify leaving...) in time,

that positive data just keeps mounting. And as it does, it points to a MISTAKE (!!!!) on his end, which he will Not want to admit to, for a long time. Maybe never.

My older sister's h left her with 3 kids after 22 years of m. He sounds like what your h sounds like. Also a L, and always the taker in the m. My older sister is an RN and a more nurturing woman never lived. She was our 2nd mother at home, helping to raise her 8 siblings (she planned my wedding).

I knew when her h was leaving that ultimately, he was doing her a favor. Their whole m centered around HIS career, HIS hobbies and HIS happiness and HIS TEMPER was what caused 90% of the conflicts in their home. Almost every problem the kids had growing up, was related to his domineering critical ways.

HIS loss...b/c now his kids are grown up and not very interested in how HIS life is. He remarried a woman who "isn't great with kids"...(shocking) and whom he himself describes as "high maintenance" (thus proving the existence of Karma/God). He DID tell her just before she remarried (weird a$$ timing if you ask me) that he had blown it. Said he "f- up" and that he was "truly sorry"...

but here's the deal. So what?

I mean sure it felt great for her to hear those words. I don't discount that and 493054 other people here, would do anything to hear them. I get that.

Thing is, his happiness meter is not HERS and there is no misery index to even things out. We cannot care how they are doing "compared to" us. IF they get a raise, it does not mean we got a pay cut. Our job is to stay in our sandbox and make it as nice as we can. Not getting in theirs or throwing catpoop in it, just to be 'fair'.

My sister has more peace in her life now, and is better treated in her "new" marriage (of 11 years now) than she'd EVER have been with her xh. That's just true. In short, her x did her a favor by leaving.
Took her a lot longer to see that, than ME, but she does see it.

All I'm saying is, there may come a time when you see that your h has done you a favor.

He may have had one foot out the door or never really put both feet IN the family life to begin with.

Like my x bil, your h may not be cut out for 'full time" parenting b/c to men like them, parenting is draining, not nourishing.

I don't mean to say that parenting is NEVER draining; God knows it can be. But I'd have to adopt another kid or get a new job or teach or something, to fill those hours I would have spent hugging someone little...

You did not make up your life and you're not delusional about who he was. HE presented a side of himself that was/is decent.

But he has another side to him, that I think was not really "all in"....and MAYBE it's best for him to work that side out, or let it stay but reveal it.

I suspect your h does not know what he is losing b/c he never really had it, fully.

I only wish you had a fast forward button for this.

You will be happy again. You will love again and I believe you will be deeply loved back, someday. To a large extent, the question of "when?" Will be up to you.

((( )))

wow that was good it mirrors some of my world too these days. But just nice to see and read.

[melissag]

Lots of great stuff here. Thank you.

I'll address the other stuff later, but regarding the fish incident specifically . . .

I am having trouble bringing myself to talk to H about this, for two reasons. One of which comes from the right place and one that is me just being mean.

I'll start with the second one. I kind of think, you know what? Screw H. Why the F should I help him to have a better R with my kids? I TRIED to do this for YEARS, and you know what I got? I got, stop undermining me; stop telling me how to parent; accept that this is the way I parent, and everyone has different styles, why can't you ever "take my side?" I got, "I'll be a better Dad without you in the way." So WHY THE F would I help him?

OK, now that that shameful thought is out of the way.

The other thought is sort of related yet not vindictive. My H HATED that I would try to talk to him about stuff like this. Hated it. It is a 180 for me to say NOTHING about his parenting. Since BD, I have said not one word. And he has told me, a number of times, that he appreciates it. I am not saying that I should not bring this up to him to stay in his good graces. I am saying the part about him appreciating it, because it shows what his stance is on these things. He doesn't WANT to hear this from me. He's not interested.

Honestly, when I think back, I kind of wish that I hadn't interfered in their R so much. To me, it seemed like a good thing (for my kids, honestly I didn't really think much about him, because I figure that kids are kids and adults can deal, but isn't the general idea of parenting that you are there for your kids, but you don't stick your hands in everything? For example, my D9 HATES violin. But she is forced to learn/play it at school this year. She cries about it from time to time and begs me to get her out of it. (And she isn't really the crying type.) But I am not going to go to the school and fix it for her. Would you all agree that is the correct decision?

So for those who think I should talk to my H about this . . . where do you draw the line when deciding whether to interfere? There is no question in my mind that if there is a danger to them, I will speak up. But what about a hurt feelings kind of danger? Am I speaking up so that they will never figure out that their Dad is a self absorbed, unsympathetic guy? Am I supposed to speak up every single time he hurts their feelings? This is the way he is. It's not like the fish thing is some isolated incident. He is super fun and rah rah, but he is self centered and not good at dealing with others' emotions. Am I talking to him to try to protect my kids, or to change my H? Or to help my H? And should I really be doing any of those things?

[melissag]

Just a quick journal . . . cause I'm a little confused.

Communication with H (about the kids) continues to be friendly.

Then he texted me about our Visa:

H: Did you do something to our Visa?
M: Nothing out of the ordinary, what do you mean?
H: It is getting declined
M: Are you using the old card or the new card?
H: Oh, that's right. You gave me a new one.
H: OK, I'll activate the new one.

I have to say, I was impressed with this communication from my H. He did not immediately assume that I had done something evil (well, maybe he did, but he didn't communicate that to me, as he has been lately). And then he acknowledged (sort of) that it was his mistake.

No blaming, accusing, rudeness. Hmm.

I thought about applauding the 1% so I texted him back,

M: thank you for asking me about this.

His response:

H: Ha! You're welcome.

I don't think he got it. But I wasn't sure how else to make it more clear without being insulting. H, thanks for not flying off the handle and falsely accusing me of evil like you normally do?

I wonder if he even notices his behavior is different . . .

[25yearsmlc]

Lots of great stuff here. Thank you.

I'll address the other stuff later, but regarding the fish incident specifically . . .

I am having trouble bringing myself to talk to H about this, for two reasons. One of which comes from the right place and one that is me just being mean.

I'll start with the second one. I kind of think, you know what? Screw H. Why the F should I help him to have a better R with my kids? I TRIED to do this for YEARS, and you know what I got? I got, stop undermining me; stop telling me how to parent; accept that this is the way I parent, and everyone has different styles, why can't you ever "take my side?" I got, "I'll be a better Dad without you in the way." So WHY THE F would I help him?

OK, now that that shameful thought is out of the way.

The other thought is sort of related yet not vindictive. My H HATED that I would try to talk to him about stuff like this. Hated it. It is a 180 for me to say NOTHING about his parenting. Since BD, I have said not one word. And he has told me, a number of times, that he appreciates it. I am not saying that I should not bring this up to him to stay in his good graces. I am saying the part about him appreciating it, because it shows what his stance is on these things. He doesn't WANT to hear this from me. He's not interested.

Honestly, when I think back, I kind of wish that I hadn't interfered in their R so much. To me, it seemed like a good thing (for my kids, honestly I didn't really think much about him, because I figure that kids are kids and adults can deal, but isn't the general idea of parenting that you are there for your kids, but you don't stick your hands in everything? For example, my D9 HATES violin. But she is forced to learn/play it at school this year. She cries about it from time to time and begs me to get her out of it. (And she isn't really the crying type.) But I am not going to go to the school and fix it for her. Would you all agree that is the correct decision?

So for those who think I should talk to my H about this . . . where do you draw the line when deciding whether to interfere? There is no question in my mind that if there is a danger to them, I will speak up. But what about a hurt feelings kind of danger? Am I speaking up so that they will never figure out that their Dad is a self absorbed, unsympathetic guy? Am I supposed to speak up every single time he hurts their feelings? This is the way he is. It's not like the fish thing is some isolated incident. He is super fun and rah rah, but he is self centered and not good at dealing with others' emotions. Am I talking to him to try to protect my kids, or to change my H? Or to help my H? And should I really be doing any of those things?

This^^ is a great internal discussion that helps you check yourself. My first instinct, apart from your kids, is to say Get out of HIS sandbox.

And I DO say that^^.

Mostly b/c it's not your job to keep fixing him/his r's, but also b/c nothing YOU tell him about parenting, is going to sink in or make a difference.

If anything, it'll backfire on you (and lately, that may mean backfiring on your d too). I really think he wants to hurt you, with her.

We can pray/hope it's not a conscious choice of his, b/c God's knows he's not self aware.

But please, please do take your d to a counselor.

Let HER be comforted & guided in this by someone other than you. While I suspect a seed will be planted that maybe her dad's view on things or how he handled it, is improvable, I don't see a downside to that.

No counselor is going to "make" her disloyal to her dad.

But any other adult would tell her that there is another way to view the whole fish incident and then she'll pick up on the fact that what her dad SAYS might be what he thinks, but it might not be, and even if he does think something, it might just be how his eyes see it. That does not make it the truth.

HER eyes and her perception of life is not skewed. She wasn't "a baby" to think the fish death was sad. She's not crazy to wonder about his "dad pad" being such a great thing. She's not "Wrong" to distrust his version of events. She is on track. She'll be validated in a way he'll never be able or willing to do.

Mostly it's about compensating for the damage he is doing, and you cannot compensate enough, by yourself.

That's my .02

[Georgiabelle]

Hi Melissa,

I can completely relate to your post about interfering with your kids' relationship with their dad. My h had this huge production about how he had to leave to become a better dad. As I've stated before, h has clinical depression, anxiety, and anger issues. If his current behavior is being a better dad ( coming over, tweeting and snap chatting while not speaking to kids, then his former parenting was Oscar worthy.

I don't mean to high jack, but I realized I have to zip it. I literally have to persuade, cajole, convince, and woo my 2 older kids that it will be okay for their dad to "babysit" (his words) them for 2 hours. My D9 actually said I ended to pay them while my oldest son has harsh words for h. You know what I tell them? " I'm sorry guys. I know your dad loves you but this is the way he is right now." They ask will he change back to the way he used to be ? And I say I simply don't know. And leave it at that. I did have to say once to h that he really needed to chat with S10. I got the eye roll along with the mumble of you are so f$&king annoying. And I've decided to say not one word. H won't hear it and won't do anything about it.

Gosh, I did high jack. I'm so sorry. My point is that I think you are right to stay out of it. My h has never been referred to as the " fun " parent so I can't relate to that. But I realized, this is his big issue and I no longer will try to fix it. It's all on him. You are doing the right thing. Live by the sword. Die by the sword

[Georgiabelle]

Melissa,

I just read the fish story and I so feel for your D. She has had some uncomfortable change in her life and your h totally messed up this situation. Again, sorry to hijack. ( I feel kind of feisty today ) when my D 'a beloved hamster died, h actually said to her "at least your mother will be the one dealing with all of this now." What a comfort this was to my D who didn't know her dad was moving over her beloved hamster she made clothes for and built a play castle. Ugh. This from the same man who actually cried during " The Notebook."

I agree it's a good idea for your kids to find someone to talk to. I do think even if you keep the door of communication open, they internalize so much. Take care! You are doing great:)

[paul19510]

ditto on all the above. I'm having issues now with W acting out or dropping out. I tried to get things better and made it worse. My D16 even called me out on it. I tried to "explain" W's non contact with her since the accident (minimal contact I should say) and she said, ....Why d you DO THAT DAD???...you give her the benefit of the doubt. she is NOT WHO YOU THINK SHE IS....SHE SHREDDED YOU TO US FOR YEARS...SHE"S NOT YOUR FRIEND....ouch

[25yearsmlc]

Paul, I heard the same thing from my kids. "Stop defending him. He doesn't defend YOU..."

but he had a lot more rationalizing to do, than I did...and I had to let go of it anyhow.

Remember the adage here, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do.