Adjusting to my new reality

[reb9597]

Old thread is locked, I guess it's time for a reality check!

Previous post - Keep on, keeping on!

Quick review: H moved out abruptly 19 months ago. We did mc for a few months last spring, but H made clear it was only to rebuild relationship with d18 & d16. Also did Retrouvaille last September, H still in mlc, no desire to work on relationship but he has noticed and commented frequently about me being a changed person. A year or less ago, ever comment or notice about changes would have been a firework in my brain hoping something would spark for him. Now it's an accepted reality and the marriage we had, the person I was seems so different. It's not a painful memory anymore, just a disbelief that half of my life was with H in a false sense of reality. We did the best we could... but now I sure know a lot better.

H & I rarely talk anymore. Very rarely. But I hear tid bits from dds and I've been truly worried about him the past couple of weeks. I assume he's working a lot like always, but he's been really really low profile for the past month. He's seemed very depressed the past couple months, combined with a confrontation about his drinking in December. I don't see him much, but the couple times I've asked how he's doing he quickly replied he's fine... which leads me to - can someone remind me why I shouldn't do a temp check with H?

I've thought about it & would like to say 'I know it's easy to say you're fine and dismiss help from people that love you, but I truly want to know how you're doing and I'm here for you.' I think I can say that while still being fairly detached.

Basically H & I have no connection now. Haven't for many months. And it builds up a wall. I've been improving my life and am quite content most of the time. But I wonder if this wall will ever be scaled if I don't throw up a ladder first.

Opinions?

[Bunches]

Hey Reb, I haven't had time to read the old thread yet. Also, I'm not very experienced yet a DB'ing but it does sound a lifeline might be helpful. You said you are hearing things from D's...how often does he get to see them? Maybe times when everyone gets together 'for them' would be a possible? It might give you exposure that you don't make about the R.

I'm not good at this, so I'm sorry if I'm not much help.

[AnotherStander]

I've thought about it & would like to say 'I know it's easy to say you're fine and dismiss help from people that love you, but I truly want to know how you're doing and I'm here for you.' I think I can say that while still being fairly detached.

It's OK to say something to him, but don't phrase it that way because you're basically telling him that something is "wrong" with him and that will not go over well. Maybe something more like "Despite our situation I do still care very much for you and want you to know that I am here for you if you ever want to talk about how you feel or how things are going in your life."

Basically H & I have no connection now. Haven't for many months. And it builds up a wall.

The sitch didn't create the wall. Your H built the wall because he felt he needed to. Only he can take it down, and he's got to do that through his own soul-searching. When the WAS gets the freedom that they think they want and the LBS out of their life, they often discover a hard truth- they're STILL unhappy. Then they have to face the fact that perhaps the LBS is NOT the cause of their unhappiness. This may be why he seems more depressed, he's starting to realize that HE is why he's unhappy, not YOU. Resist the urge to rush in and "fix" him. He's got to figure this out on his own.

But I wonder if this wall will ever be scaled if I don't throw up a ladder first.

You can't climb over the wall. It comes down the same way it went up- one brick at a time. From the INSIDE.

[zew]

Don't want to hijack, but AS, I wanted to know if you think this can really work. Maybe others will comment for benefit of reb and me.

"Despite our situation I do still care very much for you and want you to know that I am here for you if you ever want to talk about how you feel or how things are going in your life."

I want to say this to my WAW, because she made a comment about OM "always listening to her as a person who had something to say." This isn't the first "you don't listen" I've heard, so I want to 180 that by shutting up, listening, validating and not trying to problem solve. So I want to put the offer out, one time only, with no expectations. However, I'm conflicted with not wanting to appear to be pressuring or invasive. My W is extremely hostile right now - she feels she is a "prisoner" in our house because she doesn't have the means to leave. I am trying very hard to give her space, largely through avoidance, but I still want to have as many 180s in place as possible. I want to avoid any setback if possible.

[labug]

Hey Reb, good to see you posing here.

Quick review: H moved out abruptly 19 months ago. We did mc for a few months last spring, but H made clear it was only to rebuild relationship with d18 & d16. Also did Retrouvaille last September, H still in mlc, no desire to work on relationship but he has noticed and commented frequently about me being a changed person. A year or less ago, ever comment or notice about changes would have been a firework in my brain hoping something would spark for him. Now it's an accepted reality and the marriage we had, the person I was seems so different. It's not a painful memory anymore, just a disbelief that half of my life was with H in a false sense of reality. We did the best we could... but now I sure know a lot better.

This sounds good. There are stages to this, as with everything in life, shock and awe > It was all my fault-I must change > it was all his fault-he must change > the truth is somewhere in the middle-I can only change me > I can't see myself not married > I see that my marriage wasn't as good as I liked to believe > I see that my marriage had good times and bad times and I have some wonderful memories > being not married has it's advantages > tho challenging, this has been a growth process that has helped me be in control of my life and has improved all my Rs.

I've thought about it & would like to say 'I know it's easy to say you're fine and dismiss help from people that love you, but I truly want to know how you're doing and I'm here for you.' I think I can say that while still being fairly detached.

Have you said this before? If not, you could say it. I wouldn't put words in in mouth or tell him how he feels.
Think hard about what "I'm here for you means" and ask yourself "am I, really?"

Basically H & I have no connection now. Haven't for many months. And it builds up a wall. I've been improving my life and am quite content most of the time. But I wonder if this wall will ever be scaled if I don't throw up a ladder first.

Yes, you do have connection, you're writing here about wanting to contact him.

Walls are the only way some people set boundaries. Respect his boundary and respect you by continuing to work on you. Moving through the stages of this (whatever those stages are) and not getting stuck is the key.

(((reb)))

[reb9597]

Thank you all for the comments. AS thanks for the insight about passing judgement with offering support, you're right, I don't want to accuse.

Labug, you've given me a lot to think about the past couple days, like always.

Have you said this before? If not, you could say it. I wouldn't put words in in mouth or tell him how he feels.
Think hard about what "I'm here for you means" and ask yourself "am I, really?"

What does this mean??? My initial reaction is, of course, I'm there for H. But after thinking about it for awhile, I don't think that's an honest reply. Sure I'm here for him in 'times of sickness and health', even today I would care for him at his bedside if needed.

But the underlying reality is that I'm here for him on my terms. I would do whatever I could to rebuild our marriage and I would do what I can to support his parenting. But I would not be there to help him escape any consequences of his actions. I would not help him financially, I would not help with legally, I would not support him if he hurt our daughters any more than he already has. I could listen to him talk about it and try to encourage him to straighten out his life - but again those are my terms, my definition of a healthy life or lifestyle. And if he came to me with a problem that was outside of my standard, no I wouldn't be there for him. That's really confusing! H's single lifestyle is a cakewalk, no responsibility, no obligation. And my gut tells me he tries desperately to convince himself he's happy with that. But d18 says he tells her how lonely he is and he's depressed. I can be there for that version of H because it puts me in a better, self sacrificing light. But it's clear that I am not here for H completely. AND what's also clear is that he probably knows this.

Is this tied to expectations? Or healthy boundaries? If I can't be self sacrificing enough to be there for big and small things, should I file for divorce and stop fooling myself?

Very thought provoking labug. And to tell you the truth it scares me a little. I'd like to have a mother theresa image about myself and my limits, but the reality is that I'm very nearly done. One thing could push me over the edge and take away my stand. I don't know for sure what that one thing is, but if I'm open to H and 'there for him no matter what' I may find out sooner rather than later. And maybe that's not really what I want.

So is it safer to not extend an invitation for sharing? Continue on & hope for nothing worse, get nothing better? Really thought provoking.

At the end of the day, I've worked hard for my boundaries and I like myself better with the idea of having them. I have not personally had to put many in place with H because of the no contact between us, but I think I could offer to be there for someone, including H. But if H were to ask for help outside my boundaries, I would and could now withdraw the offer of support. And I don't think that makes me insincere. But it does enlighten me to the fear I have about asking in the first place, because I may not like the answer. hmmm...

[labug]

Peeling back those layers is sometimes painful but worth it in the end.

I think by the number of very good questions you still have, it may be time to just sit a little longer.

H's single lifestyle is a cakewalk, no responsibility, no obligation. And my gut tells me he tries desperately to convince himself he's happy with that. But d18 says he tells her how lonely he is and he's depressed.

So does that sound like a cakewalk? Would you want to be in his skin?

If I can't be self sacrificing enough to be there for big and small things, should I file for divorce and stop fooling myself?

What are you fooling yourself about?

Loving your husband unconditionally doesn't require self-sacrifice, at least not as I see it. You can love him unconditionally, accepting him just as he is and not be married to him. I've read this: I can love you unconditionally but I don't have to unconditionally accept your actions.

Google one crafty mother to those who love an alcoholic

You're not to blame for his addiction. Take care of you.

[reb9597]

I did google that labug, thank you. And forwarded to my daughter. They have those joint aa/alanon speaker meetings once a month, I haven't been to one yet but I want to because there's a lot to the experience I don't fully understand.

Felt a little sting of rejection this morning. I saw H at d16's concert last night, spoke briefly, laughed a little, he initiated a hug when we left. All pretty casual. He texted about meeting for coffee this morning because he had some insurance stuff delivered to him that was mine. Easy conversation with nothing much personal. We made a plan to take care of taxes this week. He had just come from the gym and I complimented him, said he's looking good & it's really good to see him taking care of himself. He volunteered that he hasn't been drinking 'much' and the medication is really helping. I asked what kind of workouts he's doing and he describes training for a 12k in May. This man does not run... lol. The marathon is 6 hours away across the state, so my mind races to who's he doing it with?

These are all really great actions for h and I'm thrilled he's taking care of himself, he'll be a happier h and a better father. But the thought of him making plans and training with unknown people for future events that don't include me really brings out my insecurities. Not to mention that in a dream marriage we would have been doing these events together.

In the last few years that we were together I got really fit and into working out and doing mud runs and 5k, but I did it all on my own or with a friend after he left. Now he's doing the same activities in a parallel fashion. It's just strange and unfortunate that we can't share these activities we both enjoy.

Most of all, it's very easy for me to be compassionate and feel sorry for h thinking he's lonely and down. But I haven't had to face a healthy h in a long time and don't really know how to. It's scary for some reason. I'm able to see the real imbalance in our previous relationship and on the inside I'm cheering for his success but don't know how it relates to a relationship with me.

Which leads to -

What are you fooling yourself about?

Today I see that it's my insecurities speaking, but I think my standing efforts are me fooling myself that h will ever be interested in me as a marriage partner again. That it may be the more graceful option for my self esteem to bow out soon and end the marriage we had. With the evolution of this growth - I would have done anything at first, I wanted to rebuild our marriage and family. I still can't picture a future apart, especially in relation to our kids, but I accept now that our marriage is over and can't be rebuilt. A new marriage possibly, and I'd like to think with new, healthy players, but it doesn't seem likely to ever start. H is moving on... and running. And I still feel so threatened and insecure about his new life apart from our family.

I have more work to do... I want to be open to growth in myself and h and wouldn't want a relationship with the old h anyways. So why does hearing his progress make me feel so rejected? This is a me problem I need help understanding.

[labug]

I have more work to do... I want to be open to growth in myself and h and wouldn't want a relationship with the old h anyways. So why does hearing his progress make me feel so rejected? This is a me problem I need help understanding.

It's a quandary.

I remember feeling the same way about some of the things H was doing that he wouldn't or didn't do when we were together. I eventually realized I should be happy about it as it was a sign of growth in him. It seems you're getting to that place.

About fooling yourself, I think I understand. I turned the "staying M but still S" time into my personal growth space. I knew I wasn't ready for another R, I still had work to do within me, I knew another man might give me a temporary EGO-boost but I wan't ready for the work involved in having a real R. I was selfish. Staying M was a buffer.

Is staying married a problem for you or are you concerned about how other people might view you?

You're doing the work, sometimes it's just slow. ((( )))

[AnotherStander]

Don't want to hijack, but AS, I wanted to know if you think this can really work. Maybe others will comment for benefit of reb and me.

"Despite our situation I do still care very much for you and want you to know that I am here for you if you ever want to talk about how you feel or how things are going in your life."

I want to say this to my WAW, because she made a comment about OM "always listening to her as a person who had something to say."

Well I wasn't putting that out there as something every LBS should consider saying to their WAS, it was really just a tweaking of what Reb wanted to say to her H. The general DB"ing rule is to show your WAS changes through actions rather than words. They tend not to believe words, but they believe consistent, long-term actions. I think saying something like what I posted is not going to hurt your sitch, but it's not going to help either unless it is backed up by actions that are consistent with the words. IE, if you tell her that and then seek to really listen whenever she talks to you, that will get her attention. But tell her that and then check your phone or watch TV or gaze at the wall when she's talking and she'll think "same old H, tells me one thing and does another." Make sense?