WAW seems confused

[ManHope]

About the financials, I feel like if I get a big pay raise now all she will do is expedite her leaving. My window to DB while leaving together will be smaller

[ManHope]

FYI, we have enough to survive but not enough to work on paying off cards fast and little to savings.

I know if I battle my fear and turn around and get a big raise(so, do the opposite), she could even afford to get a part time job or stay at home for the summer with the kids while she lands her dream job (which she does have now) or she may have a change of heart and like to work part time and/or stay at home. That was her dream before you know. To be a stay home mom. Right now he hates the fact that she works too much and has little time for the kids. And i do have the time. Now.... She may take the opportunity and use it to leave faster or she may plainly deny my idea for her to spend time, choose to just work as he is and use the extra money to pay off stuff faster, hence, leaving faster and with more security.

[trc2009]

I can. Certainly. But what I am saying is that my response was to let her choose which day because I am not the one who is pushing separation.

She asked me again a few mins ago if I wanted the kids today or tomorrow and I told her "my choice is to spend time with my family 7 days a week, so I leave it up to you because you are the one pushing this" I now think it may not be the right thing to have said but I wanted her to know I am indifferent to the choice.

What I read in that^^ is "W, I still have no outside interests or friends.

= I'm NEEDY and INCOMPLETE WITHOUT YOU...(so I don't bring much to the table)

Manhope, why would you believe your answer was anything but an attempt to look like martyr and guilt her some more?

What have you CHANGED about you? Yes Yes, I know, "more time at home" but before hand your only outlet was work and home.

Now, your outlets are "work and home" but in different ratios. There has to be some CHANGE...change she can believe in.

Here's the "math" of it:

small incremental changes + sufficient time = change she can believe in

Surely there were hobbies or passions that you once were interested in?

This makes so much sense. There's nothing wrong with wanting to spend time with your family. You can't be faulted for that. And there's nothing wrong with putting increased energy into work. Again, you can't be faulted for that. But that's not GAL. That's doing what you've done before, only differently.

GAL is definitely hard. But you have to take it head on. There's no half-GAL. You can still be a good father and be good at your job.

I made my conscience choice to GAL on 2/10. I've hung out with friends that I don't hang out with as much as I like. I work out 3-4 times per week (something I hadn't done since before I met W). If the weather were nice, I'd be golfing 1-2 times per week (which I have been lucky to do once per month the last few years). I've gone to a sports bar after work that I know a lot of people to watch some basketball games (nothing wrong with that as long as drinking and OW doesn't become an issue) and get some dinner (on nights when I don't have the kids).

The best part? I put it ALL on me & my wife's debit card/checking account. I'm not spending an outrageous amount of money or anything, but I work hard and we usually have plenty of spending cash. I know she looks at the account. And now she knows that I'm GAL because she can see that I'm spending money at the gym, she knows I'm spending money at GNC, she knows that I just bought some new golf clubs, she knows that I've gone out with my best friend a few times, she knows that instead of going to my parents after work when she has the kids and sobbing on my dinner plate, I'm going to a local sports bar to watch some basketball and eat some chicken wings. And I'm having a GREAT TIME DOING IT! And I know she notices because she has asked me about some of it. I'm not trying to rub it in her face. I'm just doing exactly what I would have done BEFORE I met her.

And on nights I have our children, I'm the best that I've ever been as a father. I make every second count. Not because I'm trying to save my marriage. But because I went from being with them 7 days/week, 52 weeks/year to 3-4 days/week, 52 weeks/year. When I go more than 48 hours without seeing them, I actually get physically ill. I hate every second of it. BUT, it's GAL that's helped me cope with that.

Didn't mean to make that lengthy but 25 is so right. Doing what you did before only in a different manner is not "change she can believe in." That's just smoke & mirrors.

[paul19510]

One small input...great job on GAL..if you actually thought that putting this stuff on you debit card was going to prove your point to W that you GAL you're not all the way there yet. Keep doing stuff but don't worry about if she'll see that you did it .....she'll see it if you are enjoying yourself and furthermore, you will be enjoying yourself so it won't matter! That's the point of GAL. Its not a game where you're trying to get her to see and respond....you're doing great..just keep that in mind. Do it to feel better not to win her back. You might not...but at least you'll feel better.

[trc2009]

Paul, I agree with that to an extent. Fortunately, I'm not doing anything different than I did before. We only have one checking account and one credit card. We rarely use the credit card unless it's a major item so 98% of the time we spend money, it's on the joint account. If I was doing it SIMPLY to make a point, then obviously that would be wrong. But she clearly notices. Sadly, it is nice to have a little bit of freedom. As much as I want to save my marriage, I would have had to go 5 rounds with her if I wanted to spend several hundred dollars on a set of golf clubs. I needed a new set badly and it was nice to just be able to go do it and not have to worry about her.

If we couldn't afford it then I'd feel bad. But we can and it was kind of fun to just go get something I need and want without an hour long coversation about whether or not it's necessary.

[paul19510]

I understand. Its more thst you words seemed like you wanted her to noticenit. I don't mewn find or use other funding. Just try to realze when you may be looking over your shoulder for W. Thas all. You're doing great.

[trc2009]

I understand. Its more thst you words seemed like you wanted her to noticenit. I don't mewn find or use other funding. Just try to realze when you may be looking over your shoulder for W. Thas all. You're doing great.

Maybe I am a little bit. But that isn't my intention for sure. I just don't have any other checking accounts!

[25yearsmlc]

About the financials, I feel like if I get a big pay raise now all she will do is expedite her leaving. My window to DB while leaving together will be smaller

Being a good provider IS a good, attractive thing. I don't think you realize that.
MANY women report staying in an unhappy marriage, because their h's were good providers and good dads. No one leaves a marriage BECAUSE the partner earns a lot of money...

Are you saying "we're too poor to divorce" and thinking that is a long term solution? B/C I don't agree with that at all. I understand it, but I don't agree.

If you think about men/women at a biological level, or use the "caveman" theory,
you can see that a woman (especially if she has children) SHE needs and wants to know that when her mate leaves the 'cave', he'll come back, and he'll return with some meat or berries or other Food...

HE wants to know she'll keep the fire going, the children fed & will welcome him home upon his return...she'll prepare what he brings home. HE will check into the scary noises at night, and he'll fight the sabertooth tiger if it tries to come inside the cave, SHE will help him, and watch his back.


I say this^^ b/c it's the "Best Mate" theory, that has some biological science in it.

Also, In a survey of what spouses want in their partners, men said the thing they most valued in a mate was attractiveness, and peace in the home.

Women said they most valued "Fidelity & Security" in their partners.

Fidelity is a fairly obvious one, but in addition to being sexually faithful, it means sticking up for your w when someone criticizes her, even your own family (especially your own family).

"Security" means physical & financial safety. Stability...

A roof over her & her kids' heads, food on the table, is key to this. There are women to go way too far with this and are materialistic.

For a woman at a gut level, constantly worrying how you'll provide for your kids, & having a h who is chronically underemployed or in debt, or who gambles a lot, or spends too much, just eats away at her.

Read Sandi's earliest posts about how she felt in her long term marriage, with a h whom she loved.

But after He'd been unemployed for so long She had to get another job to put food on the table, & had a wealthy OM lurking in the background, well, she was frightened and confused, and felt lost.


You have a lot of issues, but your take on finances is an odd one to me. If you were INSIDE Divorce proceedings, I could see your approach better, strategically. But your present approach is almost like you are heading that way and maybe setting it up to happen.

Food for thought.

[ManHope]

I see your point about financials. This makes sense.

Now, if you are familiar with my post about the friends she made while she was still working with me http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2430843#Post2430843

She considers the two girls that were working with me like family now. They are both around 23 y old and both oppose us getting back. My W is 33.

Now, she just told me one of the girls is having a bday and she will be having a slumber party this saturday with her two girls. She has never done this. On all 13 years she has been focused on our family, not regressing as if she was 20 back again. Her language and behavior is changing as she is trying to act like them (so it seems). She does have friends who are happily married and her age but does not frequent them often and I've seen she acting completely different around her girlfriends who are around our age. Thoughts?

I don't feel good acting like a babysitter so she can leave the whole night.

Additionally, the same OM she was friendly back in Jan 2013 is back. I noticed she is texting him quite a bit. Not romantic, but a lot of friendly communication. To add things up, both those girls do like the OM. He is 23! -- This guy lives 1.5 hrs from were we are and posts on FB being out with girls all the time. So, I don't know if he is just leading her on by responding (and she is of course the one initiating texts) or he is just seeing an opportunity because of our situation. BTW, the OM used to work for me and knows me. I even contemplated talking to him since they aren't romantic or anything but my gut feeling tells me not to do anything.

[ManHope]

If it matters, of the two girls, one lives with her boyfriend who is about 22 and the other lady is married with a small child. Also, my W does not drink and does not like bar scenes. If it matters.