own buz 23:mediation to reconcilliation, PATIENCE!

[PatientMan]

and to add, do not acknowledge that she exists to myself either, just to clear that up!

Please forgive me, but I am at one of my D's functions and can't elaborate much. To be clear, she does not exist AT ALL. Yes, that means to you, not conditionally based on your H.

SHE DOES NOT EXIST!

You can't think about or waste any mental energy on someone who does not exist. Clear?

BBL,

-PM

[MrBond]

You're not getting it.

I'm reacting to what YOU wrote. You're still not seeing other people's POV. The way your wrote it came off as rude. But rather than trying to understand it, you fight back. That's the whole problem with you and your situation.

"Have you not read my threads? I am quite polite. Don't assume."

I didn't ASSUME. Go back and read your post again in an objective way.

"Not rude or insulting."

Again, that's YOUR perception. However to those who you are directing your comments to, they are rude and insulting.

"I feel that you in particular Bond, give me hard lessons to change myself (and I am!), however I want YOUR opinion on my relationship... and I feel you keep avoiding it."

Are you serious? I spend more time on your thread than anyone else's here. I've given you my opinions time and time again. How dare you say I avoid it? They are just things that you don't want to hear or follow through with.

"All you do is tell me what I am doing wrong with myself. Not offering suggestions on how to repair or some ideas to think about."

You've got to be kidding me. I'm done. Good luck.

[makingmagic]

OK Bond... thanks... I dont think you understand what I am asking for (from you). I am not denying that you havent given me advice and alot of your time (for that I am thankful)... I am wanting to hear and follow through with what you suggest.... and I am. But the stuff PM is offering is what I thought you were trying to offer a few threads ago. Its a different approach. Look at PM's message. That's what I am wanting to hear ... from you!


Bond: "I will repeat what everyone has told you. Come up with your OWN plan of action, don't second guess yourself and just do it and live with the consequences.... I feel that I did do that, then you challenged me on it and said I wasn't doing the right thing. I feel I cannot do anything right by you.

>>>>>hmmmm... I picked a long term bf who I spent a long time trying to please. I also noted recently that I had picked a friend, who I was trying to please. Now, possibly you too.

I need to think.


If you are done. Sorry if I have frustrated you. Thanks for all you have offered.

[makingmagic]

Journalling:

Went into work today. H assumed and purchased coffee for us. Therefore, I hopped in his vehicle. We sat and drank. He stated that he ran into a female friend that works occassionally for us. She mentioned her moms house will be going up for sale. He mentioned it might be a suggestion for a place for me, to save real estate fees.... not sure what he is thinking this for? I would need to know my financial situation first before I consider a new purchase.

We then worked on shovelling the ice around our vehicles. I hurt myself. He made a comment along the lines that he had wine to offer. It didn't make sense. We got the vehicle out of the ice, then said our quick "byes".

Yes, my expecations were up. I was hoping he would somehow make an offering of getting together.

A few hours later, I get a text:

H: Good team work getting the vehicle out... hope your hand is feeling better... have a good nite.

Me: (immediately) Hi. its actaully really sore. Tx for asking.

an hour or so later

H: Red wine from client may help... well, at least we got the vehicle out of the ice.

Me: (wasn't sure I should reply. He wasn't asking a question but didn't want to be rude and not respond ...so an hour later)...

Note: The other day when the client first gave one bottle of wine, he made the reference that he would like to try it too. Likely figuring that I would jump on that and invite him.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hi PM... I will wait for your return.

When you suggest that she doesn't exist, does that mean that my boundary is void of her too? I don't think you are suggesting that. I did not think of her this evening. Actually I kinda don't think much of her anyway. But, I will try to remove her completely from my life. I also try not to think about him. But then oddly, thats when I receive a random text. Happened twice tonight! No expectations = possible surprizes.

[MrBond]

You just insulted me again.

"OK Bond... thanks... I dont think you understand what I am asking for (from you)."

I know perfectly well what you are asking for and I've given you advice and EXACT actions on what to do, time and time again.

"I am wanting to hear and follow through with what you suggest.... and I am."

I did many times.

"But the stuff PM is offering is what I thought you were trying to offer a few threads ago. Its a different approach. Look at PM's message. That's what I am wanting to hear ... from you!"

I am not PM. YOU cannot make someone be like someone else. Don't you get it by now? You can't control how someone responds back to you. Go back and read the post I said was insulting. Go through it line by line as if you were a total stranger. You don't even make an effort to understand. You only TRY to understand the things that you want to. You're extremely selective and controlling about what you will accept in people's advice.

"I feel that I did do that, then you challenged me on it and said I wasn't doing the right thing. I feel I cannot do anything right by you."

You don't have anything to prove to me. The issue was that you kept and continue to fall onto your old habits.

In fact, I cringed when I read your last posting about your interactions with your H. You consistently write as if he had ulterior motives. He TOLD you that coffee was a good way to start for him to open up. But you acted like "I'm not falling for that trick again". Because for some reason you don't want to open yourself to him. If you were strong enough, you would just tell him "sure, coffee sounds great" without expectations. And that's what you have ... expectations or think that he's being sneaky. Go back and read all of your threads for God's sake. He's told you exactly what he wants and needs. If you don't want to hear it, then leave. He's not your husband, he's a boyfriend. Just walk away.

You keep shutting the door on him when he offers you positives to shield your own poor self esteem. You haven't work on your SELF-ESTEEM. All you're doing is deflecting things so you don't get hurt. IT'S NOT THE SAME.

[makingmagic]

Let me re-word myself, not to insult.

I am unable to express what I am trying to say to you. (responsibility):

In January you wrote:

"Actually living what you are acting is probably going to be the most compassionate thing you can do for him. I do know exactly what you should do to attract him back. But all that doesn't matter if you haven't even changed yourself in the first place. I wouldn't want to subject him to that."

I have been super compassionate towards him, I have allowed him to talk to me during "cofee time". I have allowed his comfort and connection visits over costco and train trips. I do my best to listen (although I would like to be better). I feel that if I enable his friendship with OW than he will not be in any hurry to have to make a choice.

I struggle with this, as many of you know.

Some of you say maintain the boundary and some say, allow the friendship and follow his lead.... I am doing both. Probably not a good idea!

Bond, when you suggest that you know EXACTLY what I should do to attract him back. THIS is what I am wanting to hear. I am ready to listen. The only piece of advice on this "attraction" I recall, is you suggesting slight touches. I have been doing this.

You encourage me to not require validation, to stand behind my own decision... when I made the decision to have a boundary.. you DID challenge me on it. How is that falling back on an old habit? I invite you to explain... I am listening.

I am not trying to prove anything to you. I ask that you start to believe that I have been listening and acting on what you suggest.

Here is where you are wrong Bond. You are assuming again that I am believing that I am being tricked. I am not. I also do NOT believe that he has ulterior motivess. So, stop commenting and suggesting and basing your advice believing that I am. I have been having these coffee times with him. Although, it feels like I am going against the boundary that I made. I have heard that he wants coffee time. Light social time, non-committal with me to keep connected. He has said this from day one... That his fears are about us not keeping a friendship and getting along, at the very least. So, I have essentially enabled it over the last year on his terms. He has also told me that the part of deep intimacy that he loved was the fact that I would reach out when he was conflicted/hurt/angry, etc... And thats who "I" was for 20 years. I was the pursuer when he would distance. It was my "job" to pull us together. Am I being massaged to do this now? Are you suggesting that I do what I always do and "fix" this? Because in the beginning months after BD, when I would try... he would reject me. He would pull away. He made it very clear that he did not want me. I fear feeling like that again.

How am I shutting the door Bond? whats not the same? Please explain further?

So the part about self-esteem is probably true. I wouldn't call what I am doing deflecting, but probably more like protecting myself now. I was rejected for so long. I need to know that HE wants ME. I need to see his action.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

also, many of you suggested coffee was just business coffee. 2 co-workers having coffee. Turns out it isn't. I am not looking to be right, but for my situation to be understood. I think that some of my thoughts and concerns about what is going on ...is actually true.

[MrBond]

"THIS is what I am wanting to hear. I am ready to listen. The only piece of advice on this "attraction" I recall, is you suggesting slight touches."

BS. I've told you many times how to "attract" him. You just don't know how to take in the message. I told you to listen and become a safe place for him to open up. THAT is one part of attraction. Just because I literally don't say the word "attraction", at this point you should be smart enough to know that's what it means.

"You encourage me to not require validation, to stand behind my own decision... when I made the decision to have a boundary.. you DID challenge me on it."

I NEVER challenged you on standing behind your own decision. The issue was that you were making the wrong decisions that were pushing him away. AND that's not what I referred to by you falling back on old habits. You're mixing up all of the messages. The sheer volume of your questions is beginning to get mixed up in your head. You CONSTANTLY ask for help from EVERYONE and are getting things mixed up.

"I am not trying to prove anything to you. I ask that you start to believe that I have been listening and acting on what you suggest."

You haven't and I don't need to "start believing" anything. That's more control on your part.

"Here is where you are wrong Bond. You are assuming again that I am believing that I am being tricked. I am not. "

Really? You just wrote this the other day. "Note: The other day when the client first gave one bottle of wine, he made the reference that he would like to try it too. Likely figuring that I would jump on that and invite him. " That's all mindreading and you think he is planning something. You've done this from day one.

You're going to have to learn to communicate better on here. Whatever happened to repeating what someone commented to you so that you "understand"?

[makingmagic]

"THIS is what I am wanting to hear. I am ready to listen. The only piece of advice on this "attraction" I recall, is you suggesting slight touches."

BS. I've told you many times how to "attract" him. You just don't know how to take in the message. I told you to listen and become a safe place for him to open up. THAT is one part of attraction. Just because I literally don't say the word "attraction", at this point you should be smart enough to know that's what it means..... "smart enough", is an insult ... I am not a mind reader for you either! Be more clear

"You encourage me to not require validation, to stand behind my own decision... when I made the decision to have a boundary.. you DID challenge me on it."

I NEVER challenged you on standing behind your own decision. The issue was that you were making the wrong decisions by who's definition.. Please see proceeding post that were pushing him away how was I pushing him away, what decicisions are pushing him away? . AND that's not what I referred to by you falling back on old habits. You're mixing up all of the messages. Yes, the messages are mixed up. Each poster has their own view The sheer volume of your questions is beginning to get mixed up in your head. You CONSTANTLY ask for help from EVERYONE and are getting things mixed up. I am not CONSTANTLY asking from ANYONE.. I have been only journalling my confused thoughts. I appreciate ALL the comments/advice.color]

"I am not trying to prove anything to you. I ask that you start to believe that I have been listening and acting on what you suggest."

You haven't and I don't need to "start believing" anything. That's more control on your part. [color:#00CCCC] I dont know what else to say here. I know that I listen and act on your suggestions. If you dont see it.. oh well

"Here is where you are wrong Bond. You are assuming again that I am believing that I am being tricked. I am not. "

Really? You just wrote this the other day. "Note: The other day when the client first gave one bottle of wine, he made the reference that he would like to try it too. Likely figuring that I would jump on that and invite him. " That's all mindreading and you think he is planning something. You've done this from day one. I am suggesting here that it is mindreading, but not tricking. There is a difference. I am suggesting that he and I both know my typical old behaviour, mine is to pursue. I did not pursue when he leaned on wanting to try the wine. I opted to let it go.

You're going to have to learn to communicate better on here. Whatever happened to repeating what someone commented to you so that you "understand"? I have, just not all the time. Please see following post.

[makingmagic]

I have been spending some time reviewing old threads. It seems as though each of you have your own opinion. Not ONE Same group opinion as implied.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Advice from Job:

What he is saying and doing right now is mass confusion and you, the former partner in the relationship, need to step way back and let him flounder. He's a grown man and he needs to figure things out. The more he talks to you about his feelings for you, the longer he can keep you on the hook.
... this says to me. Distance yourself to have protection for self from his confusion. Give him space. Do not allow him to reel me in with his "feelings". I need to see "action".

Mrbond's advice:

But you're not detaching to let things go and live your life. You're extremely insecure and afraid right now.IMHO, I really think your H is being honest and not trying to "protect" himeself or take advantage of you. I think like most people in MLC, he's confused and taking his time sorting things out because non-confrontation or non-conflict is what he's looking for..
... I agree totally with the non-conflict statement. This suggests for me to attract him back, by ways of listening to him, be his comfort to open up. Allow coffee/comfort time. Give him space and listen to him.


KenF advice:

if he insists on relationship talks, remind him he's a grown man and you'll talk about your relationship only after he's figured out what he wants, and that you have no interest in being involved with his confusion. and then leave it at that, end the conversation. show some self respect.
... this suggests to me, to present a boundary. No coffee/R talks. No connection time.

Advina's advice:

If it were me, I'd tell him: I'm not confused. You broke up with me a year ago. For a year you've acted like we're not together. You moved me out of your home. Although that is not what I wanted, you have been very clear. If you're interested in reconciling, you know where to find me. Until then, we're business partners.
... this suggests to me to leave him alone. Don't listen to his confused discussions. Do not have coffee/connection time with him.

Sandi's advice:
You don't give him comfort and connection stuff. You let him go. You let go of all of it. Get out of the business partnership with him..... This suggests that I do not allow coffee/connections time. Continue to divide assets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I appreciate ALL the DIFFERENT view points. You each make excellent points that I am considering. These are not at all one viewpoint.

Please feel free to correct me if I have misinterpreted your view point.

I need to detach more...

[makingmagic]

OK... WOW... he was just here... spent at least 3 hours discussing possible relationship reconcilliation. Started off wtih him admitting that he wanted to text last night to meet for a beer. Possible joint purchase and ownership of another house. He can't wrap his head around it for a few years.

I did hear myself getting pushy. I backed off when I realized I was doing this ...

Hmmm...

Discussed hugging, and that he has wanted to reach out ~ but just didn't.

until .... He was getting ready to leave.

Next thing ya know I was sitting on the edge of my kitchen counter, and I pulled him in, wrapped my legs around him... like I used to do... He accepted my advances. He put his arms around my waist. I put my hand under his shirt, while we hugged. So nice to feel his skin. I held back from kissing him.

He said he was glad that he came over this afternoon.