living with WAW who hasn't walked yet

[nit84]

zew,

You are right our sitches are pretty similar. It stinks but honestly I let my W bring up the conversation and make it about her. I don't really offer any excitement or added feelings that I may have about her life. Except empathy when she is bummed or has a problem then I let her know that Im listening and understanding why she feels the way she does.

if she continues to talk I may add something that is pertaining to my life but that is rare.

Keep it up, even though my W retreats to her own space I just keep up the PMA because that way if she catches me off guard I already am thinking positive thoughts and hopefully she sees this.

I do this for ME not her. It is somewhat contagious I have found out over the last two weeks we have had more interaction then in the past months.

I believe this is because she is seeing that we can talk to each other and when we do it doesn't turn into a R or M talk. This is a big 180 because I am by nature a "fixer"

[zew]

Had another pleasant conversation at dinner tonight with W about her work today. Must have lasted all of 10 minutes. Progress, I guess, in that she is able to speak to me rationally for that duration. I notice that I have to choose my words carefully, because she is slightly tense and ready to pounce if she interprets anything as even slightly critical.

I am learning not to challenge. Personally, I have always enjoyed having my ideas challenged -- defending your position helps you to hone in on what you really believe and why. My wife does NOT like challenge, and takes it as invalidation. 18 years later, I'm figuring this out.

Then after dinner, she disappeared off to our bedroom and closed the door (the new normal), so I guess all is well.

[nit84]

zew,

That is exactly how my convo about money went with my W, as you know from my thread.

When you are talking in truths and realities I guess the WAW just looks for an opening to pounce. It is their way of defending their position to themselves IMHO.

That is what happened and I just validated. I think it worked but she still was unhappy. Can't control that.

In the afternoon she did text me to say the door was left unlocked. Not knowing if it was me who left it that way I responded I will watch that.

So I guess she may have become less angry as the day went on. I fully did not expect to hear anything from her till she returns home from her weekend away.

Thanks again for the 2x4 yesterday, it helped me get off the rollercoaster.

[zew]

When I look at my W now, I don't see my W at all. I see the OM's mistress. She just happens to live here, sleep in my bed, and I pay all her bills. My feelings range from neutral to contempt.
In some ways, it's making it easier to not pursue and to detach, because I just don't want to be involved with whatever she is now. She seems consumed by hatred whenever in my presence, and she's not as good at suppressing that as she might think. Some of that spills over to D12.

So now, I guess I treat it more as an experiment to see if my changes have any impact on this person; whether I would ever want to reconnect with whatever she becomes is just too full of assumptions to even be considered now. I don't dream of R anymore.
Right now, I stand by because that's what I vowed to do, and at least I still value my word. And if this turns out to be a phase rather than a permanent state, I will have proven my endurance and commitment, if only to myself and kids.
It's also an exercise for me to prove that I can be kind to someone who continues to disrespect me daily in the most personal way. I absolutely hate this exercise.

And now I GAL like I mean it. For reasons I still haven't figured out, I had completely relinquished control of my social life to her, perhaps because I'm a natural introvert and she's a natural extrovert, but she has completely shut me off now, and disparaged me with at least some of those people.
It's actually been quite liberating to socialize without subordinating to her.

And I did a quick back of the envelope calculation. If I compare her spending to child support, I think I'll come out ahead on cashflow in a D. Don't get me wrong, I still think D is a horrible thing that codifies problems rather than solving them, but I fear it less each day.

Looking for a vet to 2x4 me here if my thinking on any aspect of this is taking a counter productive turn, please.

[nit84]

zew,

You and I think alike in a lot of ways. One of the differences is I am only paying half of the bills and none of W expenses anymore.

She had a job, passed up on a job, could get a job in a different line of work if she really desired to.

I have no sympathy in that regard for my W. She has always valued having a job I believe. Although, a couple of times early in the M her and her Mom did mention a couple of times that when we have kids it would be nice because she would be home.

I always said that we really need 2 incomes to live like we desired and 1 income, especially at the time, was not enough to do that.

Subconsciously, maybe them saying that affected my thinking and led to the assumption by some people that I never wanted kids.

This past year was my best ever money wise and W was only there for half of it. We now could afford for her to stay home with kids. It is not why I asked her to start a family back in May but seeing what I made this past year I know that everything would work out.

I also am a man of my word when it comes to M and M vows that is why I am standing.

Like you I am hoping this is just a phase and by working on myself during her journey it will make things easier either way down the road.

I am sorry that I didn't work on myself sooner but you have to start somewhere and that is what you and I have done.

I'm not sure how to put this and if it will sound strange or not but for me personally this has been an eye-opening experience. I now have more knowledge about myself I love myself now and kinda feel bad for my W in a way.

While she is out possibly living a fantasy that she believes is reality and way better than M with me, which is her right, she is missing out on the person she fell in love enough to M, improving in ways even he didn't think were possible just 8 Months ago.

It sounds to me as if you are taking some if not all of the power back in your sitch. That's a great feeling I bet!

[zew]

W initiated conversation at dinner tonight! Started talking about how she is sure she made a good choice in signing with the company she did. I stopped eating, looked straight into her eyes and agreed with everything she said. Sympathized with her for how stressful the onboarding process was.
Of course it all means nothing; it was remarkable only in its rarity.

Going out GALing tomorrow night with a new group. Totally out of the box for me, and I am SO looking forward to getting out of the house for a little levity.

[Barrybran]

I hope I'm not speaking out of place but I feel your positive interaction means a lot. Sure it's one conversation but as the quote goes "a journey of a thousand miles begins with one step." Let's hope the conversations become more regular.

[zew]

W just called asking for help with her new email account. Told her I'd fix it tonight when I got home. Call over. Nearly froze my ear off.
I don't think we spoke a word yesterday. (we live together)

On the other hand, I went out to a fine GAL event last night and met a bunch of new people. Interesting bunch, and I had fun, but many of them have it far worse off than I do. Made me feel my M problems were pretty insignificant compared to what some of them face day to day.
I have been perfectly happy not expanding my circle of friends without W's lead for far too long, so this meeting new people stuff is challenging me. There was certainly a dependency on W there. Fortunately, I like a good challenge, and now that I'm not hinging everything on W, I have the time for it. This is making me look inside a bunch at what I need in order to be happy besides W and family and solitary hobbies. I've always been pretty self sufficient, and that can come across as not being interested in others, which is not how I feel at all. My goal is to change that perception.
Any links to the master GAL list?

[zew]

Found out W and OM are back in contact. They both plan to D, then M and live happily ever after.

W and I still sleep in same bed, she hasn't moved to guest room or suggested that I move. I have thoroughly detached - she's like a tenant. She pretty much finds another room to hide in when I come home leaving me with the kids and their homework, so I'm getting lots of kid time, which is good.

I am still the sole earner, and have sole access to all finances. She just started a commission based job, so she can't leave yet, and I believe that's the only thing preventing her from filing. I showed her the budget, and I pay a fixed amount on her credit card each month, which covers food and household expenses for all of us, and some extra that's she's using to cover her startup expenses.

I am LRT and detached. I'm working out and picking up a couple of GAL events outside of the house each week to build up my friend base, and to increase time W and I aren't together. I've increased acts of service around the house, consistent for the last 2 months. I'm attentive if and when she ever converses.

I see no change in W at all. She's got an escape plan in her head, and appears to be sticking to it. Save her earnings until she can go. She's becoming more independent every day (which I have to say is very attractive to me).

I just can't help but feel that I'm enabling this whole thing - I mean, she is cake eating now big time. The only levers I seem to have are:
1) control of finances - I could make things painful, but that would be counterproductive. She's going to peg that card out in a month or two anyway, so I know this issue will come back on its own.
2) I could file, which would make things painful, but that would be counterproductive, so that's out.
3) I could open my mouth, but that would be counterproductive. Ha, ha, not going there again.
4) I can just keep detached and GALing and working on me and my future, and maybe something will change, maybe it won't.

It just appears to me that the status quo will allow her to cake eat, use me as plan B, and to not have any consequences for any of her actions until such time as she feels financially independent enough to walk, and only then will reality strike.

This is the doormat vs patient man dilemma, I guess. I can keep my ego in check - patience has always been a strength.

Many people here are already S, or D is filed, so in that sense, my sitch seems somewhat unique. I mean, neither of us has even said the word D yet, although it is clear to me. And it's hard to tell whether being together at home each day is a help because she can see any change I might make over time, or a hindrance because there is no impact of separation.

I just don't want to squander this pre-filing, pre-walk period, and wonder if anyone has any suggestions as to how I could better use it.

[zew]

Looking for opinions:

I'm going out GALing to dinner and wine tasting tonight. The question: ring on or ring off.

Make no mistake, I am committed to staying M, and I am not looking for affirmation or ANYTHING; got enough trouble right now.

It's just a matter of the kind of questions I get. Last time, with ring, it was "Where's your wife?", which was kind of uncomfortable, and some people may have just steered clear of the ring.

I wonder if it would just be simpler to have people assume single, and not ask questions that might be touchy.