Still Together & Trying To Work It Out!

[Azagtoth]

So, just an update; any comments welcome. This will be a long one as I sort out some things our therapist discussed and what she recommended for me to do with wife.

During my IC with our therapist, we talked about a few things and whether or not the wife and I should talk about things at home. I haven't pursued any R talks unless wife brings it up first. Therapist told me that we should not wait to talk about things only during session. She will discuss and give solutions to issues with us, but she actually encourages us to talk at home together, whenever comfortable, to get us used to communicating, discussing our issues calmly, and allow us to work through things together. When these discussions happen, I should NOT apply pressure and just speak of things "matter of fact" and propose them as ides to think about. This is somewhat against the DB principles, but a couple of you said to go with & follow what the therapist says to guide us.

One of the things our therapist agreed on was the distance & pursuit / push & pull dynamic in our marriage. This was brought up after I had been reading Sandi2 & Smartcookie's threads and they talked about "role-reversal" in one of them. This is exactly what has happened as with some of the sitch's I have read. My wife was the pursuer and I was the distancer. I started noticing she wasn't pursuing anymore so I confronted which led to the BD. From that point, I started pursuing & she distanced. After I read that, a light bulb went off. I text my therapist on this and told her that, in my opinion, until the distancing stops, we can't make any progress. The therapist agreed and said when the opportunity arises, to offer that observation as something to think about; make it clear I am not pressuring her, but propose it as what it is and it is a marriage dynamic that would need to change for progress; obviously when wife was ready. She said to continue to exercise lots of PATIENCE; break off the conversation if wife starts to get uncomfortable!

The opportunity for conversation finally happened. I was reading one of the eBooks I had purchased early on (not DR/DB) that talks about many things discussed in MC/IC; among them was distance & pursuit and interdependency in healthy marriage versus co-dependence / independence. Wife knew I had this book before and expressed interest in it. I offered to share it with her and she accepted. I had told her that some of the concepts in the book were in-line with what had been discussed in MC/IC. She was about half way through it; (it's a hard read at times); and she finally asked how the book compared to things we/I had discussed with therapist.

Before we discussed anything I made it very clear that nothing we were about to discuss was to pressure her; I would simply share what the therapist and I had talked about and would offer it as ideas she could think about on her own and discuss in IC if SHE felt it was appropriate.

- I explained the distance & pursuit dynamics; how they had been throughout our marriage and how they were now with role-reversal. I compared it to the example in the book. I told her about the discussion with our therapist and how we would remain stagnant until distancing stops and joint steps towards a solution(s). Wife thought about it for a minute and agreed she could see what was happening and yes, we couldn't make progress that way. I reaffirmed this was just something to be aware of; take HER own time to think about it, do what SHE felt was right for her; discuss in IC if SHE felt it was appropriate!

- Next, we talked about what a healthy relationship was. This question was proposed to wife in IC and wife shared with me that we were to think about that for a future session. As mentioned previously, I had already had a positive discussion on that topic with the therapist. Since it was mentioned in the book, I offered what was discussed; about interdependency; being committed to each other in the marriage but still being ourselves and supporting each other in positive ways. Allowing each other to pursue individual goals & happiness while still sharing ourselves with each other. Certain needs (intimate / emotional or otherwise) would be met with each other, but NOT ALL needs could be met in this way. This is where our own interests and happiness come into play. It's one of those things I "get" but difficult to articulate, but she appeared to respond positively to it. Bottom, line; we support and share with each other, but we don't hold each other back. We won't always agree on everything, but that's healthy too!

- Next thing that came up was her feelings of "in-love"; how she wasn't "feeling it" and wasn't sure if they would ever come back. This wasn't really a topic I wanted to breach; I understand it, but not something I can articulate of felt comfortable trying to explain. So, I kind of reminded her of a couple things the therapist asked her to think about:"What is the difference between the initial 'in-love' feeling at the beginning of the relationship versus what it is in an LTR?" and "Is love a feeling / emotion or an an act/action?". Wife agreed they were both, however, in her opinion, you can't show or have love unless you "feel" it already. So, I offered what I had discussed with our therapist. When you fall "in-love" with someone, it just doesn't happen out of the blue. Sure, there is an initial attraction, but, the feelings arise over the course of "showing" interest & acts of love to one another. This is where the action comes in; one shows or express acts of love / caring which is then received and reciprocated back. So yes, they are both, but it initially starts with the giving in order to receive. That doesn't mean we won't have those "romantic" & "passionate" moments, but long term, it's more of unconditional love by choosing to commit, support & love each other through giving to each other. Of course she stated that I am doing all those things but she isn't "feeling" it and doesn't have the urge to reciprocate. To this I reaffirmed what had already discussed in session with our therapist; wife has a wall up. That wall was used to protect her from the negativity and neglect and force numbness. That same wall of protection is what keeps her from opening up to receiving & reciprocating those feelings. At this point, I kind of smiled and jokingly said "Ya know, I have no doubt you reinforced that wall a bit; can't allow any positives to break through now can we?" We both laughed at this and she confirmed that she was on guard hard in the beginning. I re-affirmed it's understandable; this was something SHE had to look at; only SHE can take that wall down (same thing therapist already told her), I can't do it, but I was there to SUPPORT HER when SHE was ready.

Ironically, at this point, she brought up her switch back in in December and admitted she decided to let things just "happen" and go with what she "felt" at the moment. She confirmed those were her feelings/emotions coming out (nothing was faked or forced). She couldn't articulate or understand at the time why she pulled back, but now she realized it was the "look in my eyes" when I picked her up from the airport; she believed the look and the way I openly greeted her that I thought everything was "fixed" and her guard went back up and she had to push me away so I knew things weren't fixed yet. This is exactly what AnotherStander quoted for me from Accuray previously in this thread about them running "Hot & Cold". I validated; told her I understood and if she felt she wasn't ready/safe yet, she should pull back. I did not let that bother me; this is a long process and I would support her need for space any time she needed it. She said this is partly why she has distanced me so hard this time; she is afraid of sending "mixed-signals" (hate that term too)! Sometimes she wants to be close to me and then will feel the need for space; she is afraid I will expect more if she does this and doesn't want to confuse or hurt me. I validated this and told her I understand and assured her I would hold no expectations and accept any closeness she offered at face value and enjoy her company as it was. I told her she was welcome to get close and pull back as she needed; she was welcome to verbalize this and I would take no offense; I would never pressure and accept things for what they are. However, it was something SHE needed to think about and do what was comfortable for HER!

That pretty much ended the discussion. I decided that was enough; actually more than I wanted to discuss but I just let it flow for a bit. I thanked her for her time and conversation and I appreciated her honesty. She brought up the fact about how nice I had been through all of this (she stated this before; didn't understand why and felt I should hate her & not love her anymore). I simply reaffirmed that was my CHOICE; I CHOSE to continue to care (stayed away from the word "love") for her because I do; the way she feels or doesn't feel DOES NOT affect my feelings! I reaffirmed that I appreciated everything she has ever done for me, our kids and the marriage. She is a very good, loving & caring mother and irrelevant of the current situation, she was still a great woman & wife!

She stated she liked our therapist, but wasn't sure if she/we were getting enough from the sessions. I told her that for me personally, I got more from the IC sessions; I understand things can get tense in MC and hard to say. (note: I have done more IC than wife due to my work / availability being more flexible). Wife stated she might need to have some IC sessions before our next MC session. I told her to do what SHE felt was best for HER.

So, having zero expectations, I just threw things out as food for thought and wasn't too worried whether or not anything came from it. At best, maybe I planted some seeds to think about or for her to discuss in IC/MC.

This morning, got up as usual, gave her a kiss and good morning and went about getting ready for work and some light discussion with wife about our upcoming day. Out of the blue she cut in and asked could I confirm our therapists phone number for her. Sure; I text it to her. As she was getting ready to leave, she gave me a hug and kiss and said she was going to make an IC appointment with therapist today about the things we talked about. I just smiled and said OK; whatever you feel is best for you!

Zero expectations, but was nice to see maybe the seed I planted my sprout something positive. Nothing has changed for the worse between us; still get along really well and close friends. Still share activities and projects together. Still in the same bed. just lots of time & patience!

Thanks for reading!

One question; are we considered piecing at this point? Not that it really matters but kind of curious what constitutes piecing.


Azagtoth