Afraid I have waited too long

[nit84]

New development,

W finally brought up the fact that her unemployment has stopped. Somehow the way she pays the bills she paid a double payment on one of the credit cards. I think she meant to pay another bill and hit the wrong button IMHO but I didn't say that.

She started saying that she would transfer money over from our savings to cover the bill if she couldn't get it reversed.

We went on discuss other bills and she said how much one was and that she didn't have the money to cover it so she would again have to transfer some money from our savings to pay her share.

My question is do I transfer my portion of the bills to her account or back into our savings either way I am still paying my share of the bills.

I told her that I would be willing to pay extra and then if her benefits pick back up she can pay me back if she likes.

She said she would just use the money from the savings to pay it after all its both our money.

I agreed with her.

I didn't know to say it say I just kept quiet and now I am looking for some help.

The savings technically is both our money but only to a point IMHO.

Since S I have continued to put money in that account from every pay just like I have been doing for the last 4 yrs.

Any money there before S is definitely joint although it was only me contributing to that account.

That money has always been earmarked for home repair and vacations or other emergency needs.

How do I tell the W without a confrontation that I feel that the money I put in since the S I feel is really all mine.

I feel like if she has to transfer money to cover bills or buy groceries then that is fine but if she plans on using that money for lets say renew a gym membership that is up then that would be pretty wrong of her.

I want that money to go towards home repairs. I think she will balk at that because "we" need it to pay bills.

I don't believe this is true but I get the feeling in way does she wants me covering all bills with my paycheck. I feel it is that whole "now I am indebted to him and he will want me to R" attitude.

No expectations of that really, I just want to keep that savings for badly needed home repairs/upgrades.

I know that I should be asking a L these questions but I already had my consultation 5 months ago and don't want to go that route right now.

Just looking for anybody, that may have or is in this position, for some guidance.

Thanks in advance.

[AnotherStander]

How do I tell the W without a confrontation that I feel that the money I put in since the S I feel is really all mine.

If you're still under the same roof and you don't have a legal S agreement in place, then I believe legally it's still considered joint marital assets. And any debt you or she accrues is joint marital debt.

[nit84]

AS,

Yes I know legally everything is still joint. Debts and assets included.

She knows that the money that is in that account was from me putting it away for us.

I know if she wanted to she has every right to clean out those accounts and take me for everything.

This is the first time a financial discussion taken place since last Summer.

I may be a fool but I don't get the feeling she will take the money and run away.

Mostly, I guess I want her to see that even though we are S and she thinks I have all money I am not going out and spending this extra money foolishly.

If we were still together, this extra money would be going to pay down debts even further.

She is dictating how we are paying the bills and doing a great job at it. Because of her employment sitch, we(she) are/is not able to continue to pay down debt at the rate we were before the S.

This extra she sees in the account is for home repairs and emergencies, I just want to make sure without throwing it in her face that she realizes it shouldn't be used completely just for her because she has no job.

She says she is looking and has had interviews(info that was conveyed to me suggests otherwise).

The crappy thing is if we were still together all of this would not even be an issue. We would be working through it together. Granted, we may have had a lot more conflicts and arguments if things remained as they were in our former M.

Now that I have been going to IMC and reading great books and I am doing DB coaching. I feel I am better prepared to deal with crisis like these when they come up but none of that matters if my W still continues to want out.

I cant lie, It is somewhat bothersome that because of her status as a WAW she will allow her stubbornness to over ride her sense of safety and security as it pertains to a new improved loving M.

She has commented on the changes that she has seen and it seems to tick her off. I understand why it would after 15 years of more of the same but in the same right I would think(maybe wish) a couple baby steps should have been made by now. This week has been a bit better interaction wise so maybe this is the baby steps I am looking for and just don't consider it as such.

Sorry for the "woe is me" feeling of this post but It is better on here than it is to my W.

[nit84]

Well the W came to me in near tears, a family members spouse is very ill.

We haven't really kept in touch with family member through out our whole M. More their choice than ours. W has reconnected since our S. I sent Christmas wishes on social media and they responded in kind. Just a weird deal for all these years.

Anyway, This illness is extremely sudden. Before this our week was different than the rest since I have moved back. I wouldn't classify it as progress but it is nice to have some interaction with the woman I love.

Tonight she approached me and began to tell me the story. I turned off the TV and gave her my full attention. I truly feel awful for all that are hurting because of this and let her know this. She said the reason I haven't seen her so much recently is because she is with this family member a lot. She is still coming home at the same time everyday like before so not why she would make that comment.

She took a quick phone call and then I inquired about what is happening so more and W opened up again. I continued to empathize and listen.

She offered that she was supposed to go away next weekend but said now those plans are unsure.

Last month she went away for the weekend and didn't say a word about and I never questioned it when she returned.

Wonder why she decided to tell me this time?

I have been cooking nice dinners for myself every Sunday since returning home. The W has declined to try any of this. I told her tonight that if she didn't feel like making dinner because she is upset, to feel free to have some of what I made. She said Thanks but I have leftovers. I said Ok well the offer stands from here on. She said Thanks.

We then talked quickly about bills. She began to get emotional again saying it is all this crap at once. I really wanted to hug her but thought better of it. I just told her that if she or anybody needed me I, of course, would be here.

I told her about some bread I brought and was cutting a piece and it flew to the floor. I laughed at myself and as she was walking away she said use the cutting board.

That might seem silly but it is "hers" in a way and things that are perceived to be "hers" have been off limits to me, at least when she is around and would see my using it.

I hate the fact that something bad had to occur to have her talk to me.

How am I to take this?

I have no expectations just wondering why she would turn to me if she hates me so much

[nit84]

In conjunction with my last post.

I know that my W may feel vunerable at a time like this and I certainly do not want to push or pursue.

I just wish I knew how far to take it without crossing that line.

I am ok with empathizing and validating that is not my problem. My problem is maximizing my interaction time with her when she is opening up about feelings she has that have nothing to do with our sitch. Or does our current sitch amplify her feelings and that is why she is coming to me and telling me what it going on?

Is it a gut feeling that I will know when to stop with the consoling? It seemed as if other things were bothering her, bills, whether to go away this weekend, and probably the current state of whatever it is we have at the moment. I was glad we kept the main focus on the family member but wondered if maybe she was looking for me to also "feel her anguish" with these other things that are going on in her life. IMHO, she lately has acted a bit overwhelmed with things that have been happening to her. I know it is her life but when she lets me in a little it breaks my heart when she is hurting. How can you lovingly convey if things were better between us I would be much much more sympathetic but because of her choices I need to guard my emotions so that I don't get disappointed when this or any other crisis come and go?

Should I now ask if there are any developments or let her come to me again?

This morning I did tell her to please tell the family member that I was thinking and Praying for them and his spouse and also for her family as well.

She said she would.

She left her door open more than usual last night. It was hard not keep checking to see if she was ok but I managed.

[nit84]

I am having a little trouble focusing this morning.

While I thought it was good that my W told me she might be going away this coming weekend.

I have now started to fall into the Where?, with who?, and shouldn't you pay the bills first mode?.

Last month when she was gone for the weekend it bothered me something terrible but I dealt with it fairly well and the anxiety went away. I didn't know that she planned to do that so it caught me off guard.

This time is different because she actually told me she might go.
Why this time and not last month?

Also she has admitted that she has no money, needs to tap into the savings a little to pay her portion of March's bills and no plans for this summer, as far as anything just worried about right now.

She says she has had interviews for jobs(highly unlikely) but has yet to get an offer or to accept an offer.

The last two weeks have been a bit different interaction wise. Nothing great, just being there to help out like a neighbor would or to listen to things that are affecting her life.

Just listening, not suggesting solutions or fixing things, to things that are bugging her and validating and empathizing.

There has been a few negative barbs thrown my way but then she backpedals and makes repair comments.

I don't know if I should bring up any of my concerns about paying bills before going away for the weekend or just let it play out.

I don't want it to appear I feel like it is alright to spend money when W has admitted that she cant pay bills unless it is from savings and wont accept any offer of assistance from me.

That is my concern but obviously the underlying concern is where is W going and why and with who?

If I bring up my issue with going away and not being able afford bills.

I fear my W will hear " who are you going with, where are you going and why?" Not my intended subject matter.

I guess I just have to act "as if" it will all work out and take it from there.

Just baffles me why she would tell me that she was thinking about going away this time and not last time.

Am I missing a big waving flag or something?

Confused at the moment, any suggestions or thoughts would be appreciated.

[zew]

I fear my W will hear " who are you going with, where are you going and why?" Not my intended subject matter.

I guess I just have to act "as if" it will all work out and take it from there.

Your instincts are correct, and I think you're dangerously close to re-attaching, and you know better than to jump on that train. You know the futility of caring about the where or with whom. Your only legitimate concern is the money.

I can't advise you on the money aspect. In my case, I had the money discussion last month, set that boundary, and hope not to have to discuss it again. If money's tight, that might be about all you can say. [in a non-lecturing way, and not in the context of any mysterious trip]

[nit84]

Thanks zew!!

Yes I fully understand the bad part of re attaching.

Just don't know how to bring up the money deal. Under normal circumstances she would be the one who says we can't afford this or that. But we both know these are not normal times.


How did you start that discussion?

[nit84]

Well I had a money talk with the W.

She told me again that she was going away and I steered clear of questions pertaining to that.

I said with that money I transferred over are you going to pay the bills? Just to let her know without saying it that I don't care what you do in your life just pay the bills first.(I didn't say this to her. Should I have?).

She said nothing was due but the car insurance. I said the mortgage is due the installment is due besides the insurance.

She muttered and expletive under breath and said I forgot Feb is a short month and those are due.

I said no problem just wanted to make you aware since I gave you my money already.

She then went on to say how she is not making any money hardly at all. I said that must be tough. She said she gets money when it is available from her odd job.

I said ok well I am sure you will figure it out somehow.

Later she said she paid those bills and transferred money from savings to pay the insurance like we discussed. I said you transferred half the bill your portion right? She no the whole amount, I said well I already included my half in the money I gave this morning. I will transfer that out and into the savings.
She said or you could leave it and it will pay other bills I said your right let me think about that.

When she came to the room I was in about 20 mins later. She said "do you understand what I am doing with that money? It is how I told you it would happen But you screwed up and gave me money last week for the bill we got screwed on" I said my understanding is you are lacking money and needed some from the saving to cover your portion. I will still pay my share from my checking account.

She said "NO! That money in the savings is both of ours correct?" I said "legally yes" in my mind morally its no but didn't say it.

She said" since it is both our money then I paid the whole thing as one that makes it fair. It is not right for me to take from the savings and not you." I must have had a puzzled look because she said" I just don't have the money right now and if you needed money that is how we would do it also." I said "thats fine you are doing a great job with the bills."

This morning I woke up not mad but a little miffed that she was complaining about money but still going away.

I asked her 6 months ago to give half of the extra money from our escrow overpayment. She said she would. I left it go till I moved home and again asked her for it. No response.

So this morning to give her something to think about while she is away. Maybe I shouldn't have but I did. I said "just something to think about when you are figuring out March's budget for yourself."

"I would like and I don't need it right now but before the end of the month(March) I would like my portion of the escrow money I have been asking you about."

She said:I used that money for bills.

I said: I know your half but mine technically is still owed to me because I gave you money to completely pay my part each month.

She said: But all the work I did around over summer I figured covered that.

I said: Cutting the grass is a household chore and I always offered to do it but you said no.

She said: I don't have it I will borrow it.

I said: you don't have to do that I don't need it today just didn't want to surprise you with it in a couple weeks that wouldn't be fair.

I walked away to gather my thoughts and started to feel bad. So I went back to talk to her.

I said: I am sorry if me telling this upsets you but that was not my goal.

She said: But I have no money, you see the account, you see I don't buy things for myself. I buy this and that is it(pointing to her gym supplements).

I said: It is not my business nor do I care but you get cash from where you are working so I don't know how much you are making and what you are spending or buying.

She said: money is tight I told you so I am not getting much. I am looking for a job every day. I just thought all the work I did around here all summer covered it(look back in my thread and you will see other than grass cutting not much else was accomplished till I moved back.)

I said: that is a household chore and speaking of which soon I want to start painting the house.

She said: We will have to talk about that. When it warms up we will put the house on the market.

I said: it needs a lot of work first IMO.

She said: the L's I spoke to said just put it on the market.

I said: Oh you have a L?

She said: NO just talked to a couple.

I said: Oh ok

She said: Is there anything else you would like to tell me before I leave for work?

I said: No, Do you have anything you would like to tell me?

She said: I don't really feel like talking to you right now.

I said: I understand

She left for work. Did I handle this like I should have?

The only thing I think is maybe I shouldn't have brought up the escrow money discussion.

I did it for two reasons 1.) I could use the money and 2.) I wanted to give her something to think about while she is away(maybe ruin her trip a bit) and maybe think about not doing things when she has no money or at is complaining about not having any money.

I know where she is going and I think I know with who. But since it is not a deal breaker and no concrete I will not bring that up. It is on her to do that. I will just let it go. There was no yelling at all just I think frustration on her part because of no money.

When it gets to this point and now she has told me she has no money how do I proceed?

Will this make a WAW think about how it was in the past in regards to money security?

I don't want her to think about the way the M was before conflict wise. I hope this wouldn't happen.


Will it make her run away farther?

It is just me but if an A is happening either EA/PA or both. I would have thought by now if there was any hope of a future with the OM my W would have told me by now.

That's why my patience is helping a great deal right now. Will it pay off? I don't want her to be a cake eater. How can I prevent this or do I just keep on doing what I have been?


Suggestions, comments, advice appreciated.

[nit84]

I am feeling a bit uneasy at the moment.

I feel I did the right thing by bringing up money issues just not sure if I did it in the right fashion.

Because I feel this way does that mean that all my hard work at DB has gone kaput over one discussion where I thought I did a good job at validating and empathizing?

Could really use some veteran advice right now.

I didn't expect my W to happy about having that discussion and I didn't think I was controlling or patronizing or nothing but kind and understanding. I felt this discussion had to take place when it did. I hope maybe her being away might allow her to take a serious look at her sitch and realize what I was saying was not meant to show her up at all. I just made my feelings and desires known as it pertains to our financial state. Was I right to do so?

I know I can't control what happens but I hope I didn't drive her farther away and into the OM arms.

I have no experience with this that is why I am at a loss.

In other folk experiences, do these type of discussions sometimes lead to the WAW rethinking their desire to R.

People have told me that she is liking things on a social media site the last couple days that would suggest she is trying to convince herself or others that she is moving on. She has shut me out of her page on that since I moved back.

I don't put much stock in that stuff especially because right after she likes these things she also likes something my SIL put on there about loving my brother so much and thanking him for being there and wanting to be M.

Nobody knows anything about my W and my sitch since I moved back so that post was not put on there with any intent as far as I know.

My W has kept in touch with my family through texts all along after the S.

I told my family that is fine with me. I am not sure she is still in contact with them since I moved back or not(she blamed my family for pushing me to move back). I think she backed off that position in time since.

Feeling somewhat better after typing this but could sure use some feedback about my current dilemma.

It is just so strange for the last two weeks It has been different between us. I have no expectations and realize she can turn on a dime at any moment but we were talking at least a little more than just Hi and bye(mostly from me).

No R talk because I don't want that but maybe any talk at all is considered a R talk to my W.

I know she isn't thinking straight because who forgets Feb is a short month. I know she has a lot going on in her life right now and that is why I am doing my best to help any way I can but when certain thing become an issue they need to be dealt with no matter what. Is that correct to think that way?