own buz 22:mediation to reconcilliation, hopefully

[makingmagic]

Ken...No... that is what YOU are saying. I am merely suggesting that he is no better than me or anyone else who has made drunken mistakes. Its very common, actually. They are mistakes. I have taken FULL responsibility for that night. He just won't let it go. The weight loss and the fact that I didn't eat are only explanations.

My actions to this "friend" matter is a HUGE difference from who I was prior to BD. Displaying growth. The issue I was trying to present was about the "friend" not the "drunkeness". I am comfortable with my drunken disorder, it was no different than anyone else who over indulges. Its not like this is a usual occurance. I have apologized to those who required an apology. They get it... it was drunken fun. I have made my peace with myself.

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Mrbond... it is your opinion that I have not changed. I think thats a strong untrue statement to make. I have definately changed, but can admit and be RESPONSIBLE that there is more work to be done.

As for your comment about h not having a "choice"... He does.. he can have and do whatever he choses to do. He has free will, without my judgement. He has LOTS of choices... However, it is my choice to bail out here. Please explain further how I am controlling this? (I am not challenging, but asking). I have read many threads of posters who have "insisted" on a boundary, the WAS respected it. I am not insistant. I stated one, and now my mouth is shut.

To reiterate:

You are suggesting that I still require validation and that is why I "STILL" give many explanations. <<< I feel I am in the process of stopping that. I don't need to "keep" telling anyone. I do need to show it. <<<< I feel I am now showing it. (not explaining to h, why I don't feel like "coffee time", or to "talk" or to... with him). I have not "chased" down my friend either. Like I used to. I am allowing (not controlling) the outcome... whatever it may be. Like I used to.

I have a hard time understanding others POV, which is WHY I ask for explanations. I am not opposed to changing my opinion, once I have a better understanding. Im good.

Communication: I have been cautiously stopping myself from "talking", while listening. I catch myself. I direct myself back to listening. I also have been "listening" more to what the posters are saying and not jumping to defense. I am still a work in progress here... I want to be a much better communicator.

[LoisB]

I think there's a certain style of communicating on Magic's threads where it escalates and gets really harsh quickly.

I'm not sure this is serving anyone.

We all come here wounded. And, I know that I certainly don't have the right to judge where anyone else is at...even though I've been guilty of doing such. Sometimes harshly.

Everyone has the right to be where they are in this process.

I asked about the alcohol yesterday because, Magic, sometimes it comes off as if you have deep denial about something. I may be wrong and I probably only pick up on it because I've had/have experienced deep denial too.

Magic, I hear you being one really scared lady. And, it sounds like other people have called the shots in your life for a long time.

Just by hanging in, here on the thread, I see someone trying....trying to be better, trying to change, fighting for a better life.

And, I think everyone deserves some encouragement, not harsh criticism, when they try. The drinking thing was a mistake and you seem to acknowledge it.

I'm choosing to focus on the fact that you aren't dwelling on your H like you were. I think this is progress. This takes time and it's scary and it's painful.

That's my two cents.

And, no, Mr. Bond, I don't have a problem with YOU. I have a problem with that particular statement. I thought it was mean-spirited. I didn't hear it as playful banter. And, I expressed my opinion.

[MrBond]

"it is your opinion that I have not changed. I think thats a strong untrue statement to make."

All semantics. You haven't actually READ my post. I said that based on the repeated cycles you haven't changed. Sometimes you need to learn to stop reading things so literally. That's why you jump into all your explanations.

"As for your comment about h not having a "choice"... He does.. he can have and do whatever he choses to do."

No he doesn't. Free will has no parameters. The way you presented his "choice" to him is an ultimatum. He can have this OR that. That's controlling. I don't know why you keep arguing about this. You are the one who said it and I'm taking it from the POV of your H or an outsider hearing it and I'm telling you that it's controlling.

A better way is to present it as a strong option and not to make it an all or nothing statement. That shows strength and belief in yourself.

"You are suggesting that I still require validation and that is why I "STILL" give many explanations."

Not "suggesting". I'm telling you that's what I see and why it's so frustrating to post to you. I've already spent more time explaining myself to you more than any other poster on the boards. You get more help than anyone I know on here but you still debate back. It does get a irritating after awhile. No answer ever seems good enough for you. You always seem to need to have us explain everything to you rather than you figuring it out for yourself.

"I am allowing (not controlling) the outcome... whatever it may be. Like I used to."

And then you come on here and complain about it. That's not letting go. You have to make that a part of your personality if you want to truly change.

"I have a hard time understanding others POV, which is WHY I ask for explanations. I am not opposed to changing my opinion, once I have a better understanding. Im good."

But there comes a time when you have to stop asking "why" all the time. Sometimes talking to you is like talking to a kid who keeps asking "why" to everything that's explained to them.

"Communication: I have been cautiously stopping myself from "talking", while listening. I catch myself. I direct myself back to listening. I also have been "listening" more to what the posters are saying and not jumping to defense."

Sorry I haven't seen that.

[MrBond]

"Now, who is acting the victim?"

That's not an "opinion". That's a statement directed to me. I didn't say MM or the others who have posted to her as a victim which is why it should have been taken as a tongue in cheek statement. That was YOUR interpretation. Again, if you haven an issue directly, then PM is the best way to sort it out.

[makingmagic]

Heather:

I asked about the alcohol yesterday because, Magic, sometimes it comes off as if you have deep denial about something. I may be wrong and I probably only pick up on it because I've had/have experienced deep denial too.Prior to BD, I used to drink 1/2 to 3/4 bottle of (homemade) wine per day. Starts off while cooking then during dinner, etc. I have NEVER been drunk or tipsy off this stuff. I can handle it. After BD, I lost my drinking buddy (h). I also lost my desire and flavor for wine. I pretty much stopped drinking. THIS WAS NOT ME!! I LOVE Wine!! I want to be a social drinker. I try to drink, it just doesnt feel the same anymore. I can't even do 2 days back to back. I sometimes go more than a week without a drink.

Magic, I hear you being one really scared lady. And, it sounds like other people have called the shots in your life for a long time. TRUE, I have enabled them. I feared the outcome.

Just by hanging in, here on the thread, I see someone trying....trying to be better, trying to change, fighting for a better life. Yes, this is me...ALWAYS. Thank you

And, I think everyone deserves some encouragement, not harsh criticism, when they try. The drinking thing was a mistake and you seem to acknowledge it. Thank you

I'm choosing to focus on the fact that you aren't dwelling on your H like you were. I think this is progress. This takes time and it's scary and it's painful. Yes, it is. Thank you

[LoisB]

DING! DING!

Houston, I think we may have found the problem. Magic, my mom is a substance abuse counselor--for the past 35 years and I worked for her for years. I did assessments for her.

I'm, obviously, in no position to assess for a substance abuse problem here. BUT, this makes a lot of sense why everyone of the boards seems to get their feathers ruffled with you.

Couple of things seem to strike me as red flags and may be something to consider.

1) Your friend's concern/anger over your drinking. Red Flag. Has anyone expressed concern in the past over your drinking?

2) "I want to be a social drinker" --Red Flag. Social drinkers don't say stuff like that. You either are or you aren't. If you have your own secret concerns about your drinking, this statement makes sense.

3)"I used to drink 1/2 to 3/4 bottle of (homemade) wine per day. Starts off while cooking then during dinner, etc. I have NEVER been drunk or tipsy off this stuff. I can handle it."

Red Flag: "I can handle it." Never met an alkie who didn't say this. You have high tolerance. High Tolerance is a red flag.

4)"I try to drink, it just doesnt feel the same anymore." The same than what? Red Flag. Sounds like later stage alcoholism. You have moved past the high and now it doesn't do "it" like it used to.

5) "I LOVE Wine!! I want to be a social drinker."

Normal drinking means you can take it or leave. I don't hear that from you. Do you ever intend to be a social drinker, but end up having episodes like the one the other night that pissed off your friend?

6) "I can't even do 2 days back to back. I sometimes go more than a week without a drink."

Red Flag: You are measuring your drinking, paying attention to how much and how long you go with/without drinking. Have you ever tried to stop in the past? How long?

7) Did your H or daughter ever have concerns about your drinking?

I asked about the alcohol yesterday because, Magic, sometimes it comes off as if you have deep denial about something. I may be wrong and I probably only pick up on it because I've had/have experienced deep denial too.

Prior to BD, I used to drink 1/2 to 3/4 bottle of (homemade) wine per day. Starts off while cooking then during dinner, etc. I have NEVER been drunk or tipsy off this stuff. I can handle it. After BD, I lost my drinking buddy (h). I also lost my desire and flavor for wine. I pretty much stopped drinking. THIS WAS NOT ME!! I LOVE Wine!! I want to be a social drinker. I try to drink, it just doesnt feel the same anymore. I can't even do 2 days back to back. I sometimes go more than a week without a drink.

I suggest an assessment. You may need to confront the drinking before you can tackle any of these other issues. Otherwise, your threads will continue to be a cycle of frustration, denial, anger and spewing.

[makingmagic]

DING! DING!

Houston, I think we may have found the problem. Magic, my mom is a substance abuse counselor--for the past 35 years and I worked for her for years. I did assessments for her.

I'm, obviously, in no position to assess for a substance abuse problem here. BUT, this makes a lot of sense why everyone of the boards seems to get their feathers ruffled with you.

Couple of things seem to strike me as red flags and may be something to consider.

1) Your friend's concern/anger over your drinking. Red Flag. Has anyone expressed concern in the past over your drinking?NEVER... not before or after BD

2) "I want to be a social drinker" --Red Flag. Social drinkers don't say stuff like that. You either are or you aren't. If you have your own secret concerns about your drinking, this statement makes sense.Meaning, I don't want to not drink. I miss the being in social drinking scenarios

3)"I used to drink 1/2 to 3/4 bottle of (homemade) wine per day. Starts off while cooking then during dinner, etc. I have NEVER been drunk or tipsy off this stuff. I can handle it."

Red Flag: "I can handle it." Never met an alkie who didn't say this. You have high tolerance. High Tolerance is a red flag. Def, not an alkie... I have high tolerance to my weak concentrated wine.

4)"I try to drink, it just doesnt feel the same anymore." The same than what? Red Flag. Sounds like later stage alcoholism. You have moved past the high and now it doesn't do "it" like it used to.noooo... I lost interest, lost the flavour due to losing drinking buddy (h)

5) "I LOVE Wine!! I want to be a social drinker."

Normal drinking means you can take it or leave. I don't hear that from you. Do you ever intend to be a social drinker, but end up having episodes like the one the other night that pissed off your friend?I can take it or leave it, I prefer to somewhat be the ME I useed to be... with it BACK in my life

6) "I can't even do 2 days back to back. I sometimes go more than a week without a drink."

Red Flag: You are measuring your drinking, paying attention to how much and how long you go with/without drinking. Have you ever tried to stop in the past? How long?I was ansering your question. I do not pay attention to it. I have never needed to stop in the past. Im sure I could If I "wanted" to.. I chose to continue.

7) Did your H or daughter ever have concerns about your drinking?Nope, not daughter not H, not parents, not self.

I asked about the alcohol yesterday because, Magic, sometimes it comes off as if you have deep denial about something. I may be wrong and I probably only pick up on it because I've had/have experienced deep denial too.

Prior to BD, I used to drink 1/2 to 3/4 bottle of (homemade) wine per day. Starts off while cooking then during dinner, etc. I have NEVER been drunk or tipsy off this stuff. I can handle it. After BD, I lost my drinking buddy (h). I also lost my desire and flavor for wine. I pretty much stopped drinking. THIS WAS NOT ME!! I LOVE Wine!! I want to be a social drinker. I try to drink, it just doesnt feel the same anymore. I can't even do 2 days back to back. I sometimes go more than a week without a drink.

I suggest an assessment. You may need to confront the drinking before you can tackle any of these other issues. Otherwise, your threads will continue to be a cycle of frustration, denial, anger and spewing.

Thanks for your concern Heather, however you are wrong. I'm not understanding where "my drinking, or lack of it" addresses my personal situation... at all

[LoisB]

Yup.

I'm sorry Magic. I'm not posting until you get an assessment. Bingo. Just my two cents. But, it's two cents with lots of experience in this area. May be wrong. But, if I'm right, this problem impacts every other area of your life. And, there's no point arguing, reasoning, talking, analyzing anything else.

I didn't hear you answer any of the questions I posted.

Much love,

Heather

[makingmagic]

Hey Heather... thanks for your concern tho... Im sure with your background or moms...it may come across as being able to see this stuff better... but I am not in denial.. at all.

If I had a problem, or if others had a problem... I would (like everything else I do) .. address it. I would dig deep and investigate it to death.. this is WHO I AM.

I enjoy casual drinking... I love sitting with a big bowl of a glass to allow my red to breathe. I love sitting on the couch snuggled in with my family or friends surrounding me.. talking, watching tv. THAT is what I want BACK !!!

[LoisB]

Sorry, you did answer one of the questions with "Never." Just noticed this.


Seriously, I'd think on this Magic. It makes a lot of sense why you respond about things the way you do. VERY DEFENSIVELY---like you are protecting a habit that you hold really dear. Is H the habit or is it the wine, or both together?? Is H a part of your drinking "ritual" ???? What if you were told you couldn't have the wine anymore? EVER.

It sounds like alcohol/wine has a very dear place in your life and maybe your relationship with H. Just my thoughts.

I really do wish you well.