Rebel without a clue

[prometheus]

Greetings fellow internauts,

This is a link to my previous thread.

I am still seeking help, feedback, advice, etc. I admit to being pretty clueless and having little insight into my situation. Thank you all for your valued input. It was suggested that i update the board on what has been happening for me so here goes.

Life has continued much the same for me. My 18th wedding anniversary came and went without fuss or fanfare in October. November saw me take a weeks vacation from my work. I spent the time getting a life. I bought a surfboard and have been learning how to surf. That has been way outside my comfort zone. Very enjoyable, nonetheless.

December was a difficult month for me. My wife did not want to share in any of the Christmas gift buying so we shopped separately for the kids and relatives gifts. The separateness seemed so contrived and forced - at least to me.

January saw me take a holiday from work for a couple of weeks. My intent was to take the kids on a holiday to see my father. They have never had much contact with him as he lives 1000km or so from where we are. In the end, only my eldest son was willing to come with me. My two younger children changed their mind at the last minute and stayed behind. Oh, well. My 18yo son and i had an OK time. I was able to relax.


So, now it is February. The year is not new any longer but somehow i feel that it is New Year for me. Strange.

[prometheus]

Since October i have been desperately hoping thigs would improve between my wife and me. For my own part i have tried to remain detached but polite and helpful. Little by little the turmoil that i have been feeling has been subsiding. I can't report significant improvement though. I have done my best to keep talk light and pleasant. Mostly, we have only talked about things to do with the children...and small talk.

Some things that i have noticed with my wifes behaviour have left me scratching my head. She seems to be fine for a while....and then she turns?...lashing out at me for anything she can find fault with(i am the first to admit i have faults..haven't we all?). It seems to me that W is only able to maintain a veneer of civility for a period(days, a couple of weeks?). Then it is back to spewing vitriol or moody silence(could be me being over sensitive though). She does seem annoyed that some of my focus is on her; seems annoyed if i pay her too much attention(eg validating her feelings or things she seems worried about). She wants me to focus on the kids instead(natural enough i suppose).

The end of October saw us having a text discussion about some bills that needed paying. Instead of paying the bills without discussion as i had been doing, i stopped doing so, hoping that would move W to communicate with me about it. I guess i was feeling a little hard done by. I had been paying everything and the money had finally run out. I knew that W had come into several thousand dollars, some of which could be argued should have been shared with me. I suppose that annoyed me. W spent up big, went on a holiday, all the while saying that i was not contributing financially. Even though i *am* contributing around $450 per week by way of paying the rent on the premises we live in, W feels that i should be paying more. I don't want to sound cheap. It seems kind of fair(more than fair?) to me. My own investigations suggest around $150 per week less is all i am *obliged* to pay. I hate this stuff. I would happily give over my entire wage to have my family life back...

[prometheus]

At some point towards the end of September i did a bit of backsliding in the form of arguing with my wife. I accused her of making stuff up. She responded by saying that perhaps we should put everything in writing so there was not any further confusion. Unfortunately, not everything we have discussed since has been put in writing. I do have all of the text conversations saved though. The up side is that i can go back and review what has been said. I thought it might be useful to post some examples here. Please let me know what you think.
-----------------------------------

10th September, 2013

me: Hey there. The rent is due. I have no money to pay it. Sorry. (i realise now i should rather have said i have not ALL of the money - $5,400)

w: i guess you'll have to move out then

me: Nice smiley....
Are you really asking me to move out?

w: I did, 12 months ago....but hardly a topic for txt conversation! I got sk8 school & then show rehearsal til 8...c u after that

me: You love texting this stuff when it suits you! And you never did ask me to move out....i suggested it once. I will take your text as a yes then?

w: maybe we should....that way there's a record of what gets said! & I would rather not have it brought up when [son, 18]'s less than a week from his exams..... :p

me: Why do you think I texted you? Don't bring [son, 18] into this....they all have had to deal with this....for a long time....

w: idk why you would choose now though....

me: It is becoming clear that you are not batting straight....even though you claim to be an open book. That is one reason.



30th October, 2013

me: Good morning! :-) :-D


w: if you could find a way to deposit rent into my account...I would be grateful....
(Background: After our text discussion above where i mentioned not having the money for rent, w took it upon herself to pay it. I went with my bank cheque of $3600 the next day to pay at least what i had. *Something* urged me to ask the receptionist before i handed the cheque over, to ask if any rent had been paid recently. Why yes! $5,400 had been paid yesterday....i kept my cheque for a later day. I discussed this with my wife when i got home that night and gave her the cheque. She threw it back at me saying it was useless to her. I left the cheque on the bench.)

me: I believe we have already discussed this. Perhaps I will just give the bank cheque to [real estate agency]. All above board that way.

w: no...it's not right...I am out of pocket & I shouldn't be!

me: As am I....badly.

w: you paying the rent covers your half of the rent plus child support ....me paying puts you in debt & me not getting any support financially from you...

me: Meh



18/12/2013

w: for the sake of the children, I am putting an end to this..either you move out or we will....

me: :-( that is horrible.

w: yes it is....but it's not healthy for any of us to keep living like this....

me: Your imagination....


w: no...our reality....stop being delusional....


me: By "our" I take it to mean you and your other personalities that you talk to because you sure don't talk to me about your realities...just head in the sand stuff from you and then these occasional text outbursts. And you call me delusional? At least I am prepared to be open to face to face discussion...unlike your snipes by text and non verbal bullying of me out of the house...


w: my reality is that you don't support me when I need it most, you're unavailable for the kids, you haven't contributed financially for months....& you have heard all that before. simple!


me: Not so simple. You don't talk to me...you brood, snipe. I want so badly to make a difference and help.
Basically, I don't agree with what you are saying...why do you have to resort to these text conversations when what we really need is to communicate in person....regularly.....you never ask for help....i am expected to "know" what is required....that sounds delusional. Certainly not the way I would like to communicate. Give me a fair go.



w: I am not your mother...
grow up!


me: See what you did there?


w: I suggested you acquire some emotional intelligence....because i am not responsible for you....

me: Then why are you trying to run my life?

w: you have had decades of a fair go.....my fair go time is now


me: Revisionist rubbish...deluded self talk...


w: meh


me: You know out is true though...yes I am angry and usually don't lower myself to respond to this rubbish but you are simply wrong to try this guilt trip stuff on me. Why can't you try and get along? Too childish?

w: yes, you are....trapping me is not love....


To be continued next post...

[prometheus]

18/12/2013

w: for the sake of the children, I am putting an end to this..either you move out or we will....

me: :-( that is horrible.

w: yes it is....but it's not healthy for any of us to keep living like this....

After digesting ^^^this text exchange that i got (at work), and having talked to the people in my office who have come to know what i am going through, i formed the view that it might be best if i move out. I don't want to move out but i can't see any other choice.

I wanted to come on here at the time and post about what i was doing/feeling/thinking but i did not have the energy to update everyone on my situation. So i didn't. I should have.

Even though it is done, i would still value input on my actions. What would you do? Here is what i did...
I sent a heartfelt text to my wife. I was scared and mostly resigned to my imagined fate. Here is the message:

Hi [wife],
I have been so selfish and I can see how hurt you are. I want to do my best to respect your wishes, so I have decided that the best way that I can begin to accommodate them is by agreeing to move out of our home. I will start to look for somewhere else to live.

One thing that I would ask though is that we can spend and share this christmas together.

To date i have received no *actual* response to that text. I asked if she had got the text and was told that she could not open it on her phone. I resent it to an email address, asked again about receipt and w told me that she had got it. No discussion though.

...January saw me take a holiday from work for a couple of weeks.

When i got back from ^^^this^^ holiday, one of the first things that w asked me was what timetable i had for moving out. Foolishly, i replied that i was not in a hurry. W said that i was "calling her bluff" and "playing her for a fool". I replied that i *had* been looking for another place to go, and had inspected three premises. They were all hovels. I told her this and added that i was not prepared to move into a hovel. That is the last discussion that we have had on the subject. That was around the 1st February, 2014.

[MrBond]

Don't move out. Have you figured out what your rights are? She can't just "take" the children because she wants to. You are their father. Start fighting for them rather than letting her have her way.

[prometheus]

Don't move out. Have you figured out what your rights are? She can't just "take" the children because she wants to. You are their father. Start fighting for them rather than letting her have her way.

Thanks for replying MrBond. *Not* moving out is what i have been doing for over a year now. The resentment from my wife over this has seemed to increase over that time. My D12 has started to voice similar sentiments. She said to me one day "nobody wants you to live here". That hurts. D12 has also started saying some horrible things to our S6. I figured that if i was not around then things might improve. What if i went somewhere else for a month or so? Would that be so bad?

My rights? "Best interests of the child" is the prevailing determining factor in Australia. I can't force the kids to stay with me if they don't want to. What sort of things should i be doing/saying in order to "fight" for them? Thank you once again for your time.

[MrBond]

" The resentment from my wife over this has seemed to increase over that time."

That's HER problem. You haven't done anything to provoke her right? She CHOOSES to feel irritated.

"My D12 has started to voice similar sentiments. She said to me one day "nobody wants you to live here". That hurts."

THAT is the bigger issue. Why on earth would your own D say that to you? Did you do something? How was your relationship to them before all this happened? She has to start learning that she can't disrespect you.

"What if i went somewhere else for a month or so? Would that be so bad?"

Once you leave, your W will never let you back. That's pretty much a given.

[prometheus]

That's HER problem. You haven't done anything to provoke her right? She CHOOSES to feel irritated.

Apart from still being there you mean? I have not been the happiest to be around but that *has* been changing slowly.
I wish i had a higher level of self esteem. Your comments have highlighted for me how passive i am being, and i think that my low self esteem has a lot to do with that. I *am* a passive person but i can see that it is not serving me well here.

THAT is the bigger issue. Why on earth would your own D say that to you? Did you do something? How was your relationship to them before all this happened? She has to start learning that she can't disrespect you.

I don't know what i did. This stuff is hard. D likes to cast me as the villain because i don't cave into her demands like W does (she calls herself the cave in queen). I stopped trying to convince my wife not to undermine me like that a long time ago. I can't force anyone to do anything. I make my position clear, but what else can i do? I can't make demands or ultimatums. I wish i had some better insight into our(Daughter and me) poor relationship. We used to have a much better one when she was younger. All my attempts to make things better have been met with varying degrees of opposition. I have not given up hope though. Maybe when she gets a little older.

Once you leave, your W will never let you back. That's pretty much a given.

That is something that i have considered. Would it be the end of the world? Other people here are working on their M whilst being separated. Besides, both our names are on the lease so w could not really stop me moving back if i chose to.

My thinking in this is to give her space where i am not there. The problems of the world can't be blamed on me that way. I am very conflicted over this. I have paid $500 deposit for a room in a lovely house just down the road. I am supposed to be moving there today. Problems. I have not told my wife of kids. I don't think i want to go. I suppose that might turn out to be a $500 lesson.

[prometheus]

Less than half an hour ago i worked up enough courage to tell my wife that i was "having difficulties with moving out". It was not an ideal time to discuss - but it never is with us. We haven't really ever set boundaries with the kids so we could have time for us, so S6 and D12 kept on flitting in and out and interrupting our conversation. This has been a common feature throughout our marriage. I think we both find it frustrating but don't have any strategies to deal with it.

I used the words as quoted above to the best of my memory, prefaced with "There is something that i need to talk to you about". That is all that i said initially. I let that hang there to see what W would say. She replied, "yes, i have noticed that". After a few minutes (and one or two interruptions from S6), W asked "Why?".

In turn, I answered by saying that i "could not convince myself that it was the right thing to do, and just could not bring myself to do it". More time went by before W replied by saying "I suspect that you are more concerned with what is best for you rather than what is best for everyone else". With that, she got up and went out for some supplies (both kids had been nagging her to go). She called out to me "back soon" from inside the house and left with S6. They have not returned as yet. I don't think that i really need to respond to W's last comment and i feel that she will have more to say when she gets back. I am pretty sure that she is annoyed.

I am on the brink here guys. W is not alone in suggesting that i am being selfish for staying. That i am not doing the best by my kids by staying. I am so confused.

[prometheus]

Well...i was wrong. Not a peep out of my wife after she got back. We cooked dinner between us and moved furniture and things in preparation for a painter coming today (he is here). Nearly 24 hours later and still no further talk on me back flipping about moving out. I guess i will have to try and broach the subject again.
I have the day off (my birthday ) and i am going out to meet up with a friend.