melissa - gotta get back to me

[25yearsmlc]

I don't know how to do any of this.

I do accept that my H wants to get divorced. I accept that it's a fact. I get it.

And I am so f-ing hurt by it. And I don't know how to stop that.

It's too Hard "to stop that". But it's not as hard to let time pass, and then, the feelings of pain lessen.

I feel like I can't have compassion for my H anymore. I don't even feel like I can be nice to him. Because all he does is take, take, take. It leaves me feeling completely used and taken advantage of.


I had so much compassion for him. I really did. And I reached out to him with everything I had, to try to support him and make him feel loved. I took ownership of everything I did wrong in the M. I shelved my own feelings/needs/wants in order to concentrate on his.

Melissa, this^^^ has nothing to do with YOU. Now, just read that last sentence again...I believe when you accept that you are not responsible for how HE reacts to anything You do or say, which is not easy but is true, then you'll stop "harping" on this^^^^ stuff.

Mel, It's just not relevant. Seriously. Think like a lawyer for a minute. How much "irrelevant" evidence do we like?

I sat there, and I took more than my share of responsibility in telling my kids he was leaving. I comforted him when he felt badly about it.

yikes, you did? You comforted him? How? Geez, well that's going a bit far for me...


I completely let him off the hook for anything he did (in the M or since BD) that hurt me. I could go on, but you get the idea.

except you did not let him off the hook. I don't even know what that sentence means Melissa. SURE, you were supportive, to his face and all, but you know, and we know, and maybe MAYBE he knows, that he's leaving his family, just like his dad did. Just doing it with more contact with his kids, so far...

And what did he do? He led me on and used me. He told me a bunch of BS that he now disavows (about being really hopeful about us and seeing if we can fix things, etc.), he kept wanting to spend time with me and ML.

this is ^^^ confusion, mixed in with conflict avoidance, guilt, and some other mixed emotions on his end. I doubt (and you cannot prove) that he was using you. Plus, why spin everything in the most negative way?

It does not protect you. It makes you more angry and victimized, and it may not even be accurate. Shake it off.

I am a complete idiot and made it even worse on myself this afternoon. H texted me and said, "so just so I can stop speculating, how did you view my match profile?"

Maybe I am overreacting, but wow, that really hurt. I tried to deflect the question but he persisted. He REALLY wanted to know. Lord only knows what he was thinking in his head.

what? Maybe he was thinking you were snooping and he didn't like that...
OR are you interpreting it, as him actually asking for your opinion?

IN which case if it were me, (and once I had picked my jaw off the floor), I'd say "since 1/3 of people posting on match.com are actually still married, I thought it looked like one of those...why do you ask?"

So I, very stupidly, I know, texted back something to the effect of "do you have any clue what it feels like to find out that your spouse is looking for women online and using pictures of your children in his profile, and what is important to you is how I found out?" (I also, ugh, threw some words back in his face, from when he told me that he wasn't going to be dating.)

WHY WHY WHY am I so dumb?

He came back with,

I told you that our relationship was over. I told you that this was not a trial separation - that our marriage was over. I fvcked up by sleeping with you afterwards. I acknowledge that and I apologize for it. I should have controlled myself better. I'm also sorry that it hurts that I am interested in other women. I really am. I would prefer that it didn't. But I spent a really long time in our relationship feeling like crap about myself because of the way you treated me. And the fact that there are now women who not only do not reject me constantly, but are actually interested in me, feels really good and I'm not going to apologize for that.

Ugh.

I get it. I hurt him. I really feel badly about it.

[/i]"I fvcked up by sleeping with you afterwards"??

Do I deserve that?


well, that part of this was an actual apology from him. Not an "if IT hurt you" but an admission that HE screwed up. Take that for what it is, which I think is sincere. And again, why see it negatively when it's at least ambiguous? Don't make this worse for yourself than it already is.

This is why I feel like I don't even want to speak to him. Ever. Because he doesn't give a sh!t about me or my feelings. Not even a TINY bit. He just does whatever he wants, with complete disregard for how it might affect me. [i]That's not how my friends treat me.

we get that.

He sent me that hateful email the other night, then turned around and did a complete 180 the next day, like nothing happened. As if it's OK to talk to me like that.

HE does NOT think he did anything wrong! So it's not like he thinks he spoke badly to you.

Did I miss something, or are we discussing what is in this thread?

I am overwhelmed with the thought that I have to deal with him for THE REST OF MY LIFE.

I don't know how to stop being hurt by him. How am I in control of that?

[banging head against a wall]

By GAL, which leads to DETACHING, which leads to LETTING GO, which leads to

NOT being so hurt by him. In time, indifference will replace your pain and then a calm "thank God we are Not m anymore..."

b/c Melissa, when you stop revising the m (doing the opposite but analogous thing HE is doing, which is revising the whole m. HE is making it a total nightmare and you are acting as if it simply needed tweaking...neither is really accurate. A major paradigm shift was needed.

That has now happened.

IN TIME, (at a minimum, 3-6 months) as you back off and STOP telling him when You feel hurt, which cannot make him feel relaxed at all around you, he will begin to see YOU and the m, more accurately.

What are you doing to show him that YOU are moving forward?

What about being UPBEAT around him? Yeah, I know you said you did that. You believe it did not help you. But telling him when you feel hurt is achieving what?

You SAY you felt better getting it off your chest, but overall I don't see you feeling as if it was worth it. Not with the result being HIS continued cluelessness, combined with your goal of showing him that you are a woman only a fool would leave.

And that OTHER MEN will not reject YOU either.

Maybe you need to ask him for HIS input into your profile. You know, since you find other men attractive and all...

[paul19510]

Hi M. Just catching up on your thread...busy day. I sgree eith shat peopls said and think if makes sense. Sd are hab ing some similar attachmsnf issue as tou noted to me before. I learned becofe thaf people sill even confinue with poor od dysfuntional contsct instead of none. Schnarch mentions the concept. I don't have the book in front of me but I remember seeing it.

I think we both have to do a better job of letting go. You can't move corward like this and there is nowhere to run back to. You are doing great for where you are. Youve vot to let H vl in order to stop hurting like this. I need to do that with W. Its a daily struggle. We will get there. Have faith. You sill hanlde this and come out stronger. ((((Melissa)))))

Ps I think the H is so matter of fact about it bc they know we are still there. If you moved on and met someone or just moved on really. He'd flip....don't do it bc he'd flip...just do it because you deserve it. Let H go. I will keep working to let W go too. Keep posting.

[Valeska19]

I don't know how to stop being hurt by him. How am I in control of that?

Let me see if I can help you connect the dots on this one.

You cannot control HIM and what he tells you, but you can control what YOU do. You could have chosen to not answer.
You chose to engage in the conversation with him about the online profile....

When people talk about going dark for everything expect kid-related things, this is the reason why...
When people mention boundaries, this is why. YOU can chose what types of interactions you have with him. He can choose to act selfishly, and you can choose how you react.

FWIW, my H also posted a photo of my 2-yr. old daughter on match...A photo I took of them... He then substituted with a photo I took of him on a really special family trip. So I KNOW how much it hurts.

My H said to me exactly what yours told you today, almost word by word. The whole paragraph where he says "I told you our R was over, etc." My H said that to me repeatedly. You know why? Because I kept poking the bear...
So he felt the need to keep repeating what I was not hearing (and accepting...)
That he was done and was looking elsewhere for what he was not finding in our M.

Did it hurt when he said such things? - LIKE NOTHING EVER DID.

The key is that you can CHOOSE to interpret it as "I don't want you, it's your fault" or you can choose to hear "I am unhappy with my life and am looking for my happiness."

Those are two very diff. perspectives on the same paragraph. In one, you are a victim and you are taking his pain and issues and making them yours (codependency). On the other one, you let go of him and his issues and realize it's not about you.

That is the empathy I am talking about...

It's not easy not to take it personally. You know how I know? Because I chose to do so for two years, which make me so miserable.

I feel we have A LOT in common and know exactly what you are going through. I spent over TWO YEARS spinning my wheels because I remained stuck, repeating like a broken record how hurt I was, how unfair this was, how selfish my H was...

If I had changed my internal discourse sooner, and really put in practice all the advice I was given and small practical steps I could have followed to help myself heal, I probably would have found detachment sooner. I (and everyone else here) so wish I could help you heal sooner, but we can't. We all have to grieve at our own pace and go through our process and live it in our own skin.

All we can do here is offer support and try to give you some practical advice that worked for us on how to get you through the day and try to overcome the dark space you are in.

I also know a lot of what people are telling you now won't sink in now... But for a lot of us, some things stuck somewhere in the back of our minds (or our threads) and eventually clicked. I know that I did learn to understand what people were telling me later in my process. But I was stuck in victimhood mode for a long, long time...

You have so many people rooting for you and giving you great, great advice... But it's up to you to choose what applies to you and when and what type of help you get. We have no control over that.

In the meantime, all we can do is continue cheering you and and wishing you healing and light in your life.

(((((((melissa)))))))

Really solid advice KG. You have come soo far my dear!

[dxw689]

Melissag: I have just found your thread and I just want to say that I cannot believe how similar our situations are - right down to the timing, as BD and move out of our husbands are within a month of each other. You are doing great and feeling the same things I am - and you are right to feel that way. The advice you are getting is outstanding and I just want to add my support. Your husband is verbalizing the EXACT feelings I am seeing from my husband - that they feel somehow they were mis-treated/unappreciated by us and that now they are entitled to this wack behavior. I don't know how their empathy buttons got so broken. It is hard not to feel that somehow we must have contributed to that. But we both have done our best to rectify our role in the breakdown of the relationship once we knew about it - again, another similarity: I also thought my divorcebusting was working and then - bam - he told me nothing had changed and moved out and progressed to open relationship with other woman in front of and together with my kids. But you are strong. An interesting person. A wonderful woman. Thank you for sharing your situation and know that it is getting better, with the support of us all going through this together. You are behaving in a way that is admirable and right. Love and enjoy your kids and become more of you... I love the advice to post something about yourself that is not a reaction to your husband. We will come out the other end better - Byron Katie has some good advice to view that all of this is not happening TO you, it is happening FOR you - how? That is the challenge - to step back and figure out HOW to see this as happening FOR you - name 3 things that are better since your husband moved out - could be trivial, like his shoes are not in your way in the closet - but it slowly starts to change your perspective.

[labug]

Hey Melissa((()))
I'm not going to say much today. This is so difficult; make it count for something. And I know you're really trying to get this. It took me a long time, there's no shame in that.

You are in control of you. Don't engage, every question he asks doesn't need to be answered. I wasn't sure the question he asked but it seemed to me it was, 'how did you know i had a profile?' You could have said, "all that matters is I saw it", or "it's not important."

You want to counter everything, you do it here and you seem to do it with your H. Slow down, think, let the anger dissipate and figure out what you're feeling before you respond.

Take a few days off from this board and read k_g's last 2 posts over and over. She speaks from her experience with such clarity.

I'm being very serious. Sometimes we can have too many voices chattering away at us.

[melissag]

First of all, let me just say that yesterday afternoon, especially after H sent me that text, I was in a horrible place. I was actually believing the things H was saying.

I posted here, and then, even though I felt like I wanted to just curl up into a ball and die, I forced myself to go out to get dinner and go to yoga.

Doing those things helped, but what really helped was seeing all your wonderful responses here. It changed everything for me, and helped snap me out of my funk.

So, THANK YOU.

When people talk about going dark for everything expect kid-related things, this is the reason why...

I get it now. Sometimes it makes sense in my head, but I need to see it in action to really get it. Kinda like a kid touching a hot stove I guess.

KG, I am sorry that you have gone through the same, with the online dating and the blame from your H.

The key is that you can CHOOSE to interpret it as "I don't want you, it's your fault" or you can choose to hear "I am unhappy with my life and am looking for my happiness."

I want to do this . . . but I kind of feel like I am cheating. Aren't I fooling myself if I think that? I mean, clearly my H is saying the former and not the latter, isn't he?

I'm having trouble reconciling listening to people when they talk, and not being codependent. So, for example, in this situation, if I choose to interpret what my H said as "this has nothing to do with me," aren't I invalidating his feelings and discounting what he is saying?

I feel we have A LOT in common and know exactly what you are going through. I spent over TWO YEARS spinning my wheels because I remained stuck, repeating like a broken record how hurt I was, how unfair this was, how selfish my H was...

I am so sorry that you had to endure that. It hasn't even been 5 months for me and I feel so beaten down and exhausted.

IN TIME, (at a minimum, 3-6 months) as you back off and STOP telling him when You feel hurt, which cannot make him feel relaxed at all around you, he will begin to see YOU and the m, more accurately.

I guess it takes more time . . . this weekend was the first time I have even mentioned being hurt by him since BD. I mean, I literally have not told him ANY of my feelings or that I was hurt during the M or now. And, I learned my lesson not to do that anymore.

What are you doing to show him that YOU are moving forward?

I'm not doing anything to show him, I'm just doing my thing without him, and I guess whatever he knows, he knows. He certainly knows that I don't sit around the house moping - and I guess the big things are that I went on vacation without him, had a Super Bowl party without him, had family photos taken without him.

What about being UPBEAT around him? Yeah, I know you said you did that. You believe it did not help you. But telling him when you feel hurt is achieving what?

You SAY you felt better getting it off your chest, but overall I don't see you feeling as if it was worth it. Not with the result being HIS continued cluelessness, combined with your goal of showing him that you are a woman only a fool would leave.

Telling him I feel hurt achieves nothing other than making me feel sh!ttier when I see that he doesn't care. I won't make that mistake again. It did feel better on Friday, telling him that I wanted him to take my kids' photos off of his dating profile - because no matter how he responded to that, at least I felt like I was sticking up for myself and my children. For a long time, I feel like I have been letting him just stomp all over me because I didn't want to upset him. That felt pretty bad. I think the issue is, I need to distinguish between standing up for myself and my kids, and letting him in on my hurt. The first is OK, the second only makes me feel more hurt, and H dig in his heels.

You can't move corward like this and there is nowhere to run back to. You are doing great for where you are. Youve vot to let H vl in order to stop hurting like this.

Paul, I think you drank too much of that homemade beer in the gatorade cooler last night . . . But I get what you are saying. I appreciate the support - I know we are in a similar place. If you figure out how to detach and let go, please let me know! I think that is the most frustrating part of all of this. I want to do this so badly but every time I think I have gained some ground, I get a sign from the universe (or more likely my H) that I am dead wrong.

Your husband is verbalizing the EXACT feelings I am seeing from my husband - that they feel somehow they were mis-treated/unappreciated by us and that now they are entitled to this wack behavior.

dxw, I am so sorry you are going through this same thing. I have not seen your thread but will look for it later today. I appreciate the support.

That, up there, was one of the things I thought about last night. I get it that my H was hurt in our M. And I am truly sorry for that. What I am not sure of is where he gets the idea that he is entitled to have the admiration of other women (ignoring for the moment that he could have gotten it from me), regardless of the effect it has on anyone else. And really I am thinking about our kids. I can't imagine putting my sexual ego above the needs of my children.

[melissag]

You are in control of you. Don't engage, every question he asks doesn't need to be answered. I wasn't sure the question he asked but it seemed to me it was, 'how did you know i had a profile?' You could have said, "all that matters is I saw it", or "it's not important."

I know. I reacted out of emotion. And I knew when I was doing it, I shouldn't do it. Lesson learned the hard way.

You want to counter everything, you do it here and you seem to do it with your H. Slow down, think, let the anger dissipate and figure out what you're feeling before you respond.

Actually, I want to do with with my H, but I don't. Since BD, I have pretty much kept my responses to myself. But yes, I do need to work on that. (And yes, I see that I just countered part of what you said.)

Sometimes we can have too many voices chattering away at us.

I was thinking that yesterday. It had me really overwhelmed. My C, my friends, my L . . . sometimes it is too much.

With 3boyzmom as my inspiration, I am off to begin tackling my closet organization project . . . may the force be with me.

[labug]

That felt pretty bad. I think the issue is, I need to distinguish between standing up for myself and my kids, and letting him in on my hurt. The first is OK, the second only makes me feel more hurt, and H dig in his heels.

Yes, because the first is being in control of you the second is being the victim.

You're getting there, you really are but this challenges everything your ever thought was "right." Have you ever heard the phrase, "The opposite of everything you believe to be true is true to someone else"? (I realize that more and more every time I look at my FB feed )

When you start looking at hings fro different perspectives it really opens things up.

Enough-hope you have a lovely day.

[paul19510]

Hi M. I dipped my phone in beer I think. Ha! Sorry for the typos. Crazy couple of days. Darn predictive text...I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend. I will let you know when I find my scissors to cut the rope. 25 and bug are helping me find them.

quit your H like a bad habit. Moldy old cheese.....hey look my phone is typing better today. Lol

((((Melissa))))

[melissag]

Too much time to think while cleaning out the closets.

So when H says cruel things to me (the "I fvcked up by sleeping with you" comment is really getting my goat right now . . . as though it was a one time drunken romp rather than many times of deep talks, family time, him telling me BS about how maybe we will work things out, etc.) . . . I should just ignore them?

If I ignore him, does that not indicate that I accept him treating me so cruelly?

Yet on the other hand, nothing I say is going to make him see that or feel badly about it. It's not where he is. Or, sadly, who he is anymore.

Bug, you talk about figuring out where your anger comes from . . . and I see what you are saying. Your example with your H the other day was a good one. But what do I do when my H doesn't care?

So I can identify why I am angry. But I can't go back to my H and say, "it really hurt my feelings that you said X." He doesn't care.

So what do I do with that? I feel like my only choice is to eat it. And that is making me feel quite resentful. In fact, the resentment has been building in me this morning as I think about the way that my H has treated me lately . . . it goes way beyond insensitive.

How do I reframe that?

And to anyone who is interested in giving me input on how to deal with my H . . . I emailed him yesterday (before the text debacle) and told him that I would be willing to try to work things out with him using lawyers as consultants only, but that I would not accept any further shame, false accusations or attacks on my character. (This was in response to the nasty email he sent earlier this week.) I also responded to his accusations in a very factual manner - i.e., the bank account I have been using to pay the mortgage is a joint account we have used to pay the mortgage for three years, etc. I refrained from any kind of defensive or smart aleck remarks (though there were plenty to be made given the ridiculousness of his email).

You'll never guess what his response was. "I am willing to call off the lawyers. I don't understand why they were called in the first place."

So you know how people always say not to have any expectations? I was so mistaken about how I understood that. They weren't kidding when they said "no." As in zero. Less than zero. I didn't realize I would have to drop the baseline expectations we have of all human beings - like basic manners, regard for others, etc.

Back to the point - he later emailed me and said, "Can we get together face to face next week (name the time and date and I will make it happen) and talk through this? Electronic communication has never been our best medium."

(Which made me laugh, because, if you're not listening to or caring about what the other person is saying, what difference does it make if it's face to face or over email or by pigeon express?)

So I guess I am to just ignore the fact that he ignored everything I said in my email, and agree to meet with him? Honestly, I don't know what he wants to meet about. Does he think we are going to sit down and agree on money and parenting time in an hour? I am so seriously dreading this. But the alternative is to let someone else (who doesn't know me, H or our children, and charges $425/hr) figure this stuff out. Blech.

As an aside, every time I talk to my H, I see the things that we both used to do in our R that were damaging - not doing them myself anymore has really opened my eyes to see just how bad they are. And it's frustrating now, to deal with him continuing to do them. The assumptions, the extrapolations, the little comments thrown in to remind the other they were right . . . ugh.