melissa - gotta get back to me

[Mimi00]

I think I told you about the book "Not the story you think it is...a season of unlikely happiness" ...you switch has always reminded me of that book. The author lives in a mountainous state w/ two kids and her H wanted to move to his own apartment and said the same things like "the kids will be fine...this is actually good for the kids etc...". So it seems it be somewhat script behavior and feelings that he is experiencing in this foggy time of his.

But anyways... I admire your strength....and from what I can see, you are handling this forced rollercoaster ride pretty darn well.
Your kids have an awesome and brave mom

[melissag]

How did you feel about this afterward?

I felt good that I had said something. And, I'll just be honest, I hoped it made him think.

Was there a shift within you as you said these words to H?

I felt like I was being less of a doormat and being more of myself.

What did you take from H's response to your request?

His initial response? "I'll take care of that and I am sorry that hurt you"? I took it as robotic and emotionless. Like it was part of a script. Something he was supposed to say to be the person he wants to be.

He texted you afterward...he seemed to shift as well.

I thought about that, but I think that the shift started on Wednesday after he met with his lawyer. Nothing happened with me between the time he sent me a nasty, accusatory email, and the time he emailed me all friendly and then came to TKD and acted like we were best friends. So I think that his response yesterday was part of the shift that had occurred on Wednesday, which, as far as I can tell, had nothing to do with me.

I spent several months working really hard and watching his responses, keeping a journal, etc. And it really seemed like things were going well - my H still wanted to hang out with me, we were ML, everything was friendly, he was saying things that made me hopeful. But then he dumped a bag of bricks on my head, and he made sure to say, "nothing has changed, I don't want to be married."

So that pretty much made me tear up my journal and light it on fire. Because what that told me was that none of what I was doing or saying was changing anything . . . my H was just doing whatever he felt like doing at the time. It was all about him and had nothing to do with me (aside from the fact that I went along with it).

In the first six weeks of DBing, I really saw a huge change. We agreed that our R was the best it had ever been. (Note that my emotional needs were still not being met - so maybe my H just thought it was great because I was everything he ever wanted, and he had to do nothing in return.) That all changed after H moved out.

I really thought that BDing would be the most H could ever hurt me. But I was wrong. It just keeps getting worse.

And I feel like, when I try to be kind and compassionate and look for the positive, my H just shoves me farther into the sewer.

As I was thinking about this stuff earlier, I realized that I am still thinking about H, and how he feels, and what he thinks, way too much.

I need to pick a path for ME and stick to it. I just don't have any clear direction right now.

[keep_going]

He thinks that is what he is doing. And he just keeps repeating the story. The kids are fine. The kids will be happier if I am happier. My parents got divorced and I turned out fine. You will be happier. We will all be happier.

Change your perspective - from a place of anger to a place of empathy and compassion.
Can you imagine just how much pain he is going through internally and how trapped and unhappy he felt in the M to think that D IS a better option?
(From what you have described with your own words, it doesn't sound like you were actually that happy in your M either, so why not accept that his unhappiness reached the point of him giving up).

The difference is that you want to change the marriage and he wants out of it... Not what you want, but the truth is that both perspectives are valid.

Your complaint above shows that you have not reached acceptance of your current situation yet. The sooner you ACCEPT that today, right now, he wants out because that is the only solution he sees, the sooner you will stop spinning. I am NOT saying that you need to agree, but acceptance will only help YOUR emotional well-being. Perhaps his perspective will change again some day, but for today this is where he is.

I think that holding onto anger, as a general rule, is not helpful. But...

Think about Bug's words about anger and yours ^^^^^ for a few days...You might surprise yourself with what you come up with.

So the only way I can figure out to reject his sh!t, even when I am seeing him as the guy I thought he was, is to remind myself constantly of the sh!t he is serving. That is hurt and anger right there. I guess I view it, in a way, as protective.

Again - you can choose to change your focus and perspective from him to you.
You don't need to reject his sh!t. That is his to carry...
You can focus on your behavior and your life and making the best of it and being grateful and happy and stop looking at his actions and what he may or may not be thinking. You can also calmly set healthy boundaries for yourself so that when his actions hurt you or you kids.

You don't need anger for that...

M - you have a whole weekend for yourself. What about not just pampering yourself externally, but pampering your soul?

Turn the focus back on you.

a) on what you can fix

- Go back to your threads and identify the things you have recognized as needing to change - your controlling tendecies, co-dependency, resentment, avoidance, lack of boundaries, whatever it is that you have already seen in you...
- Make a written list of them.
- Come up with examples of how these behaviors materialize in daily life and ALL your relationships (after all, DBing is about US and how we can be better in ALL our R).
- Make a list of possible solutions and ways to approach these weaknesses and fixing them
- Write examples of how and when you have been successful in doing so

b) on becoming a happier, healthier you

- Smile at everyone you encounter today
- Become present in everything you do today. If you are eating, concentrate on each bite and savoring the deliciousness. If you are working out, give it your 100% until you reach sheer exhaustion.
- When you talk to people, look them in the eye and really listen to what they say. Try to put yourself in their shoes and focus on their lives and their situations.

- Become a more grateful person
- write down everything you are grateful for today
- start with the small things (the smell of coffee or freshly-cut grass, the feeling of sun in your skin, the beauty of flowers, your favorite food
- then move on to big things - waking up in a warm bed, in a house that not only doesn't leak, but that is comfortable and spacious, your health and that of your kids,
- the fact that regardless of the outcome of your D, you will be taken care of financially (read around - there are many, many who's outcomes here have not been that good),
- the fact that no matter what, your life is better than probably 98% of the world's population,
- the fact that you have a career and can take care of yourself and your family,
- the fact that you are intelligent, caring and strong enough to face this situation and try to make the best of it...

etc.

- GAL - get out of your comfort zone. The more you do new things, the more you will NOT think about your H, his words or his actions. (I wish 25 would come and post her list of GAL activities when her H separated... her attitude and strength in just getting out of her comfort zone - THAT is true GAL...)

- Make a list of new places and activities you can do with your kids to build new memories. They don't need to include spending, but it sounds like you are fortunate enough to be able to plan trips and things like that. Be grateful and take advantage of it!

- Re-define what family is. Right now, it's not you, H and kids... Perhaps it's you, kids and extended family or friends that are as close as family. Or perhaps it's just you and kids - for now...


And finally, I will give you a challenge. You post here a few times a day... Can you make sure that at least ONE of your daily posts does not mention your H at all? Then make that two a day. If you find it hard, try to not post every day. Perhaps take some time off the boards. Go out and live in real life more...
Can you do that?

I guarantee that if you tackle just a few of the above on a consistent basis, you will focus less on H, detach faster and be overall happier with your life NOW, TODAY...

Isn't it great to have that power? YOU ARE IN CONTROL (if you want to...)

Make this a great, great weekend!

((((((((melissa))))))))

[melissag]

Thanks, Mimi, for your kind words. I don't feel like I am handling this well at all (though I haven't cut off H's private parts or run him over with my SUV, so I guess there's that), but as Bug has pointed out, I have a harsh judge in my head. So maybe I am doing better than I thought.

I read the reviews for the book you mentioned (as well as the author's NYT essay) a while back, and I wasn't sure I would enjoy it. However, if you say it's good, I'll add it to my homework list!

[labug]

I didn't mean that I was telling H off yesterday.

I know that, it doesn't change my response.

But I have learned that when I treat my H like that guy, I get crapped on. If I sit down at his table, he serves me sh!t and offers me seconds. So the only way I can figure out to reject his sh!t, even when I am seeing him as the guy I thought he was, is to remind myself constantly of the sh!t he is serving.

This is the part that many people get stuck on. Hear me loud and clear you have control of that! And is it you get crapped on or is it that your expectations shift?

Have a little anger if you want, but for most of us it keeps us in a very emotional place and the slightest miscue from someone sets us off. Anger is a secondary emotion, it's usually masking something else. Realizing that and being able to slow down and suss that out is important. Then you can respond in a way that's helpful for you.

I'll tell you a story in realtime. I'm moving through anger with my H right now. We had a disagreement about plans for later today. I could feel my anger coming up in me and I disengaged. Went for a bike ride, came home and he had to leave for his guitar lesson.

I needed to be away from him to figure out just exactly what I'm feeling, why I'm feeling that and how to deal with it.

I'm feeling hurt because it seems to me that he disregarded my feelings. (You know this before he does ;)) He didn't do that intentionally so we need to talk about it more and come to a decision that works for both of us.

I had to sit with the anger and let it pass to figure that out.

I need to have an open mind to hear him out. I couldn't do that with anger clouding my brain.

You're in a very different R with your H right now but it doesn't change how you can best understand and deal with your anger.

You're being challenged in many ways. You're not regressing, this isn't a linear process so accept that if you can.

Let go.

[melissag]

I don't know how to do any of this.

I do accept that my H wants to get divorced. I accept that it's a fact. I get it.

And I am so f-ing hurt by it. And I don't know how to stop that.

I feel like I can't have compassion for my H anymore. I don't even feel like I can be nice to him. Because all he does is take, take, take. It leaves me feeling completely used and taken advantage of.

I had so much compassion for him. I really did. And I reached out to him with everything I had, to try to support him and make him feel loved. I took ownership of everything I did wrong in the M. I shelved my own feelings/needs/wants in order to concentrate on his. I sat there, and I took more than my share of responsibility in telling my kids he was leaving. I comforted him when he felt badly about it. I completely let him off the hook for anything he did (in the M or since BD) that hurt me. I could go on, but you get the idea.

And what did he do? He led me on and used me. He told me a bunch of BS that he now disavows (about being really hopeful about us and seeing if we can fix things, etc.), he kept wanting to spend time with me and ML.

I am a complete idiot and made it even worse on myself this afternoon. H texted me and said, "so just so I can stop speculating, how did you view my match profile?"

Maybe I am overreacting, but wow, that really hurt. I tried to deflect the question but he persisted. He REALLY wanted to know. Lord only knows what he was thinking in his head.

So I, very stupidly, I know, texted back something to the effect of "do you have any clue what it feels like to find out that your spouse is looking for women online and using pictures of your children in his profile, and what is important to you is how I found out?" (I also, ugh, threw some words back in his face, from when he told me that he wasn't going to be dating.)

WHY WHY WHY am I so dumb?

He came back with,

I told you that our relationship was over. I told you that this was not a trial separation - that our marriage was over. I fvcked up by sleeping with you afterwards. I acknowledge that and I apologize for it. I should have controlled myself better. I'm also sorry that it hurts that I am interested in other women. I really am. I would prefer that it didn't. But I spent a really long time in our relationship feeling like crap about myself because of the way you treated me. And the fact that there are now women who not only do not reject me constantly, but are actually interested in me, feels really good and I'm not going to apologize for that.

Ugh.

I get it. I hurt him. I really feel badly about it.

[/i]"I fvcked up by sleeping with you afterwards"??

Do I deserve that?

This is why I feel like I don't even want to speak to him. Ever. Because he doesn't give a sh!t about me or my feelings. Not even a TINY bit. He just does whatever he wants, with complete disregard for how it might affect me. [i]That's not how my friends treat me.

He sent me that hateful email the other night, then turned around and did a complete 180 the next day, like nothing happened. As if it's OK to talk to me like that.

I am overwhelmed with the thought that I have to deal with him for THE REST OF MY LIFE.

I don't know how to stop being hurt by him. How am I in control of that?

[banging head against a wall]

[melissag]

By the way, I fully recognize I am totally losing it.

If I was reading this on someone else's thread is be smh for sure.

Going to grab dinner and yoga . . . and will smile at every person I encounter. Baby steps.

[Wonka]

M,

I am sorry to see this happening again. What a real DUMBASS H is lately!

I would strongly encourage you to post here before responding to H's texts. We are here to support you with some input, insights, and information from our hard earned stripes in DBing.

H texted me and said, "so just so I can stop speculating, how did you view my match profile?"

If I were you, I'd respond to him in this way:

Really???! Are you that dumb to ask me that question?! You're an idiot.

Sometimes throwing a well-placed truth dart does the trick. And deflate H's overblown ego!!

M, please, please come here FIRST for feedback before responding to H. In my case, in the very early stages, I came to my threads frequently for feedback and input from the vets whenever Ms. Wonka sent me an email on how best to respond to her. It was because I knew that the vets would set me straight and give me the best possible advice on how to respond to Ms. Wonka.

Likewise for you. It isn't that you cannot do this, but because you are VERY NEW to this. Okay? Use us and OFTEN.

[melissag]

Thank you, Wonka. You made me laugh for the first time since . . . crap, the last time was at the gym this morning.

Would you really have told me to say that??

I hereby promise to check here before responding to H. It's really awesome that you guys are willing to help me with this stuff, so I better take advantage!

Also, I just realized I saw a very important concept in action today. My H felt that I attacked his choice of looking for women online, and I would say that yes, that only made him defend it more.

Yowza.

[keep_going]

I don't know how to stop being hurt by him. How am I in control of that?

Let me see if I can help you connect the dots on this one.

You cannot control HIM and what he tells you, but you can control what YOU do. You could have chosen to not answer.
You chose to engage in the conversation with him about the online profile....

When people talk about going dark for everything expect kid-related things, this is the reason why...
When people mention boundaries, this is why. YOU can chose what types of interactions you have with him. He can choose to act selfishly, and you can choose how you react.

FWIW, my H also posted a photo of my 2-yr. old daughter on match...A photo I took of them... He then substituted with a photo I took of him on a really special family trip. So I KNOW how much it hurts.

My H said to me exactly what yours told you today, almost word by word. The whole paragraph where he says "I told you our R was over, etc." My H said that to me repeatedly. You know why? Because I kept poking the bear...
So he felt the need to keep repeating what I was not hearing (and accepting...)
That he was done and was looking elsewhere for what he was not finding in our M.

Did it hurt when he said such things? - LIKE NOTHING EVER DID.

The key is that you can CHOOSE to interpret it as "I don't want you, it's your fault" or you can choose to hear "I am unhappy with my life and am looking for my happiness."

Those are two very diff. perspectives on the same paragraph. In one, you are a victim and you are taking his pain and issues and making them yours (codependency). On the other one, you let go of him and his issues and realize it's not about you.

That is the empathy I am talking about...

It's not easy not to take it personally. You know how I know? Because I chose to do so for two years, which make me so miserable.

I feel we have A LOT in common and know exactly what you are going through. I spent over TWO YEARS spinning my wheels because I remained stuck, repeating like a broken record how hurt I was, how unfair this was, how selfish my H was...

If I had changed my internal discourse sooner, and really put in practice all the advice I was given and small practical steps I could have followed to help myself heal, I probably would have found detachment sooner. I (and everyone else here) so wish I could help you heal sooner, but we can't. We all have to grieve at our own pace and go through our process and live it in our own skin.

All we can do here is offer support and try to give you some practical advice that worked for us on how to get you through the day and try to overcome the dark space you are in.

I also know a lot of what people are telling you now won't sink in now... But for a lot of us, some things stuck somewhere in the back of our minds (or our threads) and eventually clicked. I know that I did learn to understand what people were telling me later in my process. But I was stuck in victimhood mode for a long, long time...

You have so many people rooting for you and giving you great, great advice... But it's up to you to choose what applies to you and when and what type of help you get. We have no control over that.

In the meantime, all we can do is continue cheering you and and wishing you healing and light in your life.

(((((((melissa)))))))