do the kids like sausage? Maybe its for them, too or mostly...
Do Not pursue. Make the "No worries" clause very clear.
As in, you are detached from her sausage choice.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
The more I read DR I see my situation differently. Just went back and reviewed Chapter 5 and I don't know if I should be doing LRT or not.
I know what broke us was my stress and commitment to work, her changing job and Doctoral studies, possible mild MLC for W, and the loss of time we had for each other. During the last 5 months we were together I was broken emotionally and spiritually and she was reaching out to me for love and support but I did not see it. I hated myself.
During Thanksgiving weekend I was basically paralized by stress. She kept asking me to do something but I felt trapped by my job and could not go or do anything, basically on call or at work from 18 hours a day 7 days a week. It was a bad project. I told her in anger and depression "I was like this before you married me and this is how I am and will be" or something to the like. I do not remember this incident or my remarks. All I remember is she said if I was not comfortable at home maybe I should go to work. She then said that when the door closed something broke inside of her.
I feel completely different, have a bounce in my step, and find myself being upbeat and optimistic again. All while in the middle of the S. The S has also knocked a ton of sense into me and showed me instantly what is important to me.
Her mom and dad moved 40 miles North of us and we do not see them as much as we had earlier in our R, and she does not see them as much as she wishes. There were multiple times off and on over the R where I was not enjoying myself when visiting her family or I would say that we needed to be home instead of staying the night and enjoying ourselves. I realize now how dumb I was, but the last year and a half I was better when visiting.
If we were not S, I would plan on hauling all of the stuff to make sausages out to their house, make them as a family, and then cook some for dinner.
Sausage making was a tradition in her family. We are both from mainly European decent and it is very important to us. We have had multiple talks on how sad it is that traditions have been lost in our families.
My father grew up making wine and other traditional Italian foods in his family. Her father is Basque and moved from Spain to the US when he was 17, so she grew up making sausages and other traditional foods. We both want to create and continue some of these traditions.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Could you perhaps plan to make the sausages and invite her family to join you? They have the option to join but if they decline, you're making them anyway.
Me: 31, W: 29 T: 4 M: 2 Kids: 3 (SS: 7, SD: 4, D: 3) Separated, still living together: Nov 2013 Separate bedrooms: Feb 2014 W working away; kids with me: Nov 2014
Oh the roller coaster of emotions. Just got a text that W will be moving her stuff on Monday. Her stuff being some bedroom furniture and couches that she does not really need because the house she is staying in 70% furnished.
Before she left she mentally had divided some of our assets, so I know she planned on grabbing this stuff. I took the fact that it was not moved as a good sign.
The items are nothing that either of us really need, they are items from a spare bedroom.
I know I should not believe any of what I hear and less than 50% of what I see, but it still stings.
I am contemplating my response.
My head tells me I should just reply with "OK".
My heart wants to say something like "If you feel this in something you need to do, OK."
Just don't know what a productive response would be. I want to express displeasure, but with her being a WAW I doubt she cares what I feel about her taking the furniture.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Where I am confused is that she is a WAW and the book says I should be doing the LRT.
SLOW DOWN. Take a breath. Now, do that again, the breath thing. You need to process this more.
This approach to marriages in crisis, is based on the philosophy and books of MWD. But it's Not a code book or "Book of laws and regulations".
Nor is the "diagnosis" of your wife, (summing her up in an acronym) necessarily accurate or correct OR unchangeable.
Most people do not fit neatly into these boxes that we create. Most people change.
Oh sure, We tell ourselves that our spouse is "textbook" 'MLCer' or "WAW", b/c we want to simplify things.
We so crave clarity that we sometimes decree things that are simply NOT that clear cut.
Nor is the book to be "obeyed." Don't be mindlessly compliant. Make sure the words apply to your situation and be flexible and open about being wrong. OR about her changing and evolving and you too....evolve, grow.
CHANGE...it's the one constant in a healthy person....Changing, growing, evolving.
When reading and identifying 180s I need to do, having a sausage making night with her family would cover a lot of the issues we have had in the past. The sausage making MAYBE should be as you suggest. But please know this.
NO single gesture and No one sentence, is going to fix this. Or "Cover a lot of issues".
This is a marathon, not a sprint.
Do you understand the meaning of that sentence?
I just don't know if LRT is correct or not when I was basically shut down and ignoring her needs and wants for the past 5 months.
I know that asking about/planning the event would fall into pursuing which also violates LRT.
Just confused about my plan of attack when a 180 goes against LRT.
Maybe you can list here what you think YOU need to do (as in, 180s).
Then tell us what the 180 is supposed to demonstrate (more time with family, for instance).
Then tell us what SHE has said or done, in reaction to your efforts, thus far.
Then maybe we can better assist you.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Oh the roller coaster of emotions. Just got a text that W will be moving her stuff on Monday. Her stuff being some bedroom furniture and couches that she does not really need because the house she is staying in 70% furnished. Before she left she mentally had divided some of our assets, so I know she planned on grabbing this stuff. interesting wording here^^^. She told you ahead of time that she was going to get things and it happens to be things you don't use anyhow.
Why say "grabbing" when you know she needed some things AND had told you so? The word suggests her being greedy. Did you mean that?
And are you really in a position to tell her what she needs in HER place?
Besides, I doubt she plans on remaining there forever, so the "70% furnished" is not really relevant to her, long term. I think your perspective needs to be a bit fairer. Otherwise you'll paint yourself as a victim at every turn. And the tragedy of that is that even when it's true, it makes the LBSer look Less attractive. Victims are not appealing to be around, sad as that is to say.
I took the fact that it was not moved as a good sign.
You read into it.^^^. How is that "reading into" working for you?
The items are nothing that either of us really need, they are items from a spare bedroom.[/b Again you are deciding FOR her, what SHE needs. If the things are important to you, discuss that with her. Choose your battles wisely.
I know I should not believe any of what I hear and less than 50% of what I see, but it still stings. [b] I am contemplating my response. What is there to respond to? Just her appointment time?
She just gave you an "FYI", and it was courteous of her. That may seem weird to say, but SOME WASs just show up and "grab", whereas your w had told you ahead of time and now is confirming when...
if I were you and IF you are worried about what she is "Grabbing", then be there and go out and DO something fun that night...
If not, then do something really fun that day instead of seeing her off.
Don't forget that each night she has to look around "her" place and things do sink in. No need to keep pressuring her.
To reiterate, the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.
Stop giving her a reason for cementing in her choices to leave. Give her some thinking space.
My head tells me I should just reply with "OK".
My heart wants to say something like "If you feel this in something you need to do, OK." GO WITH THE HEAD. She knows how you feel. Stop telling her. Please listen to us.
Just don't know what a productive response would be. SIGH...there is no "Productive response". There are neutral fact based responses and ones that make things worse. Your wording clearly indicates that you EXPECT something to come of what you tell her. That is a mistake.
The only thing I KNOW around here, is that some words HARM YOUR CHANCES, making things worse, whereas no single act or wording will solve it.
Though we cannot advise you as to what will "cure" the situation, we CAN tell you what will hurt it. As you have heard many times... This is a "marathon, not a sprint".
Now, What does that^^^ sentence mean to you?
I want to express displeasure, but with her being a WAW I doubt she cares what I feel about her taking the furniture.
Do you think "expressing displeasure" is going to help you in ANY way? "Expressing displeasure" sounds like a priority to you. Was it always?
Can you see how you are, in effect, making the act of criticizing your w, a priority for you? Do you think that will help her see you as a great lifelong partner?
But obviously It's only going to make things worse. You act as if she does not know how you feel, but she does. We all do.
Repeating yourself is more of the old you. Telling her, again, that you are not agreeing with her, serves zero purpose UNLESS you want to annoy her.
Start at least acting as if you have had an awakening...
b/c the only way your wife will return to this marriage, IS IF
she believes marriage to you can be better/different from before.
How are you SHOWING her that?
(Not saying, but showing her with action)??
Here are the "Rules". I've highlighted a few for you. HOWEVER, please KNOW: Rules are not "rules". They are guidelines. NOT ALL apply to all situations. Be discriminating in your use of them..
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first. 3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject. 6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence. It's attractive, & good for your self esteem.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.) 12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" & have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Do not pout (& be aware of appearing to). Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17. ***You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse***.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that. 20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patient on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Sometimes the right thing to say, is nothing.
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write. 30. Do not openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, and truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them. (Also applies to #30).
32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last, and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
38. Know that in time, you will be happy again, regardless of your spouse’s choices. Know this, believe it, and let it show. 39. Do not believe that showing your spouse your pain and misery proves your love for them. It just makes it harder to be around you.
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is “Now & from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past. Let go of what you cannot control, which is a lot. It’s so freeing.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
This is golden advice 25yearsmlc has given you. I wish I implemented this sooner in my situation. It sounds simple but the work is hard. Took me several months before really understood it.
This is a learning process and the lessons are tough. That last one is great!
40. Don’t worry about how the past is viewed. What matters is “Now & from this day forward.” Learn to let go of the past. Let go of what you cannot control, which is a lot. It’s so freeing.
H 37 WAW 32 S 4 (Autistic) S 2 Together 11 years Married 6 Bombshell Dec 1 2012 House sold, flying solo June 1 2013.
180s I need to do: - make family a priority over my work - make time/plan things for us to do - like go to dinner, weekends away, etc. - listen to when she talks and not give solutions, be emotionally invested in her feelings and life - be a comforting father to our kids - spend time doing things with my friends - make my family and wife my primary job I focus on doing the best at
180s supposed to demonstrate: - I don't know who I am - Some of the issues in our M she has stated are: - I was not there emotionally - Did not enjoy time spent with her family - No Romance - No Date Nights - No Affection - stopped kissing just to kiss, little to no non-sexual affectionate contact - Made her nervous when disciplining kids - I had a short fuse for quite a while - Ignored her, dismissed her opinions/thoughts/ideas - Do not connect well with her emotionally - She does not want to live with a roommate - I was doing the majority of the housework while working 70 plus hours a week thinking it was showing love and support (now know this was not what she needed) - Did not share about my work or stress - tried to be a superman and act like I was doing well so I would not stress her out (now know this did the opposite of what I thought it would)
What she has said or done: Two weeks into the S, I wanted to take her out for a Saturday night, I said to have fun, and it was honestly my intention. We had not had fun together in a long time. She accepted on a Wednesday. When Saturday came she had an Uncle in town and wanted to go to dinner with him and her family, I was invited but she did not want me there. When I asked why she accepted the date she said that she thought I was not going to stop asking so she better go with me.
About 3 weeks in, we were filling out our calendars and I told her I wanted to take her to lunch on a Wednesday and on a date on a Friday that was 1 week away. She said she did not want to go. When the kids were asleep I asked why no lunch date and she said she did not want to go. She said she was done and wanted a divorce, and her face was angry. I remained polite and calm. We talked a little about us and a little about what happened, but it clearly was causing her pain. It degraded into a heated argument and ended awkwardly.
We agreed on 90% of what was wrong with our R and M but where we go from there was a big difference in opinion. She told me that she wanted a divorce and would have already talked to a lawyer but was waiting for me to get through my emotions. After this I found the DR website the next day and ordered the book.
We had been having dinner together as a family 1 or 2 times a week, this was the last time we did it. This was January 26th.
After reading books I realize that I had underestimated the depth of her hurt and pain. I now know what she meant by saying it was more that the last 6 months, but she is also rewriting our R history.
She has taken most of her clothes, some decorations, cookbooks etc. Now on Monday she wants to gather some other furniture. Knowing who she is, she had planned taking the furniture long ago and wants to do it to complete her plan.
Up until our blow up we had actually talked a little about the M and I thought it was therapeutic. After reading DR, I went into the LRT. At times I text or ask her about her classes, cross country skiing, give her compliments about her looks, etc. Things I would have done that stopped during my stressed out times that broke us.
I realize this is an eagerness and I need to be patient. When I read the DR and other books I get into the parts that deal with reconciliation and get excited and motivated.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
Thanks for laying it out for me. My emotions grab me and I turn here to vent, helps me cool down and focus.
When reading back what you wrote, I laughed at what I wrote in the previous post.
With #30 and #31 above; I want to always how she is doing emotionally with her work and doctorate. But with this not being common in the last 6 months it must seem like pursuing.
M:34 XW:34 Together: 10y Living: 9y Married: 7y Son:6 Son:4 Separated: 12/28/13 Piecing: 5/2/14 Separated 2nd: 10/16/14 W filed, but pulled it: 11/5/14 papers served: 1/27/15 D final: 3/6/15
