separated 8 weeks still on the journey

[paul19510]

Thanks LT. She is no longer silent. She expresed her hurt a little. She expressed her displessure with the kids distance. I guess thsts better thsn stoney silence....am I making sense? I can't see where I am and its un nerving

[melissag]

I think LITB has it right. You are doing all you can to get yourself where you need to be, but one of the main components is time, and, much to Veruca Salt's chagrin (and yours, I am sure), you can't make time go faster.

Keep trudging along, it's what we all have to do. Go back and read your threads and you will remember that you do have good days.

Until you have another, hang in there, friend.

[paul19510]

I think LITB has it right. You are doing all you can to get yourself where you need to be, but one of the main components is time, and, much to Veruca Salt's chagrin (and yours, I am sure), you can't make time go faster.

Keep trudging along, it's what we all have to do. Go back and read your threads and you will remember that you do have good days.

Until you have another, hang in there, friend.

thanks M. I appreciate your support even with the bad dsy you are having today.

[paul19510]

At hockey with kids. Beginning to feel better

[artsy]

Paul, I had IC today, and he reinforced that the LBS will cycle through all the grief emotions over and over, but they will be less intense and should eventually space further and further apart.

You will heal. He also said I (and you) have already survived the worst part.

And, M... Veruca Salt is my alter ego right now!!! Lol

[paul19510]

Paul, I had IC today, and he reinforced that the LBS will cycle through all the grief emotions over and over, but they will be less intense and should eventually space further and further apart.

You will heal. He also said I (and you) have already survived the worst part.

And, M... Veruca Salt is my alter ego right now!!! Lol

Artsy thanks!. I am honored that you thought of me. I find myself going through an interesting emotion right now. I won't act on it. I have an intense feeling that I somehow hold the key to say something different. That W is merely waiting for me to say with conviction "come home....you should not be living out of a suitcase....that's not the right thing to do..."

Of course this is something my mind made up. she would probably not answer my request or she would say something like, I don't know. I have to thing about it.....the fact is she's going to a lot of trouble to stay gone. there must be a reason.

Perhaps what my friend said to me last night was correct; that any time we talk about it or I tell her I don't want what's happening, I cause her to stay stuck in a painful place.

On my ride home from Hockey with the kids tonight, I kept flashing back to times when W would kiss me while making dinner and I'd be preoccupied and such. Sometimes she'd put her foot on top of mine to keep me near for a second longer. Those memories are 10 or 12 years old. But times like that did happen. The woman I see now has lost the sparkle in her eyes. She looks tired. When she posed for a facebook pic with D13 at their banquet Saturday, it was there. When she is alone with me or near me it is not there. I can't tell if she lets her guard down with me or if being near me makes that happen. Which woman is "real"?

I'm rambling. so many thoughts.

btw, I told W about Coach Jody on Friday. I said I'd known her and worked within these ideas since Dec 2012. She sounded interested, but mad for some reason. Not sure why...Almost of a "too little to late feeling...." My friend has said, she doesn't think it'd matter what I change or do. W will still feel unhappy until she decides to do otherwise....

[paul19510]

wow just had an amazing talk with D16 about her life and how she sees our family and our life here. god I love that kid.

[25yearsmlc]

wow just had an amazing talk with D16 about her life and how she sees our family and our life here. god I love that kid.

Nice moments are what good lives are made of...Savor this!

[paul19510]

My D16 and I talked a lot about where she sees herself and what she feels she learned by watching our M. I told her I thought it must be difficult and that I know that young ladies look up to moms as a role model for how to be a W and mom.

She stated flatly that she had no intention of repeating the lonely M she just watched. She would not treat a future H in the way she watched mom treat me. she said it was very obvious to those around us (kids family and friends) that we didn't have a friendship as a foundation and therefore now have nothing to fall back to.

She praised each of us separately, but said "....IMO, mom's not interested in being a full time mom or W and I don't think she's going to want that from the way she talks and acts. She's interested in what she wants for herself at this point and that's no attachments...." I just listened.

She further stated that she hopes that someday someone will show me the friendship, love and respect that I deserve. She hopes that whoever I choose will want to spend time with me and them (my kids) because they really didn't get that during our M and would enjoy it.

I mostly just listened but was stunned by her composure while we talked. She said she loves both of us and just thinks its sad that W doesn't really want this life while I do. But that's just the way it seems.

[25yearsmlc]

Paul

I read thru this thread and wanted to comment, although you are getting great advice.

I just wanted to chime in that I think you need to Stop the pursuit. There is a lot of it going on, despite your claims to the contrary. Did you read the "Newbie Rules"? Sandi assembled them one day and they've been modified here and there, but they would help you

You are a newbie here and yet you seem very rushed to have zero ambiguity in your life and marital situation. But there IS ambiguity. There will be for awhile. Everyone has to cope with that

OR

face the consequences of demanding A decision right away. The frequent R talks you have, under the guise of wanting to get something off your chest, to me,

reek of tactics. The whole thing about telling your w that you want/need more and that you will file with or without her,

was YOU testing her and trying out a new tactic, which was the temporary feeling of you being done. But you are far from done.

I want you to use the time you have now, more effectively. IF, and I mean IF, there is a chance to turn this around, it will have to be with

TIME and patience on YOUR END. So pull back. Pull WAY back and the way to do that, is simple but not easy. Meaning it's not complicated but it IS hard.

First, and we hammer this b/c we know it works,

GET A LIFE. That's the only way you can ever hope to DETACH,

(Detaching is the Second thing I'd hammer).

But GAL really does help the mood and it does help the self esteem. You need to do this b/c you are in charge of your self esteem. And your happiness. OH, And you know what?

You were always supposed to be in charge of Your happiness and self esteem! Not your wife. Take charge and let her see a happy self fulfilled man b/c THAT is a man women want to be with.

What were you like when you two married? Would you like to be that guy again? What would it take?

For GAL suggestions, let me mention some of what I did when we lived in the interior of Alaska, even in the winter. And I had 3 kids including a baby (so you know I don't want to hear about how 'busy' you are, or 'too busy' to GAL).
Inertia is the greatest enemy to GAL. Overcome that, & you'll be well on your way to a happier more fulfilling life. IMO, the more you overcome inertia, the better your R's will be with all people, including your w.

I volunteered at a battered women's shelter.

I coached a girl's softball team, two summers (my older D was on it).
I was on the board of directors for Wrestling, (b/c our son wrestled).
I auditioned for community theater and met some fun creative people. I got cast, too.

I did stand up comedy (and yes, I still do it). I did a whole set once on a MLCs at the Improv. It went very well.
I learned to cross country ski, became a better shooter.
I Learned to hunt big game, to deep sea fish, & I got better at downhill skiing.

I learned to use a snowmobile ("snow machine" to Alaskans)
I loved riding.
Learned to fly a plane, and I got a pilot's license.
Edited a book. (The book ended up on the Best Seller's List. Who knew?)

I Worked out 3-4 times a week, and I really did get in excellent shape. Looking good made a world of difference to me. (Plus I'd just had our last child and needed to lose the baby weight. It was not easy to do, let alone in the dark, deathly of their long LONG cold winters).

In the winter, I used a tanning booth, which helped me a lot with depression. I felt more energized, and it probably helped my appearance, which also helps us FEEL better.
(I know that those tanning booths post skin cancer risks. But I was facing a LONG brutal winter, again, and made the choice I felt was healthiest for ME at that time).

Saw a therapist and for some months, went on ADs.

Took a pottery class (very odd for me to do, but I liked it a lot).

Joined the Officer's Wives club after 15 years of active duty.

(Wish I had joined sooner! Met two women who are life long friends to this day.)

Joined a writer's group
Took a class in Conversational French
Took a class in Italian cooking

There is more, but I just wanted to suggest to you a few things you can do that do not cost a lot. Other than pilot training, most of these ^^ activities were free, or quite cheap.

Here are more comments You made, that reveal more pursuit of your w.

You wrote:

W continues to say, "I don't know" when asked about R. I want to hope and that gives me just enough to stay stuck. Its time for me to take more control of myself and move myself forward from this place emotionally and otherwise.


Paul, Stop asking her.

Stop hoping for anything of her now or anytime soon. You can Pray for the strength and courage to get thru this, (whatever "this" is), you can ask for God to protect your children.
But do Not ask your w anything right now. Just stop asking her, for now. This is a VERY NEW situation in terms of what your w is saying. You say it all "really" began 4 months ago, which is still NEW. But that includes your mind reading so I don't count it anyhow. Your wife's BD was in late November. 10 weeks? You want to KNOW the future based on this?

You state that, now that you think about it, the m was lousy before hand. Okay fair enough. So,
You were going along with things "hoping" they'd be better, but without you DOING much to make that so.

I mean, what did YOU change in yourself to ever get what you wanted in the marriage? In other words, what were you doing to make it better, before November?

I keep reading and sensing a lot of "waiting/hoping" on your end, for years??

Do you think that you feel betrayed partly b/c your "waiting" felt like patience on your end, not complacence, and now she is the one who says she is too unhappy to stay?? SHE is the one who gets fed up? Is there some of "damn, she beat me to the punch" in here?


You also wrote:

after four months....W still parks and driveway and won't come in the house. W will not engage me in any meaningful way about the M and has distanced herself from me and the kids. W knows more of what she wants than she's saying. She just doesn't want to say it. This is my opinion. I'm thinking that my W wants to be out, but wants to be able to reverse course if she guessed wrong and can't handle being out for some reason.

Let me now re post that below, but with the parts that you have no control over, crossed out. That way, we can focus only on what You CAN control, which is so much more effective and useful.

HERE is the RE-Post:

W still parks and driveway and won't come in the house. W will not engage me in any meaningful way about the M and has distanced herself from me and the kids. W knows more of what she wants than she's saying. She just doesn't want to say it. This is my opinion. I'm thinking that my W wants to be out, but wants to be able to reverse course if she guessed wrong and can't handle being out for some reason.

NOT ONE PIECE of this^^ is within your control. None of it. And you have a lot of mind reading and projection going on too.

Let this ^^^ALL^^^ go. Seriously. You are borrowing problems from the future that may never exist or that do not belong to you. I don't know why your wife is not coming inside. Maybe she feels shame? Or maybe she is simply very uncomfortable around You? This is Not your problem. Get out of her sandbox.


Here is an example of your wanting to hurry and DECIDE and BE DONE (but we all wanted that. The thing is, "Deciding" does not end the ordeal or lessen the pain. There is no fast forward button here.

I find myself going through an interesting emotion right now. I won't act on it. I have an intense feeling that I somehow hold the key to say something different. That W is merely waiting for me to say with conviction "come home....you should not be living out of a suitcase....that's not the right thing to do..."


Wow, You take your own R temperature a lot, too. Relax Paul. You are in transition. Your emotions will absolutely change, more than once. Of course you should not act on them.

The title of your thread "8 weeks still on the journey" is almost funny. 8 weeks of a journey is a very short journey on this board. My marital crisis was a good 5-6 years in the making/breaking/separating/piecing/reconciling, and the journey continues. If I had forced my h or myself to DECIDE something in 8 weeks, geez, I assume it would be divorce b/c he sure wasn't going to come home that fast. HE had his own journey and I could not rush it for him. I could not even go on it. (And I have my own journey,)

But the belief that your w is "waiting" for you to "Say something different" that will get her home, IS A LIE you are telling yourself.

You must stop it. Accept that there are things beyond your control. There is

NO single sentence or one dramatic gesture will repair a neglected marriage or fix this marital breakdown. No short cuts. Paul, Are you this way in other areas of life?

I'm a L and a wordsmith. Trust me when I say I searched and I reasoned/pleaded/argued, sometimes brilliantly. If I had been in front of the Supreme Court, I think I'd have won hands down.

But My h could not or would not hear me. And that's that.

He had his agenda and not all of it was known, by either of us. Nothing I SAID helped.
Some of my comments made things worse, & none of it changed his course of action.

So the search for the "KEY" is a quixotic waste of time that hinders REAL growth in us.
Instead of working on our issues and improving ourselves, we spend our time looking for the ONE KEY TO IT ALL, but that key is inside of us. It's our work.

And it's not a single key. Remember the adage here, that this is a marathon, not a sprint. IF this is a test, it's one of endurance, not speed. Wrap your brain around this.

Check my timeline in my signature. Off/on separation for TWO YEARS...(with 3 kids, too). Originally they were about 20, 16 and 8.

That's why I'm saying to slow down.

You have the home and the kids atm, so who is losing more, her or you? I'm not saying it's a competition, but you are clearly in the better position and you have kids to focus on. I'd make them THE priority and stop all the revolving around the w. You are placing THEIR happiness in her hands that way too, on top of your own happiness.

Your wife left for (a) reason(s) she may not know. But it/they exist(s). All you can do is work on YOU.

So dig deep to figure out what YOU must work on, in You and only you. Stop all the focus on her and her problems and what you think are her problems, etc. (Way too much about her in your posts. Not enough about what You are working on in you)

Stay in your sandbox and out of hers. Make sense?

THEN YOU WROTE:

Of course this is something my mind made up. she would probably not answer my request or she would say something like, I don't know. I have to thing about it.....the fact is she's going to a lot of trouble to stay gone. there must be a reason.


Paul, 1) maybe there is NO reason she can articulate, in which case this is a colossal waste of time on YOUR end

2) maybe the reason is too painful for her to say OR too painful for You to hear; in which case you have no business still pressuring her to explain

3) what we "know" is what she SAID & DID. She said she wanted out for now and she left. She is gone, for now. That is what we know.

4) is there really any reason you could come up with that would sound "good" to you? Since I doubt it, then I must ask, what difference does it make to your course of action?

5) Finally, you have already heard her vague answers & the "IDK". She has told you what she wants to tell you, and perhaps all that she knows. There is Nothing to ask her right now.

Did it ever occur to you that she may have mood swings too? HER emotions might change hourly or daily or weekly?

So if you force her to express those feelings then, feelings she did not want to express, you help CEMENT those comments & feelings in, all the more.

The more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them. (Which is another reason to pull WAY back, and STOP all the asking).

It's worse when you claim to be supportive of her & "accepting the choices" when it's obvious you do not. You're sending Very mixed signals to her, and probably to your kids. And confusing yourself. YOUR emotions are changing so why not take a break from all the temperature checks?

There is nothing that cools a R faster than continuously taking it's temperature.

Since You could cause the very thing you most feared, which is her leaving for good, I have to wonder if there may be a pattern of you bringing about the things you fear, by obsessing about them so much or being too needy.

Do you feel that you were needy before the BD? I sense so much unexpressed "waiting/hoping for more" from her in you.

Is it possible that your wife felt that you needed a ton of confidence building & reassurance from her? I mean, did it build up to a point where she ran out of steam, & could not keep giving you that b/c there is a hole in you that SHE could not fill?

OR was she simply never the type of person to compliment you?

IF she was, why did you choose her as your wife in the first place? Can you tell us why you fell in love with her?

You wrote:


btw, I told W about Coach Jody on Friday. I said I'd known her and worked within these ideas since Dec 2012. She sounded interested, but mad for some reason. Not sure why...Almost of a "too little to late feeling...." My friend has said, she doesn't think it'd matter what I change or do. W will still feel unhappy until she decides to do otherwis

Why did you tell your w about Jody? (I really want YOU to know why. Do you?)

You've heard that DB books are not to be shared w/spouses, They are ours for US to use.
That is b/c When we "share" the DB books, in reality we are trying to manipulate our spouse, or to prove that our changes are real, which only serves to make them look like "tactics" instead of genuine changes. If the changes were real, they'd eventually be noticed, even if not commented upon. They would not need pointing out.

So, what's up with telling your w about the coaching? What prompted you to blurt that out? You clearly attached an expectation to her reaction.

What expectation did you have? With what Hope or Goal? Did you think she'd slap her forehead and say "OMG you did that?? Wow, I'm coming home now!"??

Be honest. Dig deep. (No, really. Please dig deeper)...what did you hope?


Now I want to tell you the one thing I'm sure of, which is that:

Your wife will Not come home to the family & marriage...UNLESS

she believes marriage to You can be better/different/happier, than before.


So,
What are You DOING (not saying), to show her that?