melissag XII - must. detach.

[MamaB]

I'm sorry about the Bronco's loss! My parents were here from Colorado and Mom had to leave the room. One of the things that I'm dreading is telling our friends and the kids teachers. That is great that you have jumped that hurdle and let people in your life know what is going on with you.

[melissag]

OK. Wow. Must breathe.

Went to see the L today.

I'm really beginning to see the light. And I really need to. I've been flailing for too long, and I need to stop. I think I am ready to stop.

The L suggested I file. ASAP. Mainly because H has told me that he may be going from a partnership role at his law firm to of counsel. And if he does, I will get screwed out of my share of the value of his partnership interest. The non tangible "good will." It could still be carried over to his consulting business, but not likely.

But also because me being nice isn't helping anything. It is clear he is not looking out for me; he is looking out for himself. And sure, I can lie down and take the beating he is giving me, because I think I can get more in the negotiation, but it won't work.

She told me I need to get a backbone. She said, and I quote, "Come ON! Think like a lawyer!!"

Apparently my H is about as typical as they come. She pretty much had him pegged before I opened my mouth. The problem is that I refuse to see it that way. I don't want to think of my H as a person who would do what he is doing. But guess what. HE IS.

We are going to get D either way. But right now I am just handing over all the control to him.

My L said I need to think of this as a business transaction. Period. And I can blame anything that H is pissed off about on her. And I can still be friendly and we can be amicable but this is business.

But. She told me to withdraw $35k from our joint checking account before filing. Just in case he gets pissy and decides to cut me off financially.

I don't think he would do that, but I also didn't think he would leave me. I didn't think he would be on match.com 24/7. I didn't think he would post photos of himself with drunk chicks on FB.

I am being an idiot if I think he is looking out for me. So I need to look out for me.

She also said his proposals (which were ever-changing based on circumstances and would require constant renegotiation) would just keep me enmeshed forever. She said I am 43, and I can get my life back. But I can't do it if I don't get a clean break.

And it's true. I have been trying to keep us enmeshed. But it's a waste of time. He wants a D. Who knows what he will want five years from now, but I can't sit around waiting to find out.

So, I am of two minds about this.

On one hand:

(1) I don't want to acknowledge that my H is not who I thought he was. I thought he was better than this.

(2) I don't want to piss my H off. (Though, as my L astutely pointed out, who cares? Does he care when he goes sleeping with other women??)

(3) I don't want this to be ugly.

(4) I don't want to be the jerk in this scenario. I don't want to be the one who files. (Then again, does it really matter who filed? Maybe I will do like Betsey's H and I will put my H's name as petitioner. Ha ha.)

But on the other hand:

(1) I need to face the truth and accept what is.

(2) I need to take back some control in this R and of my own life.

(3) I need to separate my emotions from taking care of my and my kids' future.

(4) I need to set some boundaries so I am not constantly having to see and talk to my H.

Also, my C seems to think that it will be better for me to get through this as quickly as possible. She doesn't want me wasting my energy on this stuff when I could be using it to make a new life for myself.

Whew.

Would love any thoughts. Encouragement. Discouragement. Anything.

[Underdog]

Hey Melissa!

I played hooky on Friday so it took me all day to catch up. Plus, it just took longer since I'm depressed about yesterday. Blech.

I was going to write you on Friday but your thread locked. So I'll answer your question from last week now. I grew up in northern VA, and most of my family are still back in the state (from Lynchburg to Staunton to NoVa). I'm not one to yell Wahoowa, though I did attend Mary Washington. My sister is a USNA grad and my dad started at William & Mary but graduated from American. My cousins are scattered and went all over the place. So glad to know another VA alum. I have more Hokie friends, but that's probably because they're mostly engineers?

Hey, I'm glad your L helped you get your head on straight. Look, I'll say this through the overall sentiment that I hope for all of you to get your marriages back. But when they leave, one is left to deal with the business aspects of splitting up financially. Your L is right that it's a business transaction. So I'm glad she helped you frame that aspect of things.

And like I've said before, I know quite a few folks that got things worked out long after the D happened.

Okay, so I laughed when I read your filing comments. In the eyes of our state, they don't care who does it. So I have no feedback on your commentary because I think going down this path WILL help you detach and get back to your center.

Uh, take her advice on getting some cash set aside. Especially if your H does decide to change his professional status. That's all corporate status and her advice was spot on.

From one who knows, the minimum time it takes from filing to the D is 91 days. Mine happened in that timeframe because we converted all our MOAs and settlements in mediation to the D. Then we had to attend the court mandated parenting class and voila! I was single again! (This is totally tongue in cheek, just in case anyone is wondering.) It took longer to buy our RV than to get a D.

As far as your H being on match.com all the time... if he doesn't log out, he stays logged in. I'm not saying he's not a bozo for being there in the first place. 'Cause he is.

Time to head to the chiropractor. I need that adjustment really badly.

TTFN,

Betsey

[labug]

What does Melissa want? Your vote it the one that matters.

[25yearsmlc]

OK. Wow. Must breathe.

Went to see the L today.

I'm really beginning to see the light. And I really need to. I've been flailing for too long, and I need to stop. I think I am ready to stop.

Yes...and I'm so glad you feel better!


The L suggested I file. ASAP. Mainly because H has told me that he may be going from a partnership role at his law firm to of counsel.

Whoah...wth? WHY is he going "of counsel"?? NOT a good sign...very scary. Get some money set up now. I'd be very concerned if I were in your shoes. At least if he were a partner you'd know there is some money but "of counsel"...at how many firms? Just that one? I don't see an upside to this.


And if he does, I will get screwed out of my share of the value of his partnership interest. The non tangible "good will." It could still be carried over to his consulting business, but not likely.

Only HIS clients will come to him, and only SOME at that, and virtually none of the clients who have used the whole firm. What is he saying, that he is going to be a sole practitioner?


But also because me being nice isn't helping anything. It is clear he is not looking out for me; he is looking out for himself.

HOLD ON...being nice may not have gotten him back, but I promise you that being mean won't help either. There is no punishing him home. But, I agree that being complacent only gets you so far. I'm glad you are having an awakening.


And sure, I can lie down and take the beating he is giving me, because I think I can get more in the negotiation, but it won't work.

She told me I need to get a backbone. She said, and I quote, "Come ON! Think like a lawyer!!"

Apparently my H is about as typical as they come. She pretty much had him pegged before I opened my mouth. The problem is that I refuse to see it that way. I don't want to think of my H as a person who would do what he is doing. But guess what. HE IS.

We are going to get D either way. But right now I am just handing over all the control to him.

You do not "KNOW" That you are getting D "either way" but if you believe that then you may end up making some choices you do regret.

All I am saying is, you will never regret behaving like a woman of strength and dignity, who faced a hard blow to the heart with the courage to make some big changes in herself and her life.


My L said I need to think of this as a business transaction. Period. And I can blame anything that H is pissed off about on her. And I can still be friendly and we can be amicable but this is business.


this^^ I agree with. Keep the business SEPARATE from the interactions. One is business and the other is love/family...so go ahead, blame the lawyers!

But. She told me to withdraw $35k from our joint checking account before filing. Just in case he gets pissy and decides to cut me off financially.

May I assume that is half the money in the joint accounts? I took enough money to pay the bills for 2 months "in case" and h never even noticed...(seriously, that showed a lot of MLC b/c he was very frugal and keeps records for years).

And can you keep detailed records of where the money goes if you feel the need to.

AND Do you trust the L's judgement?

I don't think he would do that, but I also didn't think he would leave me. I didn't think he would be on match.com 24/7. I didn't think he would post photos of himself with drunk chicks on FB.

I am being an idiot if I think he is looking out for me. So I need to look out for me.

She also said his proposals (which were ever-changing based on circumstances and would require constant renegotiation) would just keep me enmeshed forever. She said I am 43, and I can get my life back. But I can't do it if I don't get a clean break.

And it's true. I have been trying to keep us enmeshed. But it's a waste of time. He wants a D. Who knows what he will want five years from now, but I can't sit around waiting to find out.

So, I am of two minds about this.

On one hand:

(1) I don't want to acknowledge that my H is not who I thought he was. I thought he was better than this.

(2) I don't want to piss my H off. (Though, as my L astutely pointed out, who cares? Does he care when he goes sleeping with other women??)

(3) I don't want this to be ugly.

(4) I don't want to be the jerk in this scenario. I don't want to be the one who files. (Then again, does it really matter who filed? Maybe I will do like Betsey's H and I will put my H's name as petitioner. Ha ha.)

But on the other hand:

(1) I need to face the truth and accept what is.

(2) I need to take back some control in this R and of my own life.

(3) I need to separate my emotions from taking care of my and my kids' future.

(4) I need to set some boundaries so I am not constantly having to see and talk to my H.

this^^ I can agree with parts of, or maybe, all of.


Also, my C seems to think that it will be better for me to get through this as quickly as possible. She doesn't want me wasting my energy on this stuff when I could be using it to make a new life for myself.

Whew.

Would love any thoughts. Encouragement. Discouragement. Anything.

NOT so sure about your C's words...part of me thinks she is right. Part of me thinks

Her job is easier if you take that advice and give up on your h and she can help you recreate your new life.

To a lot of C's, and T's, it seems that fighting FOR the m, is too hard. It's easier for many of friends and family members to tell me to tell my h off.

To get rid of him was easier for THEM, but not necessarily for ME...or my kids.

Get some space and take some breaths. See what feels true and honorable for you.

I read ONE thing the other day from my past, that helped.

Which was that I did not want to look myself in the mirror when I'm 90 years old and have to face that I made some decisions NOT in the best interests of my kids.

Melissa, consider this proposal: do right by your kids, and you will never regret it. Start with that.

[2ndTimeHurt]

Breathe is right. Sounds like a handful to deal with. Better make sure you have your clear-thinking cap on!

[paul19510]

OK. Wow. Must breathe.

But on the other hand:

(1) I need to face the truth and accept what is.

(2) I need to take back some control in this R and of my own life.

(3) I need to separate my emotions from taking care of my and my kids' future.

(4) I need to set some boundaries so I am not constantly having to see and talk to my H.

Also, my C seems to think that it will be better for me to get through this as quickly as possible. She doesn't want me wasting my energy on this stuff when I could be using it to make a new life for myself.

Whew.

Would love any thoughts. Encouragement. Discouragement. Anything.

Mi M! I like what you've gotten from the people you asked for help. Its good to have as much information as you can to make a good decision. My L told me he was impressed that I wanted to try and save my M. he encouraged me to try for a couple more months. My coach told me it was reasonable given the amount of time (years in fact) that I have tried to communicate with my W and ask her to work with me to meet both of our needs, that I tell her that I can't continue to wait around much longer. The T or C that you talked to can't say for sure what will happen.

Standing is not an absolute must in my mind. I just saw a person in here that has been "standing" for 10 years. His W has made no real attempt to reconcile according to what he writes. I could not and would not do that.

Each of us comes here with different wants and needs. I believe Sandi and Bug were able to reconcile, but their personal growth and their continued good will efforts as well as her personal preferences played a role in that (sorry to use you as an example Bug and Sandi, but I am very impressed by the advice and support and your success because of your character that I was hard to resist).

I guess my point is, that what you are doing (by coming here) is by no means a waste of time and energy. It is also not in any way a failure to consider moving forward or moving on. You are giving H what he asked for and you are taking a step to live you life. Read the last chapter of DR and DB again. MWD says that sometimes, despite our best efforts, we don't save the current M. We can however continue to make ourselves better people, better partners and potentially better spouses to someone who will appreciate what we have to offer.

I applaud your courage and please know that people here will stand behind you. look at the "friends" you've made here and you may also understand that what you are doing here is not in vain. sorry to run on, but I see your recent actions/decisions as somewhat parallel to my own upcoming one and I feel passionate about it.

I have one more thought, when I asked my W to marry me, we were cuddled on a blanket in front of a fire. I gave her a ring I had taken some time to choose. When the ring was ruined in a accident years later (also during a 10 day separation where I left because she would not engage me and I felt completely alone), I went back and had an exact replica made even though the designer had stopped making anything like it. I told her I believed in her. I took my a year to save to buy the new ring. I promised to love and care for her... to protect her heart as though it were my own. She stopped coming to dinner with me and the kids, stopped going out anywhere with me. When I reached for her hand on date nights (the 2 or 3 per year she allowed) she put her hand in her pocket. I read countless books, tried db'ing from December 2012 to now. Have been to 3 different IC's and done countless hours of reflection and change. W stopped protecting my heart a long time ago. I offered to do whatever I could to keep my end of the promise. You have done much the same. Act with kindness and integrity. Show your kids that and no matter what you choose, you will never be wrong. Live tied (in the legal sense) to your current H so you can say you 'saved the M'....that's not going to help you or the kids. just my 24 cents (not 2 cents because I ran on so long)

[melissag]

Hi guys. Thanks for the replies. My kids are happily playing in the jacuzzi right now (why didn't I think of this idea when I needed an hour to cry earlier in my sitch?) so I have a bit of time to post.

I am not sure that I have a 100% clear thinking cap at all right now, and might not for a while. Yet I still need to make decisions.

I think that if there was not the issue of H's partnership interest, I would probably take a few weeks to think. But I am not sure I have that luxury. If I were to lose out on hundreds of thousands of dollars bc I was too afraid to pull the trigger, that would be a major regret. And, I am sure, a whole boat load of resentment toward H.

I do not want to be the one to file for D. But I wonder if that's some sort of principle that is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

labug. What Melissa wants is the M and the H I thought I had. But wanting that has kept me stuck. Right now, wanting that is like wanting the sky to be green. Constant disappointment.

About H's change of status with his law firm. Long story short, he has tons of extra time b/c his firm doesn't keep him that busy, and he can make a lot more money providing counsel to clients (his clients, not firm clients) outside of the firm. So he would still work for the firm's clients through the firm in an of counsel role, while having an outside consulting business to augment his income. He started talking about this before BD, but I don't know if it is all coincidental, or if he has been divorce planning for longer than I know.

I REALLY want to believe that he is not trying to be sneaky, but I just cannot trust him. It breaks my heart to think that, but it's the undeniable truth. Most of what he has said since BD has been said to further his own agenda, not to honor the truth or look out for my interests or feelings.

I wasn't very careful with my words when I said that being nice has gotten me nowhere. i didn't mean that I would now be mean, or unkind, or anything of the sort. I think what I meant by "nice" in the first place was more like, "accommodating" or "doormat." It was as if I didn't want to bother him, and I just wanted to please him and never do anything that might upset him (even to my detriment) . . . and where am I now? I am still in the exact same place. Except feeling even dumber for asking "how high" when he asks me to jump.

The issue is more that I feel like a mean person if I file. I feel like a mean person if I take money out of our joint account. WHY??

That is true, I do not KNOW with certainty that I am getting a D either way. But look, if H decides he doesn't want to get D (highly unlikely at this point), then what difference does it make whether I file or not? Is me filing going to stop him from wanting to R?

All I am saying is, you will never regret behaving like a woman of strength and dignity, who faced a hard blow to the heart with the courage to make some big changes in herself and her life.

Can't I still do this if I file? I think that it takes courage for me to file, because it means that I have to accept what is, and take the steps to make sure I am OK.

I just want to make sure that I am not filing because I think it will somehow make me feel better. I don't think I am. I recognize that I will still have to go through this same grieving/healing process regardless of who files. I do think that I will feel surface better in a way, knowing that I have some control over what is happening, rather than just sitting around waiting to see what my H decides to do. When I do that, I tend to start feeling victimized, which is a role I have no interest in playing.

The money would be less than half of what is in the joint account. So it wouldn't be slimy or sneaky. And honestly, my H probably won't notice either.

About my C . . . this whole time, she has been helping me with whatever direction I want to go. Which, for the most part, has been trying to repair my M. It wasn't until I indicated last week (after getting the next steps email) that this seems that it will really happen, that she mentioned not dragging this out.

Which was that I did not want to look myself in the mirror when I'm 90 years old and have to face that I made some decisions NOT in the best interests of my kids.

Melissa, consider this proposal: do right by your kids, and you will never regret it. Start with that.

For once in my life, I just don't have a strong feeling one way or the other. ACK!

I think that what is in the best interest of my kids is for H and I to work on our M and raise them in a happy, intact home. But that is not one of my options. And sitting around meekly waiting for my H to decide my life (and potentially give away a rather valuable marital asset) doesn't seem like a good alternative.

I think I can stand up for myself and still go through this with dignity and grace. I don't ever want my kids to think I am a victim. And I think that if I allow H to drive this bus (and potentially rape me financially in the process), I will always see myself as a victim and him as the perpetrator. I think that is bad for my self esteem and bad for my future co-parenting R with my H.

The problem I am having with filing myself really comes down to it being ME who made this happen. But that's just BS. It's not like me not filing is going to stop him from filing.

[labug]

labug. What Melissa wants is the M and the H I thought I had. But wanting that has kept me stuck. Right now, wanting that is like wanting the sky to be green.

My question was posed in relation to what your L and your C suggested.

I don't think anyone should be stuck and I hope you're able to move forward.

[melissag]

I hit submit too soon, but glad I did, because just saw Paul's post.

First of all, Paul, thank you for your kind words. It really does mean a lot. I don't even really think of you all as strangers, but as friends.

I should make it clear. If my H said (with sincerity) that there was any chance of R, I would go to the ends of the earth to make it happen. None of this is me saying, "I'm tired of this," or, "I want to move on," or "I want closure." It's not me trying to teach my H a lesson, or a ploy to get him to come back. My H isn't like 3's H, who still has one foot (or a toe, anyway) in the M. My sitch is not like labug's, with no contact for a long while, but her H not filing for D. My H has said very clearly, he does not want to be married, and he wants to move things along in that direction..

I wish like crazy that there was something I could do to make this M work, and to provide a two-parent home for our children.

But if H is hell bent on getting D (which it sure seems he is), sitting around letting him drive the bus is only going to hurt me. It will do nothing to further my goals of having a good M and an intact home for my kids.

Just what you said, Paul:

Live tied (in the legal sense) to your current H so you can say you 'saved the M'....that's not going to help you or the kids.

I really do care a lot about principle. But sometimes, you just have to live your life based on the ugly reality, not on principle. Because having some holier-than-thou feeling because *I* didn't file for D isn't going to keep me warm at night. It's not going to pay for my kids' education. It's not going to help me move forward with my life.

Betsey, aside from your feelings of injustice about who filed, did it make a bit of difference in your life or your children's lives that you are shown as the Petitioner on the D petition? I think that came out sounding like a challenge, but it really comes from a place of curiosity.

I am PETRIFIED of moving forward right now. I DO NOT want to be D. I truly, truly don't. But pushing things off for another what? month? two? or however long it takes my H to get the ball rolling, is not worth what I could lose if I don't file now and preserve my financial rights.

I know I am rambling on tonight, and I think I may have already said this, but I can't take the risk of sitting around waiting for my H to possibly have a change of heart. And honestly, in the highly unlikely event that he does have a change of heart, he can stop the D.

It's kind of like I was telling Dingo earlier - WASs know how to say "I don't want to get D." or "I want to R." And if they do want these things, they will say so. Is that not right?