own a buz 20: confused within the confusion

[KenF]

We discussed dating websites, etc. I said that since he is checking out the "other side" maybe that I should too."

That is so controlling and manipulative. Not "truth". but, it IS the truth... I have considered, but can't see myself liking it much



Its manipulative because your intention was to make him jealous and therefore manipulate his actions. It has nothing to do with you considering it.

any time you say or do something to try to force a reaction from someone its manipulation. you're not giving them the space to make the decision on their own.

you are using your words, your txts, your boundaries to manipulate him to want to come back to you. But in reality, that manipulation pushes him away.

it is impossible for you to just let him make the decision on his own.

[makingmagic]

Hmmm... I dont think I was trying to make him jealous, but to be honest about where he is at, and maybe I should be too. But, I can see how it might look like it was said to make him jealous.

AS for the boundary... i was following the DB technique. Why is the rule different for me than others on this board? I see plenty of people being told to set the boundary then stick to it.

Yes, I see how manipulation can push them away. Just not sure how my texts/words are doing that.

I see what you say tho... I need to just let him make the decision on his own.

[makingmagic]

I think a light just went off in me.... Although many of you suggested that I am controlling and manipulative... I was, but not intentionally.. I didn't see it... I do now and am now understanding "self-interjecting" I am seeing things a lot clearer suddenly. I see how my ways of self injecting will not lead to him making a decision on his own. The decision he needs to make on his own. I see that now. I see how I am placing my will into it. AND, ultimately.... I want him to decide based on his own decision, not because I steered it.

I didn't hear from him all night tonight... sure hope I didn't spook the squirrel.

As for focusing on myself.. I also understand the benefit of that too. That it takes the focus off him so that he can figure it out, while I focus on ME, which helps towards my "valuing self" goal. If I focus more on my self, then I am not IN HIS confusion. (I did mention that his confusion was HIS yesterday).

In "Valuing Self"... I see that I need to take responsibility & to trust my own judgement. To allow my "thoughts" not be clouded by my emotion and to trust my instinct. That I need to think for myself. A 180 for me... as I have completely allowed/enabled H to think for me, as it was easier to keep the peace than to stand up for myself. Also, to not allow him to mistreat me (he is learning that I will not accept his behaviour, therefore is learning to treat me better, or there are consequences. This respect, can be attractive. I was too afraid to respect myself before, for fear that he would be angry at me.... now... he treats me better....WOW! (we do teach others how to treat ourself!!...TRUE!! He is also, responding well to following by example....as he likes that I am a positive person, and its inspiring him to be more positive, and see the glass as half full. Even discussing goal setting with me. (when I lead, he will follow..180).

Things I know:
-he is attracted to me
-he misses me/our life
-he appreciates our history & our resilient factor
-he wants to remain in business with me
-he wants me to be happy
-he is scared of mediation, but wants me to be secure
-he wants to spend more time with DD
-he is jealous of my social life
-he wonders of me with another man (doesn't like)
-he admitted to needing help

-he is attracted to OW (but what specifically), she is different, independent, has been let down by other guys, cannot rely on guys. he felt used when she called to rescue, so he did not go. he is not sure of her, as she doesn't contact him much.

Things to work on:
-focus on self
-more patience
-more inner peace/ self-worth talk
-accept where he is at. "i don't know" = confusion! Period NOT that he is ready to R.
-not getting what I want despite my instinct (my instinct knew that he wasn't into the 2nd talk yesterday, I should have listened to myself... but pressed on. Eventually I realized he was CLOSED, so I stopped)
-how not to be "needy"... not sure this is clear to me yet.
-Don't ASK him anything, listen, do not ask for more than he shares. Do not try to pull information out of him. DONT ask questions about OW.
-Don't give ultimatums ... not sure this is clear either.
-Give him MORE space.
-Give me space too (take space when not struggling).
-listen & hear my inner voice (not emotion, but head) - learn to differentiate.
-learn more independence (although he says he prefers I lean on him for certain things)... differentiate???
-be more aware of trying to direct of "self-injecting" outcomes
-try playful interations (toss a snowball), but pull back... make working fun with me. (less stressful)... need suggestions!
-don't ask or look for answers to questions all within one convo. Its ok to leave with some questions unanswered or to be continued at another time.
-dont expect answers to everything immediately... and for me to be ok with that.

~~~~~
If I am missing anything or you have a concern, please feel free to speak up!! I will welcome all comments.

Tx, MM

[makingmagic]

In reviewing another sitch on the boards, I wonder if the same would apply to me:

~ it was perceived to another that his WAW was putting pressure on him to see if he had been dating, this was viewed as "always being there" for her. That she was getting him to "prove" to her of his status. .... Hmm, I layed all my cards on the table on Friday night as he was fishing for answers. I guess this was not the best thing to do, as it doesn't leave him "wondering". I believe I recovered my position, when I stated that I may consider the dating scene, as he was too. And then didn't sit at home on Friday night, he knew I went out....

I do believe h is trying to keep his foot in both sides, keeping his options open (not necessarily intentional or knowingly either)... just is! He really needs to know that I will not be 2nd choice. As stated on this other thread, I should not act in fear. That my fear is greater than my dignity/self-worth. So, I am listening here and raising the bar. I am holding to my stance of setting a boundary and feel good that I stated, as long as there is interest in OW, I cannot have interest in you.... not sure why some of you state that this may not be the best choice for me? That you consider it an ultimatum.

I also like the advice on the other thread how I could speak up and let him know that "I" am the one that requires space now, to decide what "I" want from this point forward, and to do what is best for "me". AND "H, this is about me and what I deserve, and I deserve to have a man who loves me completely and I don't have to worry about him wanting to seek greener grassl". ..... although, I don't know if I am quite in the position to say this yet. .... this kind of stuff may make him want to give up, like I feel he is trying to tell me thats what he was doing when he thought I had a boyfriend.

Thoughts?

[makingmagic]

ok GM... I just don't know how to respond when he says something... looking to me for a reply. However, None of it is intentional manipulation, just my feelings

[makingmagic]

ok again.. get it.

When he says he recalls an old comment that i had made where I stated that I will feel justified and good about myself as I know that I did my very best in this relationship. He sees that as a statement from the "past" not current. He says he recognizes that I did do things near the end to save us... but, I want him to know that what I am doing NOW and for the past year is the "work" I will feel good about. But, I guess thats a comment that can be saved for a later time, if he should ask about it again.

[ericmsant2]

making magjc.

I was out and about catching up on a few poster and saw your thread. I think Gmom23 is spot on. I only wanted to add one thing...

but, I want him to know that what I am doing NOW and for the past year is the "work" I will feel good about.

Action speak louder than words. The "work" you are doing will show by your actions. No need to remind him cause your actions should be enough.

That said, I understand you may feel like he will not "see it". Maybe he will...maybe he will not. If the work is done for YOU then it really should not matter if he does or does not see it.

Peace
Eric

[makingmagic]

ohhh thanks everyone... I was saying that I wished that I had said that in hindsight, not that I was looking to say it currently.

Im pretty sure we had a GOOD day today:

Met H at work, I was late... (he didn't comment about it). We shovelled alot of snow together. Then he disappeared to pick up burgers and coffee (would have been a surprize if I hadn't called wondering where he disappeared too). We sat and ate & lightly discussed movies. Then back to work. Shovelling some more, I decided to start throwing snowballs at him. He smiled and acted shocked at first, I kept throwing until he said he wasnt liking the snow as he gets enough of it. I said OK, but he makes a great target. He said "Im sure I am" but I said that I was not aiming for his head. A little later, both of our phones were dead and we went to plug in. This was the FIRST time he has left his phone unguarded... he even went on a test drive and left the phone behind. I did not look at it (although it has a pw anyway). Then it was time to go, and he drove me back to my house. He stopped for a few groceries on the way, my sock were soaked and I was warming my feet on the car heaters...he asked if I needed anything. I did, cereal. When we got back to my place, I did NOT ask him to come in, but thanked him for the cereal. Im pretty sure that he said we had a good day. When I got in, I took a pic of my soggy socks pinned up against my fireplace & text sent it to him and my DD. Saying "does this count as hanging your stockings on the mantle? LOL, im early. He didnt reply, but my DD did. She said that he may not have gotten it as it was a group message. SO, about a half hour later, I resent it. He replied "I will stick with the pleasant memories I have of other Christmas stockings we shared". I replied "awwww, so sweet. did I send that pic to you twice?" explaining that I had sent it to DD too. He replied "yipx2" and then "cant take away the good memories"......

AWESOME !!!! BUT, I cannot get too excited about this stuff as he has admitted to me many times before of how he loved our Christmases, etc.... I cannot assume that this is him warming up... just being nice.

Lowered expectations.

But... nice of him to acknowledge.

When I stopped replying... he texted my daughter...

[makingmagic]

Hi GM... having a tough time understanding what you wrote. I will try to grasp it as best I can. I think what you mean is about me saving the comment for later... I meant a whole other time/place if R was ever on the table. Being honest about the discoveries I have made and learned. Is this what you mean GM?

One of the things I am struggling with is similar to my friend on another thread:

"he is afraid that we will fall into old habits and go back to our old ways of reacting to each other. I don't know what to say to these things. If he asks me what I think, I just say 'I don't know what to say - you know how I feel about that'. But that's a trap too because then she asks me how I feel and I fall, reinforcing that I am still there for him to come back to."..... any thoughts on this?


I forgot to add above, I was also shovelling snow on to him several times without my knowledge. He said "hey, do you mind? you are throwing snow in my boots"... I looked up and laughed. I think today, I was able to show that inspite of the yucky stuff we are dealing with, that I can be "happy" inspite of his confusion. That I am taking charge of my atmosphere. Also, there was a bit of "touch" today too. He was laying underneath a vehicle, and I wanted to see what was going on under there, so I touched his shoulder so that I could see along side of him. I then later got on my back and under the vehicle too, when I was trying to get back up, he put his hand out to help me up.... nice!

But, then again... he is a nice guy.

[KenF]

one thing i think you should work on, is that you very rarely take responsibility for yourself.

one common theme that runs through all your threads is that any time anyone points out something you've done/said, you claim its been misread, or misinterpreted, or it was good intentions, etc etc. you claim sometimes you're slow to understand as if its some hereditary intelligence factor and therefore not your fault. or that you didnt understand our advice until after you did the opposite. or you claim its some lightbulb moment as if it has not always been your responsibility to read and contemplate what we've all been telling you. or you blame MrBond for something he said that you took wrong.

even the claim of MLC is a way to dodge responsibility, as if this is all on him and some biological/psychological phase he's going through, which implies it has nothing to do with you and your actions.

again, this is not about him. this is about you.