Don't know if im on the edge anymore or not....

[paul19510]

One other thing. Not uncommon I wouod think to feel resentful even now that she's approaching you. Just be aware of it.

[sandi2]

Did she not say something to the effect that she didn't know if he was the right one, but if it not that she might consider dating? I can't remember exact words, but I thought you told us. If I'm wrong, I apologize.

I'm glad you told her about giving you time to think about what you want. See how surprised she was? She is taking you for granted that you will stay near by......as her plan B.

I will warn you about something. Don't get into her accusing you of seeing someone else, or whatever she said was why you didn't answer her email. That is the same as putting pressure on you to make sure you prove to her you are always there for her! Never make any promises, never swear you won't see someone or do anything you choose to do! I don't know the tone she used, but she was fishing again.

Leave her wondering! You don't have to give an account. You have not been the one unfaithful.

So, did you ask her not to contact you so "you" could have space to sort things out?

[makingmagic]

Hi ~ hope its ok, I'd like to chime in...

Dingo, you are getting awesome advice from Sandi..... I am in a similar boat, however getting a different perspective on my thread... (probably because I didn't understand and couldn't grasp things, until this weekend)... Its weird, when you read another's story, you can see the advice so much clearer.... Maybe if you read mine, you may pick up some valuable tips.

I particularly like what sandi said:

"I will warn you about something. Don't get into her accusing you of seeing someone else, or whatever she said was why you didn't answer her email. That is the same as putting pressure on you to make sure you prove to her you are always there for her! Never make any promises, never swear you won't see someone or do anything you choose to do! I don't know the tone she used, but she was fishing again.

Leave her wondering! You don't have to give an account. You have not been the one unfaithful. "

I wonder, if she would say the same in my sitch? Just this past weekend, My h went "fishing" for these answers from me, as he says that "thinking/believing" I was dating made him make the decisions he has made (to try to move on)...or is THAT BS!! and reaching for an excuse to lessen the guilt of his dating scene? I wonder if it was "wrong" to inform him that I am not dating. I TOTALLY proved to him that I WAS STILL HERE (oops)...therefore he can carry the guilt? Or did telling him I am not dating also give him a sense of relief and is now consistently being nicer & way more responsive towards me (and has said he is considering reconciliation, but "doesn't know")..... hmmmmmm, things to think about.

Over the weekend, I gave my h the "boundary" speech... to which I thought was part of DB'ing.... although on my thread it is considered a controlling ultimatum (and I am told not to do)....this is confusing to me, as I was not intentional on the controlling part, but to state/protect myself. Just this past weekend, I also invited h to spend time at my place just to hang out, when he declined (disappointed) as I felt that I had laid all my cards on the table that said "here I am waiting and waiting"... so when he texted me later that night I said "can't chat, heading out"... it was the truth, but a bit of reality to say and to bring myself back into the position "i haven't been dating, but Im putting myself in a place that it may happen". Hopefully, he doesn't see it as a game, but the reality.

When Sandi says "Now listen carefully please, if your fear is greater than your dignity as a man......then she can see it. I promise you she will never be attracted to you if you operate from a position of fear. You will never be "enough" for her and she will continue to search for the next AP.".... I have this exact fear too, so reading it on your thread was clear... WE do not want to look pathetic/desperate...its not attractive to them.

As Paul19501 suggests.... both your wife and my h, are keeping their options open. This [censored]. And like you, I do not know how to be or respond.... I will however, value myself FIRST and know that I deserve better than this state of confusion.

I really like how Sandi suggests this for you, I wonder if she would suggest the same to me (it may conflict what others on my thread suggest...or maybe more of the same): "you need to speak up and let her know that "you" are the one who needs space from her now. Tell her "you" need to think about what "you" want from this point forward, and to do what is best for "you".

Sound a little self-centered? It's okay. I am saying all of this hoping you won't do it just as a tactic to get the girl in the end, but b/c you get your eyes opened and stop making everything about her. You may even have to spell it out and tell her, "W, this is about me and what I deserve, and I deserve to have a wife who loves me completely and I don't have to worry about her being faithful".

I hope this does not come across as a hijack on your thread. I just wanted to pop in and say that the advice you are getting differs from mine (its a different angle, but ALL GOOD)... I like all the advice, comments and welcome Sandi's opinion/experience too.

Good luck Dingo, I will continue to read on!!!

Magic

[labug]

Dingo, use the time you asked for wisely, to really dig deep and figure out who you are, what you want in life, your values.

People without those things (and here it comes ) and without strong boundaries lose themselves in Rs. They aren't even really "there" to their partners. They become more of a convenience in some areas and a hindrance in others. Does that make sense?

While you're taking your time, do read Codependent No More.

[labug]

I just read another thread and Acc wrote this, which gets to the heart of what I wrote above:

I think your bar for success should be your own personal growth independent from the marriage. I would focus on why you found yourself one down in your marriage and what you can do to prevent that from happening going forward. From my cheap seats in the bleachers your challenge is not deficiency as a spouse -- it's more an issue of self worth and boundary enforcement. Nail that and you are likely to have a happy wife because you are a confident no compromises husband.

I fear that seeking to "better meet her needs" will deepen your one down position. You probably have more of a challenge in demanding that your needs be met.

I would put all the affair and marriage healing thoughts on hold and dig way deep on you first. If you do that well the marriage and affair recovery will fall into place.

Don't take this the wrong way, you're not a basket case or a pushover or anything, just a guy with vulnerabilities ...

[labug]

makingmagic, why don't you just ask sandi? Do you communicate with your H in this circuitous way?

Be direct, ask for what you need. What's the worst that could happen?

[makingmagic]

Hey Labug... I would like to ask for Sandi's advice... but, didn't know how to reach her exactly... she may be too busy helping others, and I don't want to "assume" she wants to help another.

Thanks, Magic

[dingo]

Thanks for chiming in MM. Feel free to hijack away. I think we can all learn from each other's experiences and from advice given. I will take some time to catch up on your thread later this afternoon.

I wanted to take some time and just post some thoughts I have had since my conversation with my wife yesterday and reading some of the subsequent posts.

I don't know if i feel 'good' about things after my discussion with her. I do feel that I deserve more than I am getting - a lot more than I am getting but what is keeping me stuck is the commitment I made (for better or worse - bleh) and the fact that I recognize that I am partly responsible for the situation because of where I was emotionally earlier in our relationship. I feel like I owe it to myself, her and us to not abandon her during her trials like she did for me during mine. Yes, i recognize that she has abandoned me since but she hung in for a long time.

Anyway - I finally understand all of the advice over the past few days. The key is that I was making everything about her and not about me. I guess I still am. Unfortunately, my goals conflict. If I were able to focus on what is right for me, I would have D'd her back in the summer. I would have sold our house and moved into a smaller apartment. I would probably be dating by now and maybe in a much better place personally. This brings me back full circle to my inability to separate hope and expectations and detaching from giving up.

Also, I truly believe that my wife does not want our marriage to end, she just does not see a clear path forward. I realize that this could just be wishful thinking or what I want to believe but that's an honest assessment of where I am right now. Yesterday she told me she had gathered up all the things the OM gave her and stuff that he had left at her place and was going to give it back. She says things like 'sometimes i wish you would just file to light a fire under my ass' and 'i know what i have to do and what the right thing to do is, and i don't know why i can't just do it'. I look at these things as someone who is not willing to take responsibility for the situation that they are in or the choices that they have made and is looking for someone else to make decisions for them. Unfortunately for me, I can sympathize because before we were married, I had a lot of similar thoughts while, of all things, under an addiction (to a video game).

I know that she is struggling terribly with things. She has admitted as much. She is afraid I won't be able to forgive her, or trust her or that we will fall into old habits and go back to our old ways of reacting to each other. I don't know what to say to these things. In the past I rationalized and that didn't get me anywhere. Then I took the approach to agree with her and she turned that around on me - 'see, you think its hopeless too.' So now I just say nothing. If she asks me what I think, I just say 'I don't know what to say - you know how I feel about that'. But that's a trap too because then she asks me how I feel and I either fall into the rationalization trap or reinforcing that I am still there for her to come back to.

One of the big questions I have is actually the same thing MM asked above. When my wife claimed that my lack of a response to her was that I was seeing someone else, I didn't answer her question directly. I just said that the reason I didn't respond to her was that we had agreed not to talk and had nothing to do with whether I was or was not seeing someone else. Nevertheless, she has mentioned in the past that if I was to see someone, it would let her know that I had no more interest in working on things with her and so would make her decision easier. Its a bullsh!t double standard but what's the response? She has also done this in the past for lesser 'infractions' - like me not responding to her emails or me telling her I need space to figure out what I want. It seems like its just giving her an excuse and in the past, I have caved but I think the proper response is 'tough sh1t'.

So yes - I guess I am afraid that if I walk, she won't follow. But more accurately, I am afraid that if I walk, she will use that as an excuse and also that I will have regrets that I didn't do enough. I guess this is co-dependent behavior but where do you draw the line between being patient, giving space, not pressuring, etc. in a proper way vs. in a co-dependent way?

A few final points:
1. I don't think she's ever said that she intends to date around although she has said numerous times that she's not convinced the OM is right for her. I think this is truly about her inability to see a positive future between she and I, because she is addicted to the OM and certain things he gives her.

2. I did specifically tell her that I wanted time to sort out what I wanted. That's when she responded with 'i thought you wanted to work on the marriage'. I told her that has been my position and as of this moment, it still is, but that I have to consider what I want for my life, what I feel I deserve and how long I am willing to wait on her.

3. I don't think I am resentful. Most of the time when I think about it, I really just feel sorry for her. She has gotten herself (and me) into an awful mess that is going to be very painful for her to get out of - no matter which option she chooses. She keeps taking the easier path (at that particular moment) and it keeps getting her deeper and deeper. You would think by now she would recognize that in the 8 months since she's started this relationship, her life has gone nowhere but downhill. You read all these articles about affairs never being worth it and she is stuck thinking that she is the exception - even though the evidence is showing otherwise.

4. I am not necessarily pinning my hopes on the OMs actions (he obviously struggles with boundaries too). I fully recognize that any meaningful action has to come from her.

5. For what its worth, she has recognized that she needs to talk with a counselor and told me that she would be making an appointment with a DB coach this week. I don't know what they provide to a WAS but I assume they are pro-marriage from that side of the coin as well. I told her that she's welcome to my sessions as long as she doesn't waste them and that the person she talked to would probably encourage her to at least strongly consider working on her marriage. She said she knew that and that's the perspective she's looking for.

[completelylost]

Dingo, I feel you I truly do and my heart goes out to you. And yes you did say for better or worse and that's regardless of her committment right now. Find the Dingo you want to be and be him. Truth is we can follow all this great advice and they still leave, I like this board but it's a 'supplement' for me just like i'm a personal trainer and I eat pretty healthy but I also take supplements to help make minor tweaks to my physique. To me my foundation is Christ and if you put your trust in man and our falliable wisdom you will be let down eventually, i.e. spouses that WAW. Did you have a role in the degredation of the M? Ofcourse. Does she want it to work right now? Who knows, but I do believe that it's never too late. Don't wallow in your mistakes. You love your W that's fine you should, D isn't the answer you're talking to someone who has been D and I took those problems from the previous M and brought them to this one. So you have to dig deep, i know it sounds cliche but it's true all you can control is you...

This isn't for the faint of heart! Hang in there the answers you are looking for aren't far and you don't have to justify yourself to anyone. Make the decisions best for you and your sitch... Learn from the mistakes and continue to grow... A really good read you might get something from is "Love must be tough" By Dobson And as always pray...

[dingo]

I just read another thread and Acc wrote this, which gets to the heart of what I wrote above:

I think your bar for success should be your own personal growth independent from the marriage. I would focus on why you found yourself one down in your marriage and what you can do to prevent that from happening going forward. From my cheap seats in the bleachers your challenge is not deficiency as a spouse -- it's more an issue of self worth and boundary enforcement. Nail that and you are likely to have a happy wife because you are a confident no compromises husband.

I fear that seeking to "better meet her needs" will deepen your one down position. You probably have more of a challenge in demanding that your needs be met.

I would put all the affair and marriage healing thoughts on hold and dig way deep on you first. If you do that well the marriage and affair recovery will fall into place.

Don't take this the wrong way, you're not a basket case or a pushover or anything, just a guy with vulnerabilities ...

This does get to the heart of the issue I think. I do know what my values are. I do know who I want to be and what I want to be.

My struggle now is that I am not getting the things that I want and I do value and demand faithfulness in a marriage. Of course, I also value giving people second chances and the belief that most people are good, moral and want to do right by the people they love. Of course, I also believe very strongly in commitment and marriage.

How do you have a 'no compromises' attitude in a relationship where both people are equal partners? One of the issues that my wife and I had was a different philosophy on money - saving vs spending, financial planning for the future vs. spending and having fun now. While infidelity certainly isn't something to compromise on, there are many things that require compromise in a marriage.

That being said, I believe I do suffer from the nice guy syndrome and lack of self esteem and self worth that seems to go hand in hand.

Area you suggesting that I should not have worried about the 'grievances' my wife has mentioned to me? While a lot of them were were rather ridiculous - i like cats, she likes dogs was one - some of them were quite serious - she felt that I was controlling because I didn't compromise on certain things, for example.