own a buz 20: confused within the confusion

[adinva]

Actions speak louder than words. Here are the actions:

A year ago he broke up with you.
Since then, he moved you out of his home.
He started dating.
He dragged his feet about putting your name on his business.

You got all spun up because he mentioned not being sure about reconciling, which you interpreted as "wants to reconcile" but to outside observers is more easily interpreted as "doesn't want to reconcile."

You are worried about him dating, which he is BLAMING YOU for, when he broke up with you a year ago. Your focused on extinguishing a match when the forest already burned down around you.

You use words like "sort of agreed" - that to my literal mind means "did not agree."

You try to mindread him, and he apparently tries to mindread you, when you could simply ask, what do you mean? What did that mean? What do you mean by that? I think the reason is because you prefer your interpretations over what you fear might be his real meaning if you actually asked him.

You are not in a relationship with him right now. Your biggest concern seems to be protecting this relationship, but it doesn't exist. Your biggest worry seems to be losing him, but he has been gone a year and you act like he's not.

Pick up your self esteem. Does he want to help you, look out for you, be good to you? Fine, then get him to put your name on the business as he said he would.

Does he want to get back together with you? No. "Confused" does not mean let's get back together. "Confused" means he doesn't know what he wants. There is nothing you can say to him that will make him less confused. I'm not sure what the point is of listening to him about his confusion, unless you feel like more than a year of validating some more of his emotions will get you anywhere good.

If it were me, I'd tell him: I'm not confused. You broke up with me a year ago. For a year you've acted like we're not together. You moved me out of your home. Although that is not what I wanted, you have been very clear. If you're interested in reconciling, you know where to find me. Until then, we're business partners.

But it's not me, so you've sent him a clear message that love and business are intertwined for you, you'll wait indefinitely, you need nothing but occasional small kindnesses one would offer a coworker, and it's very easy to get your hopes up just by claiming confusion.

What DB'ers have advised, and what it sounds like your friend advised, is to stop focusing on him. Let him figure out his confusion. Either sit tight or move along, but stop hanging on his every word.

But - if he's a man of his word, get that financial settlement done. Not doing it isn't saving anything good for you. You're in a very precarious position. Having your assets in your name will in NO way prevent him from reconciling with you if he wants to be with you.

[makingmagic]

IMHO, I really think your H is being honest and not trying to "protect" himeself or take advantage of you. I think like most people in MLC, he's confused and taking his time sorting things out because non-confrontation or non-conflict is what he's looking for..

I hope you are right. I think he is DEF confused and is trying to sort things out... He admits he has been trying to do this for the past year, without much luck... therefore wants to see my therapist.

The part where you are controlling and manipulating is that you keep pushing and pushing (yes you do) him to make decisions about your R just because YOU can't handle it and are anxious. You've done it to everyone who posts to you. You push and push and push for answers. We all tell you the same thing, but you push some more AND THEN you ask someone outside and come back and tell the rest of us about it. And guess what? Their advice is the same as ours. You only hear what you want to hear.

....ok I will accept that YES, I appear to be pushing (but he hasn't received any of the push... At least I hope not). Yes... I want him to make the RIGHT decision about us and you are right it is ME who cannot handle it and is extremely anxious. I don't know how to be different. I try. As for hearing what I want to hear... its not quite that... it is received when it finally sinks in (after much repetition... sorry, this is a fault) OBS need to work on it, but not sure how.

You have to understand that in KenF's case, his W REALLY took advantage of him and flaunted her OM in front of his face. .

OK... Ken's story is different and is HIS. And he is very cautious with reason... it doesn't mean that his story is mine. I appreciate him telling me to be careful. It scares the living bejeezus outta me... thinking my h would be like that.

Your boyfriend (and yes, that's what he is) didn't do that. I could be wrong, but it really does seem like he didn't think it was a big deal because you're not together any more..

2 points: YES... he was my boyfriend. BUT a 20 year BOYFRIEND who felt HE was committed. And was disappointed in what happened during our "committed" relationship. Although we are not together, he is now insisting on some truths. He wants me to KNOW that he did not have sex..... and that he has dated only her... on/off for just a few dates.

During this time I haven't seen you actually work on your insecurities. You ridicule him, yes you do. You keep saying you don't mean it, etc, but you do it alot. In fact, I don't know how many times you kept saying he treated you like a doormat...

MAJOR insecurities... even more so now!!! but, it wasn't just me to claim "doormat".. my daughter and friends say that too... ???

It is HIS MLC. YOU can't control it. HE has to be the one to reach that understanding on his own WITHOUT your help. This isn't him reaching out. It's him answering you because you need to control what's going on in your life and his.

YES... the more I hear it repeated that this is HIS MLC... the more empathy I have. As much as I still have my own hurts about it... I KNOW and have KNOWN for a long time that he isnt doing this to hurt me, but to figure himself out!

How can you suggest he isnt reaching out? He is the one asking for face to face time, trying to call me, etc.. I didn't bring up the R talk that day... nor the one yesterday. He is asking me to control the boundaries of when our next R talk will be, and he will follow suit. He also asked me to make the boundaries for work vs. personal time... he will follow. I suggested that we talk through this part together.

I don't know how many times we've told you this...take care of you and fix yourself first. If you do get back together again, could you honestly say that you have changed enough that things would be great living with you? No resentments? No insecurities? No need for constant validation? Be honest.

YOU along with everyone else have told me many times to take care of myself... and I HAVE been. I am doing all that I can:
therapy, cbt therapy, church, prayers, mediation, books, DB site, womens support group, then tons of GAL!!"... I am overloaded with fixing myself. I have made progress that I am proud of. I wish you could see it. Believe it. However, I am and will continue to be a "work in progress". I will need further MC/IC if we were to R. I will have resentment issues to deal with. I also have insecurities that I continue to work on (however, I have gained back soooo much self-worth... I want the best!!), Validation (hmmmmm... need to think about that one.). Honest... I AM! Always... whats the point of being less than honest... its not going to get me anywhere anyway!

[makingmagic]

Advina... good post!!!

I agree...

Running out the door, will respond when I can later tonight or tomorrow. I have client meeting/h meeting now & then women's support group tonight.

I just wish I knew how to be around him right NOW, today this minute.. I can't help but hearing him tell me ugly stuff and that is in the back of my head (makes me want to cry)... Crying infront of him obviously doesnt work either. So, not sure how to be?

[makingmagic]

are you sure GM? I thought that there were DB guidelines on how to react to this stuff? or at least EXPERIENCED members who could share???

Right now I want to throw things at him and bawl my eyes out... how dare he put his hands on another woman? I don't understand how he could do that? I can't even imagine!! For 20 years I have not had anyones hands on me or mine on anyone else's!!! Im grossed out & cant get these images of her out of my head!

I am extremely angry & deeply hurt! ~~~~ should he see this? or should I remain calm and emotionless. Continue to be my happy self around him (even though I am dying inside)

Yesterday, he seemed to be very responsive to me. Calling/texting often. When I was with him, offering who was on the phone/text. Ensuring that I was safe. Even making the effort and Asking me about the program I was involved in on Tues. nights (women mentoring). If you recall he struggles with "asking" information, if he wants to know he wont ask (he wants me to tell him, much like my personal life, he has asked me to tell him)... He texted me last night (while in meeting) keeping me informed of a part of business that is my responsibility (he doesn't do that). Texted me to say goodnight. ~~~ it really feels like he is making the effort to reach out to me.

I am trying to remember the squirrel theory... so I am trying to be patient. How do I do this part? Do I ignore MY feelings (hurt/anger)?

He has mentioned from time to time, that he doesn't feel that I love him. I do not know how to express it any clearer. He is deeply hurt from the EA that I have had in the past. It STILL comes up for him. Its like he is fishing for deep assurances... do I give it to him? I need assurance too!! its like he wants me to pursue him to prove it ~like this past Monday night when he got all anxious in his voice and wanting to please me by saying that I should tell him when its personal/work time AND when he asked me to let him know when we could have our face to face talk, as if he was on eggshells...and he will follow MY lead.... but what about the squirel theory?] and even suggesting to visit with my therapist or at least LISTEN to ME about what the therapist taught me.

I had a really good meeting yesterday at my womens group. I am starting to be in a good place with myself. Questions were asked and we were required to journal then review. The outcome was that I didn't need his love anymore, but I still wanted it. And that I am learning to be strong enough to honour myself and not accept his crap. That I do not have to fear that I would accept less than the best for myself.

~~~~
Advina...

A year ago he broke up with you.
Since then, he moved you out of his home.
He started dating. but admits its been disappointing!
He dragged his feet about putting your name on his business.ALL TRUE

You got all spun up because he mentioned not being sure about reconciling, which you interpreted as "wants to reconcile" but to outside observers is more easily interpreted as "doesn't want to reconcile."I am seeing this now

You are worried about him dating, which he is BLAMING YOU for, when he broke up with you a year ago. Your focused on extinguishing a match when the forest already burned down around you.

You use words like "sort of agreed" - that to my literal mind means "did not agree."

You try to mindread him, and he apparently tries to mindread you, when you could simply ask, what do you mean? What did that mean? What do you mean by that? I think the reason is because you prefer your interpretations over what you fear might be his real meaning if you actually asked him.I REALLY WANT TO MEMORIZE THIS!!!

You are not in a relationship with him right now. Your biggest concern seems to be protecting this relationship, but it doesn't exist. Your biggest worry seems to be losing him, but he has been gone a year and you act like he's not.hmmm, not sure how I act like that?

Pick up your self esteem. Does he want to help you, look out for you, be good to you? Fine, then get him to put your name on the business as he said he would.Yes, he said he would and he intends on doing so. We have an appt. in February

Does he want to get back together with you? No. "Confused" does not mean let's get back together. "Confused" means he doesn't know what he wants. There is nothing you can say to him that will make him less confused. I'm not sure what the point is of listening to him about his confusion, unless you feel like more than a year of validating some more of his emotions will get you anywhere good.
Confused means confused. NO., but think listening is what we are supposed to do in DB'ing...aren't we? Isn't this possibly him coming out of his fog? Looking for a sounding board/friend/whatever?

If it were me, I'd tell him: I'm not confused. You broke up with me a year ago. For a year you've acted like we're not together. You moved me out of your home. Although that is not what I wanted, you have been very clear. If you're interested in reconciling, you know where to find me. Until then, we're business partners.I might actually say this!! I love how clear and to the point it is... not like me who would make it longer than it needs to be

But it's not me, so you've sent him a clear message that love and business are intertwined for you, you'll wait indefinitely, you need nothing but occasional small kindnesses one would offer a coworker, and it's very easy to get your hopes up just by claiming confusion.Yes, I am desperate to grasp at anything from him (I KNOW THIS!!)... but, I don't believe HE sees me like ^^^ that. He said he thought I was DONE, without looking back and is surprised to hear that I haven't been on one date!. How did I send the message that love and business are intertwined for me? that I will wait indefinately?

What DB'ers have advised, and what it sounds like your friend advised, is to stop focusing on him. Let him figure out his confusion. Either sit tight or move along, but stop hanging on his every word.I try.. but its hard not to hang on his every word. Obviously I need to detach more... again

But - if he's a man of his word, get that financial settlement done. Not doing it isn't saving anything good for you. You're in a very precarious position. Having your assets in your name will in NO way prevent him from reconciling with you if he wants to be with you.
He is a man of his word, and wants me to feel protected financially. Although he fears losing what he has worked so hard for. He is scared, but has said he will follow through. I fear it will bring up arguements... how does THAT work towards R...UGH, thats my fear. That the ugly will come out and destroy any chance for R...

[MrBond]

"are you sure GM? I thought that there were DB guidelines on how to react to this stuff? or at least EXPERIENCED members who could share???"

Wow that was rude. Maybe you think GM isn't "experienced" enough since her M wasn't saved. That's what gets me angry with your posts. Everyone tells you EXACTLY what to do but you insist on total details as if we were you. WE're not. It's time you started learning that and started doing things on your own.

To have people try to help you and then you throwing it back in their face is just...wow.

[KenF]

"how to react to this stuff?"

you dont.

you break the link between his words and your emotions. you make yourself independent of him.

right now he cant offer you a cup of coffee without you thinking it means he wants to reconcile and then you spin out of control trying to think of the 37 different possible ways for you to react from throwing it in his face to rubbing his shoulder to inviting him into your house, and then having a complete tear filled emotional meltdown when you discover it was simply just a cup of Tim Hortons coffee. its maddening.

if you want to listen then listen - but understand whatever he says today may not apply tomorrow. if you want to validate, then validate, but leave the confusion with him, and stop letting it affect you. just let him talk and answer honestly, dont lead the conversations in the directions you want, but for the love of god woman, stop being so emotionally tied to his words.

and it is ALL YOUR CHOICE. you are choosing to live in this drama and this pain. you must make the decision not to be this way. no one else can do it for you, its all you and this is done by making a conscious effort, by hard work, by finding healthy thoughts to take up your mind, by surrounding yourself with good people, by hobbies. its done by YOU finding what works for YOU. there is no one single answer.

how do you act around him? act like a 46 year old woman who has some sense of self worth, who values herself. someone who knows she's worth more than his confusion and maybes and leftovers. and believe it.

[makingmagic]

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! You guys TOTALLY misread that!! I am soooooooooo sorry if it came across that way... I totally appreciate ALL advice given. Experienced or not.

What I meant was that I am looking for MLC experiences (such as Sandi, or Wonka, or whoever... that Has dealt with MLC and the fereal cat/squirrel ....

THATS ALL !!

And as for my post above.. I was not asking to show him how angry and hurt I am.... again, MISREAD... I was asking if I should pretend to be happy around him (as part of DB'ing? even though I received a new bomb)

Imm really disappointed.... I really thought that I turned a corner and you guys would see by the way I had posted in this new thread... WOW (scratching my head)... Misinterpreted Again!

[job]

If you are looking for people who have had mlc experiences, then start visiting the other posters' threads. Read ALL of the threads that Sandi and Wonka have created if that will help you...but YOU have to do some of the educational work on your own.

One more time...go back and re-read all of your threads. The advice is the same and more of the same from day one when you first came to the Newcomer's Forum. If you have issues reading what is on the screen, then print your threads off for future reference. Sometimes having the printed document helps some people with reading and comprehending a bit better because you can hi-light those areas that you want to refer back to at a later date.

Magic, we ALL have had relationship experiences whether it is with the walkaways or MLCers. The advice is the same.

There is absolutely no magic potion that will fix your problem. The only one that can do that is YOU. YOU have to decide how you are going to react/act around your SO. No one can tell you how to do that. You are a grown woman, so put your big girl panties on and start doing some thinking for yourself. If something doesn't work, try something different...but understand...we can't tell you what to do each and every time you have an encounter w/your SO and you start spinning.

Go over and read LoisB's last couple of threads. She has gotten a good handle on her spinning, but she had to delved into her life and face some demons, insecurities and doubts about herself and her life and how she's handled things. She's an excellent example of looking within in order to find herself and how to deal w/her situation. Yes, she stills has struggles, but they are no where as bad as they were several months ago.

I am going to repeat something that I posted to you earlier, if you are not satisfied w/the advice you are getting here, then contact Michele and schedule a coaching session.

BTW, I don't want to hear any more excuses! Find those big girl panties and put them on!

[makingmagic]

Ken ~ THANK YOU... that was beautifully understood! and WOW!!
"how do you act around him? act like a 46 year old woman who has some sense of self worth, who values herself. someone who knows she's worth more than his confusion and maybes and leftovers. and believe it."... my new MOTTO!!

Gabby ~ I am a happy person. I have been removing myself from his emotions choosing to be happy inspite of his moods. His recent convo of confusion, confused me... however, I again see that it is HIS confusion and not to take it on. Not to think its "reconcilliation", just confusion. HOwever, the new bomb of the details of the OW, blows me away. I cannot be "happy".. the smile has been removed from my face. Again, I am sorry if I upset you... but, my questions of understanding the feral cat/squirrel analogy is where I think I am. I do feel that he is warming up... and I am scared to death on doing the wrong thing. This is where I was looking for experiences. I was not asking Sandi or Wonka or VET to chime in... anyone could regarding what they may have read from those experiences. I am sorry if you misread me.

Job ~ as above... Of course I have read those boards. I have thrived in them. I just wanted support. I am not always looking for 'answers'. Alot of the time I am venting and just want someone to agree with me. I have done all kinds of re-reading others & my threads. When I say "I don't know how to be around him, especially now due to new bomb"... what I am really saying is "has anyone dealt with this? How did you deal? What was a good/bad thing you did and would/wouldn't do again"...again, just wanting support. I know my reactions, my responses are mine. I feel I have taken control of myself over this last year. I still spin at times, BUT the length of time is WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY shhorter now. Also, I have been satisfied with the advice...just missing the support.



AND AGAIN.... PLEEASE everyone.... I know I p!ss many of you off...this is not my intent. but, I really feel that if you could see my life, hear my words ... you would understand me better. There is so much misinterpretation in messages... I hate it... for example: Gabby, I was genuinely asking with soft tone "are you sure?, because I thought there were rules/guidelines/script that I could be following"... and somehow MrBond took it the complete wrong way... and then it spiraled. ... and it insulted everyone! F-me!!

[TSquared2]

WHOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!! You guys TOTALLY misread that!! .... again, MISREAD ..... Misinterpreted Again!...

I really feel that if you could see my life, hear my words ... you would understand me better. There is so much misinterpretation in messages

--No, we read what YOU write. YOU.

We read correctly, the words, you type. Whether the words you type are accurate to what is going on, or not, is YOUR responsibility. And I keep reading you pushing responsibility, in many, many things, away.

How about re-reading, 2 or 3 times, with some time in between re-readings, what you post before you hit submit? Maybe have a BFF read it first, see how they take what you write and if it matches your intentions?

And maybe only post from a real computer anything important. At least for me, posting from a phone just doesn't work for anything important or of any length.

Just my 2.5 cents