Suckerpunch, the final thread

[jp787]

SP, How do you hold yourself accountable, other than this forum?

[swoop]

I am not sure I understand your question. Do you mean what role did I play in the demise of our marriage? Or, do you mean how am I being accountable today? Not exactly sure what you're asking me, JP

[PatientMan]

I spoke with My attorney today. W's attorney is asking for even MORE financial records. During our conversation, my attorney pointed out that W not working was going to reflect on my support costs. I guess I will have to help fund her goodtimes, while I bust my donuts to pay my bills. Actually no, I am "trying" to pay my bills. I am falling farther behind every month. I took on an extra side job this weekend to pay for daughters dentist visit this week. It just infuriates me to no end! So wrong to me that she can choose to have her sugar daddy pay her way, not work, play like she's 19 years old with a brand new American Express card and have ZERO accountability for supporting herself of daughter. It just erks me! JUST F'IN ERRRRKS ME!

Healing and growing and all that other stuff aside, this would pis$ me off too. I can see why you're so ticked.

This isn't some benign person who can be detached from emotionally and then won't have an effect on suckerpunch's life. She is actively engaging in a lifestyle that affects his take-home pay...his ability to provide for his family. She's gaming the system while he's busting his as$.

I really don't see much difference in what she's doing and the dead-beat dads who don't pay child support or work under the table to avoid making payments. And I don't normally hear anyone tell those women to let it go.

It's WRONG. Just because she's been doing it for a year doesn't mean it isn't WRONG.

I am so glad to not be in a situation like this. suckerpunch, your lawyer says there's nothing to be done? She can just reduce her income, live off of her boyfriend, and force you to pay more $?

Is that how the system seriously works?

-PM

[swoop]

To some degree, that is how the system works. My attorney even noted that it is unfortunate, but true. The other negative against me, is my state is openly known to lean towards the mother in regards to support and custody. Yay, me!

[JayMan]

You can hold a spouse accountable for their "opportunity" pay. Meaning, for example, if she's a nurse who would normally make $40-60k, and she works at McDonalds making $7/hour, then you still get your child support assessed on the $40-60k. At least that's Ohio. My attorney told me there are MANY guys who would gladly work at McDs just to make their spouse suffer, which is why the courts instituted that. However, in the grand scheme of things, the new man has ZERO responsibility to your child - legally, your W should use all of your child support to buy food, clothes, etc for your child, but I'm suuuuuure that'll happen.

Also, I think you'll be surprised how much courts work nowadays to ensure split/equal time.

[jp787]

Sorry SP, that was a vague question. I guess I am interested in how you hold yourself accountable to yourself for getting up every day and working on becoming better than the last day?

For myself I find I need this or I will stand still, revert back or crawl under the covers.

[swoop]

Thanks, Jon. I have heard a little about, "potential to earn", and that the Judge would look at that if the current earnings seems unreasonably low. W is a licensed insurance agent. I am not sure how the courts would be able to assess that as an income value, based on the fact that there is a HUGE range or earning potential in jobs that are commission based. I guess time will tell, and I really hope you're right. It makes me so irritated that W is not making more of an effort to secure her own financial stability, for the good of her and my daughter. She is simply allowing OM to support her with house, food and daughters needs. At this point in her life, I see her being literally STUCK in that relationship, whether she likes it or not. She earns 500 bucks a month. What would she do and where would she go? It's sad.

[swoop]

JP,

I am in the same boat. I basically get up every morning, look in the mirror and ask myself what kind of man do I wish to be. I am not holding unrealistic expectations of myself. I know I am not going to be the next Dali Lama...haha

I just want to be kinder, more compassionate and more understanding. I want to be a great Dad. I want to treat people the way I would like to be treated. I can do that!

[25yearsmlc]

I spoke with My attorney today. W's attorney is asking for even MORE financial records. During our conversation, my attorney pointed out that W not working was going to reflect on my support costs. I guess I will have to help fund her goodtimes, while I bust my donuts to pay my bills. Actually no, I am "trying" to pay my bills. I am falling farther behind every month. I took on an extra side job this weekend to pay for daughters dentist visit this week. It just infuriates me to no end! So wrong to me that she can choose to have her sugar daddy pay her way, not work, play like she's 19 years old with a brand new American Express card and have ZERO accountability for supporting herself of daughter. It just erks me! JUST F'IN ERRRRKS ME!

Healing and growing and all that other stuff aside, this would pis$ me off too. I can see why you're so ticked.

Think about whether your ^^words are helpful. It's one thing to "validate" but a whole other thing to enable someone to stay stuck. Why? B/C it projects your experience? Like I said, just think out the likely Impact of your words.


This isn't some benign person who can be detached from emotionally and then won't have an effect on suckerpunch's life.


WELL THEN HE SHOULD GIVE UP, AND ALWAYS BE ANGRY AND STAY ATTACHED TO HOW SHE REACTS,

B/C ONLY HER REACTION DETERMINES WHETHER HE CAN LET GO AND BE HAPPY


She is actively engaging in a lifestyle that affects his take-home pay...his ability to provide for his family. She's gaming the system while he's busting his as$.

Wow, I think you two like spinning in place. SHE LEFT him b/c she was miserable. YES SP still argues his case, still feigns "accountability" by saying he "takes responsibility" for his mistakes. But that is not true.

He isn't responsible in any meaningful way. What's it even mean to say SP "owns" his problems?

HE blames her every chance he gets. Within a sentence or two of claiming to own his stuff, he always then tells us "BUT she.."...which negates the insight he just pretended to have, and shows us that on HIS scorecard, she is and will always be behind him. He's still "winning."

B/C in SP's mind, truly, no matter how belittling or carping or argumentative, HE ever was, or how often she asked him to be kinder (in so many words)
no matter how withholding he was of positive comments and no matter how often he criticized her,

HE did not want to be left, and therefore she was wrong to leave...Period...and SP, fyi, YOU say HER flaws every time you first mention "accountability" on your end...

So, I really don't get PM's comments about the good times You are "funding" for your w...what settlement is there that calls for that?

Oh wait, you are mischaracterizing her request. Who Does that help?

She left SP b/c in her mind, SP was not a h who treated her well enough for her to stay. So she left, but SP stayed in the family home. He still lives and works where he lived and worked before, and SP does have his daughter a few days a week. So, where should his w live...where? With OM? That might seem like a snappy little answer, but it's just a bad idea. I think that is the effect of cutting her off, assuming you could make that happen.

PM< What "should" she get from him, ANYTHING? Be honest. You want her to get nothing. And that attitude keeps you stuck and sometimes it is contagious and keeps others stuck.


I really don't see much difference in what she's doing and the dead-beat dads who don't pay child support or work under the table to avoid making payments. And I don't normally hear anyone tell those women to let it go.


What??
She has not been ordered to pay anything to SP, and she was a stay at home mom WITH her d. What is she failing to pay?

Dead beat dads rarely see their kids, which is NOT applicable here, they disappear from their kids' lives, and they don't send in the court ordered amount (about half of men do not pay what is ordered). With non payment cn come the IRS hassles and AGs offices with their garnishing of wages)

and Dead Beat dads always always always assume they pay too much, of course,

AND that every cent they send to their child is actually going ONLY to their evil former spouses...there are men on this site who wanted to measure and deduct his ex wife's shard of the utilities so she could "not benefit in any way" as it her indirect "benefit" is costing him more...

and as if it compensates for the many changes she is making thanks to his checking out of the marriage (unofficially of course, b/c only she gets blame for the m ending)...

SP's wife is not hiding income that I know of...she is not earning LESS than she was before when they were together. I recall her being mostly a SA Home mom, (and not earning what we ought to earn) So I don't think the two situations are alike.

In case you think I only say that b/c SP is male and she's female... I will say that any parent who earns more than the other parent SHOULD pay more CS b/c they have more and it's their kids who should benefit, not some strangers.
And any parent who is supposed to pay something and does not, and or does not see their child at the appointed times, is a dead beat.

I'm not biased against men here, but I think you are too quick to find a sexist line here. I'm being fair but I see SPs situation a lot differently.



It's WRONG. Just because she's been doing it for a year doesn't mean it isn't WRONG.

Who, exactly, said she is doing something right? And if she is wrong, SO WHAT? You think barking it out and declaring it (why not say it 20584 times?)
It has the same effect if you stomp your feet. Which is to say you are saying things that you feel, which do no one any good, and declaring something to be "WRONG" does not convince anyone. They either already agree with you or they think your spouse had a reason for leaving, as did SPs wife, so none of those comments help.

I hope this gives you (and SP) some food for thought. I'm looking for progress so that SP is not talking the way you are, b/c that is where he was a year ago.

Enough with the stage 1 anger...declaring "right from wrong", like that never makes the WAS change their mind. It just doesn't work. It does keep the LBSer angry and stuck and Not attractive to her ex.

stating what SP thought a year ago, still believes but knows how utterly counter productive it is to point out, only to have you come here and repeat it.

This just fuels his anger which has paralyzed him at times, and set him back at other times.

I am so glad to not be in a situation like this. suckerpunch, your lawyer says there's nothing to be done? She can just reduce her income, live off of her boyfriend, and force you to pay more $?

Is that how the system seriously works?

-PM

]]\\\

NO PM that is not what happened in SPs situation, nor is it about to happen and NO it's not how our system works. SP is not objective at all.

PM, go see a L. Get some good facts and real information or you will let a helpless form of victimhood and bitterness ("they're all against us") take over your life.

I hear fear and victimhood throughout your post to SP, which is not super helpful. But I urge you not to follow your fears, both of you.

PM, talk to your L and do NOT jump back into your victim role, please. Same for you, PM.

Good luck. Be the men you were meant to become.

Don't let your past mistakes do anything to your day now, except to incorporate the lessons learned and

keep your eye on the future you are creating for yourself and your children.

Be men that only a fool would leave.

[25yearsmlc]

I am not sure I understand your question. Do you mean what role did I play in the demise of our marriage? Or, do you mean how am I being accountable today? Not exactly sure what you're asking me, JP

I don't mean to speak for JP but here are things I wonder.

Since you never got a counselor, never attended a workshop, never went to hear a speaker and never joined a support group of any type,

what changes and tools have you gained over the past year?

What changes do you expect to be able to make, given that you have no role models for that, and your periodic chats with your pastor have dwindled too?

This is what I mean SP. You SAID you'd "Like to BUT..." somehow could not get there. But you never wanted to do a workshop b/c hey, SHE hasn't! OR b/c you believe it implies that YOU might have a problem.
NEWSFLASH:

If you go see a C or T and they tell you that you have some issues, you are lucky! Why? B/C then you are not powerless. If you are a perfect spouse and your partner sill wants to leave, then you have nothing to do or say. Just leave, ,knowing it's all about THEM....but if you think you might not be perfect, if you might have some problems to work on, then DO IT. You're lucky there is something to do, you are not powerless. That is why the worst news to get is that you are a great catch, but they still want out. B/C then you really are stuck.

SP, sometimes I think you don't want a DBer or a counselor unless he's the type to say your wife is "wrong", and to give you a few hopeful tips that will comfort you as you tell yourself that going to church proves something about you...

but you say you have changed. If you did change, all by yourself with some help here, then my guess is you made it a lot harder than it had to be. If you had just gotten some TOOLS...one on one with professional help, who knows where you'd be?

the resources are still out there. You Ignore them, and paint your w as the eternal bad guy, at your peril.