Afraid I have waited too long

[AnotherStander]

No problem

[labug]

If an A isn't a deal breaker for you, you're creating a lot of angst for no gain. Let it go, let her go, be friendly but no pursuing. Giver her space.

A question. Why do you call it helping when you do chores around your house where you and your children live? Who are you helping? Think about the message that sends to your W and anyone hearing it.

If it's all been her responsibility, that's probably why she doesn't want your help at this late date.

[nit84]

labug,

I know I need to let it go and I will. What I cant help but think about is what I would say if she admitted to an A. I need to approach a situation like that very carefully and although it does no good to think about things that may turn out to nothing it is hard.

I would need to tell W of course I am unhappy that she chose to go outside the M to find something that I was not providing for her in her mind.

I want to work on things but it cant happen with a third person involved. I still wont file for D that would be up to her and if she doesn't file then do I look like a fool because she admitted to an A and I'm unhappy but not enough to end our M?

I have taken Another Stander's advice and thought of the worst possible outcome, processed it, and have now realized that I would continue to fight for my M under these circumstances. Just need to figure out how to handle it correctly.


As far as helping with chores, that might be a bad way of explaining it. Thank you for pointing that out.

When we were first M. For whatever reason we discussed which of us would do what task. Easy enough, I was to take care of the outside and W was to take care of the inside. Pretty dumb when you think about it but it happened.

Realizing this was dumb I started to do tasks inside as well as outside. Not every time but a decent amount of the time I would do something that the W thought I did to show her up. This was not case but I admit that sometimes I would grumble about doing it and I see how W could have taken it way.

What would happen then is W would get upset if she saw me doing something that she perceived was her work. She would say "leave it I will get it". I would say "it's no problem" sometimes it was an issue but most times it just needed done and I was trying to do it. If I continued to try and do it she would get more upset and to avoid conflict or an argument most of the time I would say "fine then you do it" and I would go away to another part of the house. This wasn't always the case, there were times when this pattern would lead to full blown fights but on a whole I would attempt to avoid these confrontations. Which I have now learned is not a solution just delays the problem until resentment builds.

The problem is after an exchange such as this more often than not the W would then not do the chore. I would not do it because it upset her when I tried. So in the end it never got done and lead to the resentment on both our parts.

The 180 I am trying to do right now is not let a comment or an attitude from W stop me from getting things done that I want to do. I am now doing these things for me not to try and convince her to come back to the M.

I must say it is doing wonders for my overall happiness and actually the W is also doing things now that she didn't do while I was not back home. I think it just looked and felt overwhelming to both of us after ignoring these task for so long. After putting forth some effort I know I have realized and I think the W has too that it is not as bad as once thought and with some discipline these things can be accomplished leading to a much better overall outlook on things.

We don't have any children. So it was never a question of something be dangerous if it was not attended to.

I hope that by doing these things and sticking with the changes I have made. It will lead to a reconciliation and we can then start a family because the W will have the confidence that I will be a great Dad. In the end not having children earlier is what got me to this forum in the first place IMHO. I said that in my opening post and believe it to be the case.

[labug]

Maybe you needed to have another talk about reapportioning the duties around running a household, inside, ouside, finances, etc, the whole shootin' match.

It seems that the task isn't the issue, it's how you both reacted around the issue of the task. You tried to do it (it seems without telling her why), made P/A comments, she then was angry, she didn't do it, you didn't do it, arguments endsued and here you are.

Have you told her why you're now doing these things?

[nit84]

I agree we should have revisited all facets of the household but we didn't. I wish we had!

After the S when I was not living at home. I would come over and measure things and price things up to do updates. This was the plan for this past summer way back in Jan 2013 before any outward unhappiness was apparent. So I was just trying to proceed.

The W would say things like " how will this inconvenience me" I said it should not be that bad. Another thing she would say is "you are throwing this in my face because we are going to have to leave anyway" or "I asked you to do this 5 years ago". We did discuss upgrades all the time but it was agreed upon, so I thought, that most of these upgrades not all, needed to wait till our beloved dog passed on. Unfortunately, the ones that could get done didn't because of lack of money and because of the way we had a habit of going out on weekends and being too hung over the next day.

That is no excuse but it happened. That has since been taken care by both of us I think but for sure by me.

As far as telling W why I am doing these things, I have told her that if something needed done and I wanted to do it I was going to do it for no other reason than it needed done or it makes me feel better about our house.

I told myself before I even thought of moving back that I would not let her getting upset be a reason why something I want done didn't get done. This actually has not been that big of an issue since I have been back home. In Fact, she is also doing things presently that in the past would just sit for way longer than needed.

These things I am doing now is stuff that she, if she chose to, could have done in the 6 months I was not here. I mean she didn't and still doesn't have job so there was plenty of time to complete these things.

These are things like scrubbing the carpet, dusting the furniture, overall cleanliness I guess.

She tended to the outside things on a regular basis (things I used to do) most of the time from what I could tell when I came over, but she left the inside go.

The only thing that has been said is she told me not to do her dirty dishes(maybe a plate or two and some utensils not a bunch of skillets, pots and pans etc). I said ok but didn't think it was that big of a deal as I already was washing my stuff. I guess to her it is a big deal.

I know all this should have been taken care of before this and she sees this as me just doing things to get her to come back but you have to start somewhere and I have begun and will continue to do it and have no expectations that this will change our sitch. It is however, as I said before making me feel better about a lot of things which I think might pay dividends down the road no matter what.

[labug]

Along with this:

I have told her that if something needed done and I wanted to do it I was going to do it for no other reason than it needed done or it makes me feel better about our house.

you could also add, "because I realize I made a mistake. I should have been doing more in the past." If, in fact, that's true.

And then leave it alone.

[nit84]

I have said that many times and truly mean it but she still sees it right now as "too little too late" Im sure, idk. I have owned up to a lot of what is my fault in this failing M. If there are others things I am forgetting she is not discussing those issues with me.

The big one was and still is the starting of a family. She just keeps telling or asking me why I didn't tell her sooner, actually the last time she asked was a month ago the night I moved back. I have answered that question to her by telling her it was because of the way I felt about myself for not having children much earlier with her. I didn't like the fact that I had waited so long to ask her and hated myself for it. Took me too long to realize that no matter what, if we had a baby, things would work out just fine. Stupidly, I thought the more we prepared for kids the better off we as a family would be. Deep down I knew that you will never be prepared enough for a baby but I was stubborn and thought I would be different from all the rest. A very self-serving attitude that needed to change. It did, but not in time to save resentment and a broken heart, and for that I am truly sorry not just to my W but for all that have been hurt by this attitude. I just have to keep going about my business and giving her time and space. Patience hopefully will prevail but it is difficult.

I am hoping with time and my actions she changes that view.

[nit84]

Last night my wife actually initiated speaking to me. She told me she paid for a protection for the desktop computer(the one I use but she has access to) but she refused to pay for the laptop (the one that she uses exclusively.) because it is way too expensive. I bought it for both of us but it was around Christmas so I wrapped it and gave to her.

I then questioned if that was virus control she said "no" I said well I will do it for both computers she said"no I can get it cheaper at the store than online" and she would put it on both herself I said ok. I asked her to do this 6 weeks ago but now that it is about to expire she is rushing around.

I then showed her mail addressed to me regarding the protection plans she got upset because she yelled at the person on the phone because she thought nothing was sent.

I apologized and said I thought I was going to do it but you did it first which is just fine.

She then said she would handle the household stuff till we are D. I steered clear of any talk about D and said "I didn't think this was a household item but sure that's fine you have been doing that stuff since the S anyway." She said "its in the house so yes it is a household item" I agreed.

I then asked about a paper shredder that we discussed last week. The one we have doesn't work she told me but when I asked if I could see it she said she tried to fix it and it doesn't work. I said ok have you found a replacement she said no because they are to expensive.

I told her about one I saw and was willing to pay for it she said no its too expensive. I didn't ask her to pitch in at all just want the shredder to clean up more of the house clutter. I have saved every bill since we bought the house.

It is time to get rid of most of them.

Anyway she says "nothing gets shredded until we can both look at it" I said "I'm just cleaning out the back room of old bills not major important stuff." She said she would not do that to me, meaning shred things without telling me. I said "I know that but I would have thought you already had what you needed" speaking indirectly about financial docs. She said maybe she wanted to look at some older stuff and repeated she wouldn't do something like that to me.

I said ok and we both left the house through separate doors and did errands.

When I was out I thought about it and text her to say I was willing to pay half for her laptop to get the protection plan. She didn't answer me. Thinking about it later I realized that maybe she wont be able to pay half because her benefits are coming to an end. Do I ask about this laptop plan again or let it go?


My problem is when she brought up D did I do what I was supposed to and avoid discussing it or should I have asked some questions regarding time frame or maybe even if she actually has retained a L?

It is situations like these that I have to react correctly. I can handle it in a calm voice but it is what do I say and how do I say it that is my problem.

I am a bit nervous that me wanting to use a shredder has forced her to think that I was trying to get rid of something important papers. This is certainly not the case.

Do I just leave it go or should I reassure her that is not what is happening .

This morning I told her I transferred some money for bills that are due soon. I also said when she is ready to pay the credit card that the protection plan is on we could discuss maybe paying extra,over the min amount due, to cover the cost of the plan. She didn't answer right away and I asked "is that acceptable to you?" she looked at me like you know I am not talking to you right? but then turned away and said "fine" in a quiet voice.

The way I handled that exchange was it correct or should I have just left it alone and she would have seen the transfer eventually.

I was just avoiding her using that money on a different bill and when I question it her being able to say "you didn't tell me what it was for so how was I to know?"

[nit84]

Just thinking on the topic of going through paperwork before shredding to clean up the mess.

Hopefully, we can do this together. I think it will save time and get more accomplished, in regards to what is garbage and what should be saved.

Should I try to use this opportunity, if it presents itself, to my advantage?

Should I say things like "Wow, we have come a long way since we first bought this house, remember how WE didn't think we could make it moneywise at some points? If you put your heads together everything always works
out. Which is what we did."

The W always took pride, to friends, family and co-workers, in the fact that bills were being paid and even though debt was way higher than it should be. We were doing what we had to get it down. This is something that she was doing way better than most of her family members.

We could still go a vacation and a couple weekend outings and live comfortably.

Underneath it all though, she would privately complain to me that we cant do what we want because of the debt. I told her we were in good shape, we had a plan and it was working.

This is one of the reasons, although too late in hers and others minds, I asked her to start a family about 2 months before the S.

Do I use this time to show her our financial situation again?

letting her see that in a few years we could be debt free, and having a baby is not an issue that would hamper this effort, just prolong it a bit?

I wouldn't come right out and say that, that would be pressure/pursuing. But present the info in such a way that it allows her to see this for herself and makes her think about our sitch and the fact that it is not all that bad except in her mind.

It also doesn't hurt in my mind anyways that, although she is upset about it, I have been doing IMC faithfully since the S, attending Church more often, not presently drinking, and working out and losing weight. That last one has hit a bit of a wall.

The W is able to see this because we are back in the house together, and people have been telling her.

My 180's in regards to cleaning and house upkeep have been going well. The W will say things like you don't have to worry about this or that. I tell her that's ok it needs done.

She will throw her 2 cents in with a little attitude about something I am doing. I listen to what she says then either continue or not depending on whether I agree with what she said or not.

For instance, I was chipping ice off our patio which is a pathway to enter and exit the home and she said "you are going to bust the concrete up". I said " the ice is pretty thick and I don't want anybody falling(her or me)" She said " yeah because we have so many people coming over." I knew that there was a possibility of cracking the concrete and she is correct in saying we don't have or ever had many visitors(because of the cleanliness of the home) so I stopped it and went in to do something else.



Any advice is welcomed.

[AnotherStander]

WAW's often want to start doing things for themselves after BD because they want to demonstrate to themselves that they can be out on their own successfully. But the LBH wants to do a 180 by helping whenever/ wherever they can. The more the LBH tries to help then the more the WAW resents it because it is the opposite of what she wants. She sees it as controlling, manipulative behavior, not as "help". So just let her take care of things. If she makes mistakes then so be it, right now it's what she wants.

Just thinking on the topic of going through paperwork before shredding to clean up the mess.

Hopefully, we can do this together. I think it will save time and get more accomplished, in regards to what is garbage and what should be saved.

I wouldn't push for that, she was pretty clear that she doesn't want to shred anything right now. Put it on your "stuff to do later" list.

Should I say things like "Wow, we have come a long way since we first bought this house, remember how WE didn't think we could make it moneywise at some points? If you put your heads together everything always works
out. Which is what we did."

No, there's no "we" in her mind right now. You can compliment her in non-sexual ways (such as "you've always been so good at organizing, can I ask you what you think I should do in this closet?"), but don't stress what the two of you have done jointly.

Do I use this time to show her our financial situation again?

letting her see that in a few years we could be debt free, and having a baby is not an issue that would hamper this effort, just prolong it a bit?

NO! No talk about the future AT ALL. Are you familiar with Sandi2's 37 Rules? They are your roadmap!

I wouldn't come right out and say that, that would be pressure/pursuing. But present the info in such a way that it allows her to see this for herself and makes her think about our sitch and the fact that it is not all that bad except in her mind.

You CANNOT control and manipulate her into seeing things your way. You've got to change the way you're looking at this. Give her TIME and SPACE. Back off and leave her alone! Work on YOU.

My 180's in regards to cleaning and house upkeep have been going well. The W will say things like you don't have to worry about this or that. I tell her that's ok it needs done.

Don't overwhelm her with beta behavior, it's not attractive to her right now. We all did it, but it doesn't help things. If she wants to keep doing things around the house then let her.