melissag VIII - but I'm afraid to have no fear!

[melissag]

Makes sense to me. Just requires frequency "check ins" with yourself about what your motivation is. For me, the biggest problem was actually wanting to say or do something punitive, under the guise of it being "just" and "fair", when in reality I wanted h to feel some consequences for his choices.

Glad to know I am not the only one who does that. I am actually still struggling with that on the ML issue. I can't decide if I am only setting that boundary because I think that me ML with him is letting him eat cake.

Unlike some, I chose to keep intimacy in our R even during the sep b/c it was h's love language and b/c I was mostly okay with it. There were times I worried about pushing him away by not having it, but it was a fluid thing.

Yes, that's kind of where I am. We had the SSM problem and yes, that is my H's LL. (And we wonder why he lives in an apartment now.) I do kind of feel like if I don't ML with him, he will go right back to that place where he felt so awful and rejected. Also, I like ML with him, obviously. Based on my H's most recent comments, I can't decide whether ML with him is getting used or not. I flat out asked him whether it was just physical and he said he enjoys the emotional and physical experience of ML with me. But in the same breath as, I don't want any obligations or expectations. I'm not sure how to reconcile those two statements. I have said it before here, I don't think that my H would be careless about an STD. But, I also didn't think he would walk away from our M. I don't know - I am really torn on this issue. My H hasn't filed or said he was going to file, but he did say we should talk about more permanent custody arrangements and financial support, so I kind of took that as him saying he wants to move forward with D. In which case, probably a bad idea to ML. Aggghhh. I don't know.

GOOD!!! Just curious, any comment on your faith? I'm not at all a preacher, but wanted to ask so I know what not to suggest...

I'm not religious at all. I'm not offended by it, and have been known to throw out a prayer during extra innings of an important baseball game, but that's about it. I consider myself spiritual but in a more vague kind of way.

About the house . . . that stinks that you put so much into it and now have to sell, but I understand the feeling of it being an albatross. H and I owned a beautiful condo pre-kids, and had a hard time selling it when we moved to a house with a yard. I loved that condo, but there was a point where I just couldn't wait to get rid of it. As much as I dislike my house right now (simply bc it constantly reminds me of H and how we were supposed to live here forever), I am hoping I can somehow pull it off to keep it.

About the cleaning of clutter and junk:

You are not alone. And this part of the story is not fully related to the marital situation b/c it sounds as if some of this stuff weighs you down, anyhow. True?

Most definitely. I really hate clutter and disorganization - it makes me feel anxious and stressed. So I should have realized something was very wrong when I started to allow this to happen. I think that a lot of it had to do with self loathing, but I am not sure whether that caused the issues in the M, or was a result. Probably some of each, if I had to guess.

This ^^ is "stinking thinking." . . . [w]e grab onto this when it is being taken from us, but in truth, there were always days I wished I could have some adults around a few hours a day. Try to see the good parts of this b/c they are real. And besides, what choice do you have?

True. I do seem to do a good job at finding the negative, don't I? I do think that having a job would be nice, at least in the sense that I would meet new people and have something to keep me busy and help me feel productive. I don't think I want to be a L anymore - if I can swing it, I'd like to do something with less demanding hours because I want to spend as much time as possible with my kids while they are still willing!

Also, you said earlier, in the past, you did not trust something within the m, or him, to really let yourself stop criticizing your h. You had walls up.
Was it being at home all day, or something you sensed in him, that is NOW coming to light?? OR will this always be a chicken or the egg debate?

No, it had nothing to do with staying home, I don't think. It was the fact that he never seemed fully committed. He acted committed by coming home every day at 6 and spending time with the kids, and skipping his friend's bachelor party at the strip club . . . but he just always seemed kind of mad about it. But I already knew that he thought D was a perfectly reasonable option, and he wasn't very good at all about reassuring me when I expressed feeling insecure about his commitment. Mind you, he pursued ME for two years. But as soon as he moved here to live with me, I remember him saying, "isn't this hard for you?" to change from being single to being part of a couple. I thought, heck no, this is great! He didn't think it was that great. And I often felt resistance to doing things as I thought married couples should. Just felt like he was always looking out for #1, not putting our M first or being part of a team. It scared the crap out of me.

So maybe his declaration about never wanting a R with obligations or expectations is just him finally admitting the truth.

Also-- who says you MUST work as a L?

Nobody. But for purposes of child support and maintenance, I am sure that my imputed income will be that of a lawyer.

After 7 years of being a sahm, I chose NOT to practice law for awhile, and to get a teaching credential b/c it helps keep the kids schedules the same as mine, no need to hire daycare in the summer/holidays, and the pay here, well a new lawyer makes about what a teacher makes, but a new L cannot go home for dinner every night or take weeks off in the summer and Christmas. Just a thought.

That does sound appealing, but there is no way a teacher makes the same as a L here, even one who hasn't practiced in 9 years. Not even close. Who knew I would feel weighed down by a JD one day?

HIS VIEW, MAYBE: "I worked full time while SHE got to stay home and be with the kids. I earned ALL the money and what do I get for it? A critical ungrateful w and kids who need a lot from me and I'm tired b/c I work hard all day and all I have is THIS??

The LEAST I deserve is my freedom...and I"m a great dad b/c I will pay the court orders and get my daddy fixes periodically, which proves I am not my dad...

OK. Point taken.

Be open...don't you get ANY benefit from HIS having worked those years?

Of course I did. I love that I got to stay home with my kids. I started to go on more about why this upsets me (and why I understand the 2x4 with perspective on people in Africa, but still think I can be pissy about my own sitch), but I realize it just sounds bratty and entitled. It's something I need to work on.

Also guilt can push him away too.

I have tried really hard not to guilt him; I mean to the point where has has no idea some of the things that my kids say to me and the frequency of it. He has told me they say nothing to him; I guess they save their questions/concerns for me. I have tried to encourage them to talk to H when the questions are about him, but they still don't talk to him.

Just Be prepared for him to back off after a few painful questions come from the kids. You ought not be the one to answer all those questions.

So far, he has left many of them for me to answer. Such as, "why didn't Daddy want to come ob vacation with us?" Sometimes he doesn't even tell them he is not coming to things, like Christmas Eve or S7's special post-concert dinner. So I get stuck being the bearer of bad news. I will say that when they learn he is not, in fact, coming home in May (as he has led them to believe), that will NOT come from me. He is on his own on that one.

For me, it would be monumentally difficult to live with myself and see that my kids resented me for things I actually did that hurt them. But that's not my problem; it's his. I can only assist and support him in working to repair the R's he has.

I don't really get it either. I think that WASs have to be telling themselves some sort of delusional story that justifies things in their heads. My H was pleasantly surprised to find that, immediately after telling them about the S, he became the favored parent. It has worn off somewhat, but the kids still act like they worship him. Given that, and the fact that they don't complain to him, I don't think he's feeling too bad about things. He seems to think they are perfectly fine.

Your h has a mountain to climb he does not yet know of. I already pity him. Seriously...way more than I pity you. Sounds weird, I know.

Honestly, I kind of do, too. I think that reality is bound to hit him in the face at some point, but even if he denies it forever, I don't think he is really ever going to live a very fulfilling life if he does not do some work on himself.

You see, a WAS ALWAYS has to wonder if they have done the right thing (unless the LBSer makes it easy for them. You make it easy for them by being negative and chasing them away, which confirms all the negative reasons they gave themselves for leaving.... When their LBS makes good positives changes and there are kids...how does the WAS keep on justifying such a destructive act?

Well, I am certainly not making it easy for him. He asked me the other day, "do you not want anything to do with me?" I wondered whether he was hoping I would say "hell no, you're a so and so, I hate you." But I didn't. I said, "don't be silly, of course I do." (No response from him.) How DOES the WAS continue to justify having left? I don't know. But so far my H has done a pretty good job of it. Maybe because he hasn't really seen the damage he has done (and will do) with the kids, or because I am being so nice to him . . . maybe he thinks that he really is right, and we are all better off now! Do you think that this catches up to all WASs at some point? It seems hard to imagine, given where we are right now. But I guess my sitch is still in its infancy, even though it feels like it has taken a good 15 years off my life.

My h had DEEP guilt about all this. He likened it to "wrecking the family car and not knowing if any passengers would live." And he was crying when he said that and he's not a crier.

Let me say what my kids said, when my H told them he really didn't want to hurt them by moving out . . . "then why are you doing it?" If your H felt so guilty, WHY did he do it? Have you ever gotten that answer from him?

Every time the LBS is happy and free appearing, the WAS will wonder if they might have missed something....

It seems to me that my H seeing me happy only lets him off the hook. But like I said above, I am pretty good at finding the negative in things.

But the LBSer has no such qualms. WE make the best of a bad situation and we create happy lives for ourselves b/c we must.

That is a good point, and one that I need to remember. That I won't have any regrets about MY behavior. I certainly do regret my H's behavior, but I can't do anything about that.

Don't need a new man yet. Just flesh out the other parts b/c what I really want you to do is come up with a few things you imagine yourself doing and enjoying, that do not require him...and DOING them now.

Ah. I see. Well, I actually already do many things that I enjoy without H. I am far from sitting at home pining away over him all day. (All night when I am supposed to be sleeping is a different story, of course.)

Also be as loving as you can be, as warm as you can be, about not ML anymore. Meaning, you want him to remember it well. You want him to miss it with YOU...so you can still joke and flirt at times, but then be busy and go out.

I actually am at a loss as to how to talk to H about the ML issue. I think he knows that I probably won't, but I feel like I have to say something about a reason. Or even if I don't, what if he does ask me directly? I am not sure what to say.

Again, I remind you, your kids are watching you more than you realize.
Someday each of them will face heartbreak or a setback or betrayal. You must model for them what a woman of strength and dignity does then.

This is one reminder that gets stars around it so I really remember. They are always watching. I think I have done a pretty good job so far, but I need to keep it in the forefront of my mind.

Then quit nagging him. Seriously.

I have not nagged, complained or criticized to my H since BD. At all. With only one exception where I said my piece and dropped it.

If I'm not willing to leave him for the "issue" - then the issue is not an important enough issue to fight about often. IT's just negative spinning.
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This is a really good rule of thumb - wish I had followed it a long time ago!

My fear is that he won't realize it til you are moved on but don't let that hinder your movement.

This fear is definitely keeping me stuck. I know that in theory, if he comes back and I have moved on, then I would be happy and won't care that we won't R. But the thought of it makes me REALLY, profoundly sad.

I say set him free. You cannot do his journey for him. But you can and should do yours.

I am still not sure what it means to set him free.