melissag VIII - but I'm afraid to have no fear!

[bluesgal]

Always appreciate a good read. Thanks for sharing. Hope you get some sleep tonight.

I was thinking: By not freaking out and pulling back a little while still being amicable, I would think that's made your H wonder...

[melissag]

PM!!!! I have been hoping to see you around, but I know you thought you might need break from the boards. Your thread is locked - hope you start a new one and let us know how you are doing! Also, love what you wrote. I will add it to my list to refer to when I feel crappy.

Blues - thanks for stopping by! I am sure it makes my H wonder . . . I am certainly not acting like a normal person in this situation, or, I am sure, what he was expecting.
So I guess there is entertainment value in that (gotta find the silver lining!), but highly doubtful that it will change his mind.

[melissag]

I know I am yammering a lot tonight. Apologies to those who actually try to keep up with my sitch.

I found another thing to add to my gratitude list. DBing.

My H about knocked me out yesterday with his "I don't want to be married now or ever to you or anyone else" declaration, and I'll admit it has taken me about 24 hours to start to get some perspective. But in the meantime, I did not do what I think normal, non-DBing people would do, which is freak out, scream, blame, cry, etc. (OK, I did all that one here but not to him LOL.) To him, I was very calm about it and even made a joke with him later to show him I wasn't going to do any of that stuff. Made it through today the same, and tonight he texted to ask me if he could have the kids another extra night this week - I asked if he could just do dinner and he agreed, and I thanked him and agreed to the day he picked. Then I decided to just be nice and I said "g'night" (normally I would just ignore him after that) and he said "good night" and "hope you feel better."

I am not saying that he is going to R with me, but it's amazing how nice people are when you are nice to them. And even though my H is hurting me like nothing else, I am still grateful that we are able to communicate that way rather than blaming and shaming.

OK, I'll go to bed now and avoid the 1,000,000th post of the day.

[labug]

labug, thank you for sharing part of your story. When I spoke with my DB coach today, she said she has heard plenty of WASs say this kind of stuff, but very rarely is someone narcissistic enough for it to actually be true. Not that that necessarily helps me - if he figures this one out, he can always go the OW route next.

Melissa, I shared that just to illustrate things change down the road, we feel one way today and next week we may feel differently. Emotions change all the time. We all say stupid things, often to preclude conversation on a painful subject.

I'm not sure where narcissism fits in.

No one knows what your H will do, even him. His statements, while painful to hear, aren't really new information so let that help you get past this.

This where having no expectations comes in.

[PatientMan]

PM!!!! I have been hoping to see you around, but I know you thought you might need break from the boards. Your thread is locked - hope you start a new one and let us know how you are doing! Also, love what you wrote. I will add it to my list to refer to when I feel crappy.

I am taking a quasi-break. Still checking in with certain people. Not ready for a new thread.

-PM

[melissag]

Melissa, I shared that just to illustrate things change down the road, we feel one way today and next week we may feel differently. Emotions change all the time. We all say stupid things, often to preclude conversation on a painful subject.

I'm not sure where narcissism fits in.

I appreciate that . . . and you are right. The narcissism comes in when a person is egocentric/arrogant enough to think that he truly is entitled to a life without any expectations or obligations.

No one knows what your H will do, even him. His statements, while painful to hear, aren't really new information so let that help you get past this.

You're right. The only new(ish) information, and this is what is bothering me, is that he wants to move forward with custody/financial arrangements, which I assume means move forward with D. Before that, I was enjoying the limbo on the theory that as long as we don't take those steps, there would be more time for him to figure things out.

[melissag]

I am taking a quasi-break. Still checking in with certain people. Not ready for a new thread.

Well, it's great to see you. Thanks for stopping by my thread. I always look for your advice!

[25yearsmlc]

Melissa...(((( !! ))))

Yikes, reading your posts reminds me of a time several years ago, when I was in a very dark place. Almost too hard to post about it.

I apologize for the length of this but won't be here again soon...(i will try to check in!)

So I'll tell you what I did that helped me.

I stopped wondering or asking WHY or HOW my h, a man I married decades earlier and felt I truly KNEW, could or would do what he was doing.

I released him to his "task"...

he said he HAD to live in Alaska, with or without us, (he'd "prefer" if we went but we were not mandatory. Ouch)

He took several secret trips there and no, there was no OW there. At least not at first b/c he kept acting as if we were all going. It was truly so odd and looking back, he seems embarrassed more than anything. (But I could be wrong).

After living there before, none of us wanted to return. It killed me that a PLACE and a JOB would be more important than what all of us wanted, b/c none of us wanted to live there except for h.

But for awhile, like 2 years, he acted as if that were true.

OR I guess maybe, he acted as if he thought we were just wrong, and we would join him and all his dreams were coming true if I'd just stop being negative....and join him there b/c of his obsessions about that place. He'd say things like we have to go to the "gold rush in Alaska," "so much opportunity there", "so beautiful/abundant/wild/RICH there", and I guess he'd be immortal b/c when it is so cold you don't age (my spin on his comments)...

Bottom line with your h is that while your h may have unresolved crap from his childhood AND

OR he's suddenly selfish

or he always was selfish but now it's coming to a head and you didn't realize it earlier

or maybe it's genetic ...OR blah blah blah...so, what matters now?

WHAT YOU DO is what most matters, and it's all you control anyhow.


In our case, a trip with my kids to Italy on our 25th, was a triumph for me personally and reminded me of what a good mom I am and how close my kids are and also, that I can have fun and not think of my h all the time. Trips are great stimulators b/c there are no reminders of WASs....(So congrats on the California trip! Next time, some DBers will welcome you here!)


Looking back, see if any of the following resonates with you...

I had a feeling/hope that once my h was up there on the tundra, all alone (or not??) that since I believed down deep he really loved our kids, if not also me...and that he liked being home and playing and being WITH the kids, that it nourished him,

which what I hear in your h's repeated wishes for them to come over....


I had a feeling that in my h's case as well, that once his immediate goal was achieved (he had to take boards in Alaska and that takes a solid month or two of studying to pass plus all the months leading up to his move there)....so off he went and I knew the date of the exam...and wondered if he'd suddenly take the blinders off, look around & ask where everyone was...(In your h's case, his need to FEEL FREE, or whatever he perceives as "not being obligated" or "having to meet expectations"...) that he might feel a bit purposeless and quite unfulfilled.

Hard to see how a parent can choose a life without obligation b/c...well because a parent HAS real obligations. They are the biggest obligations we'll ever have...surely your h recalls his own feelings about his father's abandoning him. Regardless of his mother's issues, his father could have seen him. It's an act of pure selfishness that is rarely seen in our culture. I don't say this to condemn your h but to point out how unusual it is and so far, your h sounds as if he wants a R with them.

(Sometimes around here we "see" WASs drop off the planet for a long time. That's worse)

The evening of my h's boards test date, just hours after he had taken them, he called and asked me when I could "at least visit", AND then the calls came more often...

sometimes more than once a day. I did not call him unless an urgent matter came up. He did all the calling. He said he was "literally begging" me/us to join him...and other things were said that needed to be said in order for me to even l think about it, but i had a lot of thinking to do.

WHAT happened in me, that helped this^^ to happen?

I figured out that I could be more than just "alright" without my h, and that I could be happy without him. I think that gives you an inner confidence that soothes you and then radiates from within...so get yourself there, mentally. Where the head goes, the heart will follow.

I came to see that h would lose far more than I would in a divorce, and you're in the same situation.

Your h may not know this yet, but if he stays on this path, he is losing his family, his self esteem as a father and husband, and his best friend.

If he stays on his path, what are YOU truly losing? A man who gets that type of NYE's pics, and Then posts it on FB...a man over 40 who is, btw, still married, and had kids, and who is willing to do exactly what his own father did to him (but more politely). You want that man, the man your h is behaving like at such points, for your life partner?

I can't say your kids will have any resentments if your h returns soon b/c they may just be so glad if he comes back, and b/c they're younger.

I also had to hear my d's pain and many many questions about whether we were divorcing or whether he'd "ever come home", or if we were moving or if THEIR lives were going to change (the biggest fear a child has is that they won't be safe in some way, they will lose a parent forever, or they will be alone, as in no friends or parents)

and also the killer question " but if he loved us, he would not have left"....which s.u.c.k.s. to hear, I know.

My other regret?

The full year I spent obsessing and asking questions like "how can you/he do this" or "why? WHY?"

My DB coach said "asking it that way (the wording itself, "why" and "how can you??") will always elicit a defensive response and in reality it's designed for that..." I heard her words, and I stopped it.

Then she also said, "is there really a true answer that will soothe you? And why do you assume he even knows?"

So I stopped asking why or how. I began solely focussing on MY life and my kids.

Early on, I was not fully present for them. But when I got my stuff together and began seeing a new career as a blessing and an opportunity. and not as a frightening curse, I think h began wondering what I was doing. I really did make the best of it b/c in the end, what choice do we have??

I saw a job overseas for a year teaching English & I think it dawned on ME and H, that I might not be here waiting for him forever....that I might be with OM and that our CHILDREN might also have OM in their lives...b/c that's actually realistic, given the path my h was on. H seemed to have piqued curiosity...

or maybe I imagined it....but I noticed that only a month or so later, he took those boards and seemed to be very concerned that we were not always here waiting for him. He asked a lot about what we were up to on a daily basis.

Oh, one other thing I suggest as for the attitude...

You know the upbeat part you have to do now. But since you are reeling bc only now he has blurted out his new reality...remember that it can change.

I can't say for sure there's any way for him to know this without him dating OWs....which stinks to hear, I know. But while my h and I were sep, I dated some OMs. (My h dated as well. We only discussed it once and that was as we were choosing to piece and reconcile. No, it did not make me crazy, with the exception of maybe a few errant thoughts I had to gain control of).

I did not really meet any jerks, although some men are wounded more than others and they are bitter and or, they don't want to look within.

But happily, I learned here and out there, that there are good men out there who treated me well.

With a few hilarious exceptions, I didn't have bad experiences dating. HOWEVER nonetheless, I found that my h's intelligence is something I really appreciate, and it's not common. He's also attractive b/c he has taken care of his physique, which I appreciate a lot.

Also he is not threatened by a smart or educated woman, (some guys are) and we always had chemistry, (I was not attracted to some of the men I met) and our senses of humor are alike and active...

My point is,

if I found my h generally more appealing to me than most men, better suited for me, even after meeting decent OMs, AND with h acting like a selfish alien jerk,

then why on earth must I (or YOU) assume that our h's meeting OWs means they are having GREAT talks, LOTS in common, great And constant sex, and a deep connection??

Why wouldn't your h learn what I learned? (And what my h learned?)

That the grass is NOT greener on the other side? We chose each other for good reason and under all our fears, pains and anger, remains a longstanding love...which will resurface in TIME...if not covered again, with new anger or painful issues.

The question really does become, how long can you wait? OR Better yet, why wait?

Why not create the most fulfilling life for you and your children, that YOU can?

Melissa, Imagine your life 5 years from now without your h, but with you being happy.

DETAIL THAT VISION now, with at least 3 details... Seriously...

Start figuring out what you'd be doing in that vision.

Any new hobbies or classes in your vision? Would you like to take another language? Get a degree or credential in something? Dance lessons? Kickboxing to a new level? MMA??

What about a new job?

And Where would you LIKE to live? (We moved a lot for my H's career every 2-3 years, for 17 years, so when I finally realized we might really be divorced, I forced myself to see the positives...

which were small at first (chick flicks flourished in the home b/c I was with my 2 d's as our son was off at college for the big chunks of this), and the toilet seat was always down...

but then I realized for once in my life, I could live anywhere I wanted to live, with my girls...NOT FOR H's career...but a place WE LIKED...

it was liberating.

I GAL too, and in a big way. (More on that later).

Yes I saw a T, took some anti depressants for several months and needed sleep aids. You may want to ask your doctor about this or find something more natural if it bothers you to take pills. I was simply spinning & obsessing too much too often. Not a good sleeper then.

Your kids are watching you. They need you now, more than ever. AND
I think you are doing well Melissa,

You are a much faster learner than me!

Last but not least, here are a few things you may need for kid issues.

Our youngest was 8 at the time and she would ask me if we were going to get a divorce. I thought we were likely to, but I was never "positive".

My T and the DB coach both said "if you are not 100% sure you are getting a divorce, do not say you are. Say you are "not sure" but tell the truth about how you feel...in a way that does not blame."

So if asked if we were divorcing, I'd say something like "I sure hope not" OR "I hope not b/c I have loved your father for a long time..."

AND to stress to the kids, what would NOT CHANGE in Their lives....

in our case, no sudden move was coming

B/c of our history in the military, My girls really dreaded another sudden move. I promised them, especially my older d, then 16, that there was no way I'd move her in high school.

This made her feel much better, and I assured her younger sister 8, of the same. They felt a lot better that they would still go to the same schools, have the same friends and d2 would still play basketball, etc. The only thing that would consistently be different, would be their dad not being here as much.
By then, they were somewhat used to that.

Reassure the kids of whatever will Not change for them.

The T also suggested a specific time for calling every night (to say goodnight, for instance) and a specific day(s) each week that they can count on seeing their dad.

Reliability is key here. If your h cannot manage it, then don't set them/him up for failure. Just back way off and let him learn to miss what matters.


If there was once great deep love then it will resurface once the layers of anger and fear and resentment (and his justifications) are removed.

The more you challenge his choices, the more he'll defend those choices...

I feel bad for my h, but I cannot fix his r's with our children, and nor can you make things work for other people.

If your h works this out soon enough and smartly, and you don't radiate anger, your kids might do more than survive this. They are younger. But regardless, yes they will survive. Our goal as moms is a bit more than that...so that's why WE do not fall apart.

That is why you will not lose your temper at your h, in front of him or them...


that is why you will act with grace and dignity, in the face of betrayal and pain...

YOU Melissa, will Not have regrets later in life. Sure, your h may have huge regrets, (God knows mine does).

But that's not today's problem and it's not your problem. Today there is enough for you to face.

In sum, GAL, hope for the best while planning for the worst, remind yourself every single day that you are GOING to be fine, no matter what your messed up h does or thinks or feels or plans...and you will NOT keep wondering about him.

When your mind wanders to HIM, snap it back to focus on YOU...your work...your life, your job, your kids, your future, etc. All back to YOU...

I don't know about your faith. But if you are a believer, start turning this over to God. I found myself telling my Higher Power, "God, I turn this marriage/pain/anger/fears over to You."

I usually said it in the shower so the kids did not think I was insane...but thinking it, then saying it, and hearing myself say it, repetitively, actually helped it sink in.

I'd say it dozens of times and more so when I expected my h to call...it calmed me down and

I began to Let go of the things and people I had no control over.

Boy, life got easier for me then...I highly recommend it.



(((( ))))

[25yearsmlc]

PS


Please see a L asap. Just to learn your rights. You do not have to file anything or even tell your h if you don't want.

But the "knowledge is power" thing is true. You'll feel less afraid and less trapped. A sham with little ones will have a chance at staying home a bit longer but if not, your h is about to have a LOT MORE time with his kids and not with you to bail him out.

See, he may not recall them, but the had the kids and they ARE obligations. I'ts much harder today for a man to disappear and not have to pay any CS if he was ever employable....

the legal realities will frighten your h more than you b/c hey, he's in the "extra" apartment he wants to fix up...See the L and start protecting yourself.

Not to be punitive but when it comes to money that is food from your child's mouth. You don't really have the right to decline any assistance if it benefits them. They need you to represent their interests, as well as yours.


Good luck and again, you do NOT have to "do" a thing but meet a L and ask some questions. Many Give free half hour consults. Write your questions down first, like the 3 most important fears you have.

Are you in a state with a city named
Denver"? Hmm, Come to think of it, there's a DBer here by that name you may want to look up.

((( )))

[3boymom]

Great advice MLC. I am taking it to heart to apply to my sitch. I love seeing such a strong woman who was able to act with such grace and dignity and to give their h time and space. Amazing!