When I say that I want a spouse who understands this, I am not saying that I want a spouse who is sexually matched with me. I am saying that I want a spouse who truly loves and values me enough to make meeting my needs a priority in her life.
If I have learned anything from getting a divorce, it is that a person who is not willing to have intimate conversations is not a good candidate to be in a relationship. Because if there is no intimacy, there will eventually be no relationship.
I made a big mistake out of ignorance, but I have learned.
If you are already in such a relationship, as I was, you are SOL until someone changes or leaves.
Love this, so well said
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
RockJC, your points have been echoed here many times on many threads, it is challenging to understand the "withholding sex because you don't feel like it" perspective -- I don't understand it myself.
There is then often a follow-on debate about whether "duty sex" or "chore sex" is sufficient, and if "better than nothing" is really good enough. I don't pretend to know the answer to that, I think it's an individual thing.
There have been a few LD folks who have chimed in from time to time and the takeaways I've gleaned have been the following:
-- The LD partner truly does not understand (or does not want to understand) the importance of sex to the HD partner. They simply cannot sympathize because they do not feel the way you do, so they don't understand the pain they are inflicting. If you lived with a robot who never needed to eat, they would have no way of knowing how painful severe hunger can be.
-- The LD partner many times has simply given up. Either their own needs remain unfulfilled, they are carrying around a ton of resentment, they are emotionally checked out, etc. Sometimes they feel unworthy, that nothing they do will be good enough so why bother, that you have badgered them to the point that they resigned, etc. They know the lack of sex hurts, but they don't care because they are also hurting. They are not motivated to step up because they don't feel that you have stepped up for them in the ways that matter.
-- The sexless relationship "works" for the LD partner and they are simply being selfish. The downsides that come with a sexually frustrated partner just don't matter enough to make the LD partner step up because overall the relationship works for them. They are getting the companionship and/or support they need and are willing to let good enough alone.
I would bet it's usually a combination of the three, but to the HD partner it probably always looks like the last one.
My MC shared an interesting observation about intimacy in general that also applies to sex drive -- everyone's natural level is different and also fluctuates. Pretend that you could measure sex drive on a 10 point scale. If your sex drive varies between 7 and 9, and your spouse varies between 6 and 8, your drive is still higher but you have enough overlap that it probably doesn't bother you. If you're at 9 and she's at 6 you're going to be frustrated, but there will be enough time when both of you are at 7 or 8 that sex probably won't be an issue.
If, on the other hand, you fluctuate between 7 and 9 and your partner fluctuates between 2 and 4, it will be a source of continuing contention and pain on both sides.
One of the things that is so very challenging about long term marriage is that your drive is going to change over the course of your life, so two people who started out in synch can get really dramatically out of sync over time. It's a real problem with monogamy.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
The problem with "Good Enough" is that in the end it won't me. The relationship will degrade and eventually fail. I think Adinva's comment on intimacy are so relevant.
The relationship dynamics and feelings you cite are a natural part of any long term relationship. The only way to work through them is too actively communicate about them and change/grow as a couple to meet the others needs.
If either partner is not willing to do this, you are doomed.
As an example, there was a period in my marriage where we went 4-5 months without sex.
We were trying to have our 3rd child and my wife had gone through 3 miscarriages and a tubal pregnancy. When she got pregnant for the last time (whether it was a viable pregnancy or not, she was done),she was terrified of having another miscarriage. Even though there was no scientific data showing a relationship between sex and miscarriages, she had that fear.
We abstained from sex for the rest of the pregnancy. I did this JOYFULLY, because I knew that it was what my wife needed at the time. Even though I still desired sex and was not having any, I was not sexually frustrated.
When I say that I want a spouse who understands this, I am not saying that I want a spouse who is sexually matched with me. I am saying that I want a spouse who truly loves and values me enough to make meeting my needs a priority in her life.
I see your point. Yes, I could appreciate sex given in a good spirit even if she didn't enjoy it much herself. It would depend on the mood and the context.
But in a real long-term marriage, what you've stated above is still a bit of a fantasy. What you would need to add to the last sentence is ", even during times when she deeply resents things I've done or failed to do." And there just aren't many women who would do that.
So you might say, well, you'd have an ideal relationship in which you could always sit down and talk it through and come to a compromise. OK, but I don't know how you can assure yourself of that kind of relationship for 20 years into the future by just having a "talk" about it before you enter the relationship.
//there just aren't many women who would do that.//
Maybe not, but I only need to find one. I know I am that kind of man.
//by just having a "talk"// It wouldn't be just a "talk". It would be a long dating process to evaluate her character. A look into her history, how she treats her parents, her willingness to communicate directly with me.
Most importantly, there is a spiritual component to it. I avoid talking about religion on this site, because it gets so much criticism, and the majority of people here quickly dismiss it. I believe that a commitment and belief in Jesus Christ is the most important characteristic in a woman. Only after she has surrendered her body and soul to Christ, is she capable of loving you. The same goes for the man.
Once two people are fully surrendered to christ, then they are capable of a long term, fully committed relationship.
The resentment you describe and the issues accuracy describes all stem from a love of self - "What will make me happy?". A woman who has surrendered to God, has replaced her love of self for a love of God. From that foundation, she is capable of loving her husband. This is not a fantasy, I see it in relationships all around me and I know that this is what was missing from my relationship.
The intimacy that Adinva talks about, flows from a foundation of submission to Christ.
For someone who is not a Christian, I realize that this sounds like pure nonsense.
//there just aren't many women who would do that.//
Maybe not, but I only need to find one. I know I am that kind of man.
//by just having a "talk"// It wouldn't be just a "talk". It would be a long dating process to evaluate her character. A look into her history, how she treats her parents, her willingness to communicate directly with me.
Most importantly, there is a spiritual component to it. I avoid talking about religion on this site, because it gets so much criticism, and the majority of people here quickly dismiss it. I believe that a commitment and belief in Jesus Christ is the most important characteristic in a woman. Only after she has surrendered her body and soul to Christ, is she capable of loving you. The same goes for the man.
Once two people are fully surrendered to christ, then they are capable of a long term, fully committed relationship.
The resentment you describe and the issues accuracy describes all stem from a love of self - "What will make me happy?". A woman who has surrendered to God, has replaced her love of self for a love of God. From that foundation, she is capable of loving her husband. This is not a fantasy, I see it in relationships all around me and I know that this is what was missing from my relationship.
The intimacy that Adinva talks about, flows from a foundation of submission to Christ.
For someone who is not a Christian, I realize that this sounds like pure nonsense.
If couple gets married and goes by the book ( bible ) there won't be any of this sex starved or affectionless positions,almost regarding any circumstance. LOVE and selflessness would over come it.
I don't understand why you choose to live this way. What are you getting from it? It doesn't sound as if the M is that strong outside of the sex issue. It sounds controlling and punishing. Am I wrong?
In the universe of all possible ways to live, this is not the one I would have chosen. It is, however, one of the few choices I was left with. What do I get out of it? Well, I generally don't think of it in those terms. I get a household to share, some common interests of things to do and places to go.
There are times when it seems punishing and controlling and it would be apt to describe it that way.
As I said, it would probably be best to see it in terms of a housemate...one that I generally get along with, share a number of common interests with, and one that I generally in willing to do things and go out with...just so long as it doesn't involve anything sexual.
The Captain
Last sex: 04/06/1997 Last attempt: 11/11/1997 W Issues "No Means No" Declaration: 11/11/1997 W chooses to terminate sex 05/1998 I gained 60, then lost 85 pounds. Start running again (marathons)
