melissag VIII - but I'm afraid to have no fear!

[keep_going]

Melissa,

Glad to hear about your vacation. Great advice from everyone here.

I want to share my experience re. these issues.

I waited too long to set healthy boundaries with my H. Yes, I did the ML thing and felt used, I let him come and go to our house w/o a schedule, I took on all the responsibility for the kids, I wanted to fix his R with them too... All of that eventually backfired - because I grew resentful and angry about all of it.

Like you, I was so afraid of his reaction, or him pulling father away... The reality was that regardless of what I did, if he was going to pull farther away, he would (and he did). It was completely out of my control and my inaction just proved to was be my attempt to manipulate the situation in my favor.

When I finally faced my fear and stood up for myself to set healthy boundaries because I accepted that the situation was not good for ME, he protested for sure. He was not happy about set visitation times and not having access to the house whenever he wanted. He didn't like that he now had to plan his partying around his custody time with the kids.

But it was then and there that I saw his protests as those of a petulant 2-year old that was throwing a tantrum because he was not getting his way...

Yes, at this point, your H is not in a place to get it, so expect a bad reaction. Yet in the end, I am so glad I set boundaries. I started healing AND my kids started to have a more normalized reality, with set times where they were with mommy AND daddy. They began to have a routine and knew what to expect which made a world of difference for their emotional well-being in such a difficult time.

I started to have a breathing room and focus on MY life and MY growth and was able to start detaching my H started re-connecting to his kids.

So after all of my fears and H's protests, it ended up being better for everyone, considering the circumstances of our reality AT THIS TIME. Not what I wanted, but what was better given where our lives are.

Have a safe trip back.

[bluesgal]

Melissa-seems like you're getting one step closer in the detachment department...

[melissag]

So I came home and immediately felt the post-vacation, come-back-to-my-house-that-my-husband-moved-out-of PMA drop. Ugh.

H texted this morning and asked, "is there any chance I can get dinner with you guys tonight?" I told him sure, he can take the kids out. When he came to pick them up, he asked, "do you want to come?" I said, (in a perfectly cheerful tone, not sullen or anything) "no, that's OK, you guys go ahead." (I am sorry, but as much as I know I need to turn this around, boy am I pissed at him/hurt by him right now - no desire whatsoever to go to dinner and act like a family even though I know it's a load of BS.) It worked out for me to go to the grocery store to pick up a few things anyway,

So when they came back, the doorbell rang. Kids were on the doorstep and H was shoveling the front walk. And of course I found myself thinking, "huh?"

Someone mentioned a solutions journal. I kept one for a little while, but then started to wonder if I was paying too much attention to what H did and not enough to what I did . . . I don't know - where is the line there? How do you keep a solutions journal without getting back on the roller coaster.

I am still struggling with how to not be angry with H. Telling myself he's someone else, or can't figure [censored] out right now helps me on a logical level, but then it leaves a void. I need something to tell myself. To replace "H is an ass and is making a fool of me and I am sooooo hurt that he is treating me this way when he was the one person I was supposed to be able to count on always." I need to replace that somehow. What do I replace it with? And it can't just be "I am doing this, that and the other for myself." That doesn't help me to have a mindset when it comes to H.

For a while it was, "H is going through a hard time right now," or, "I hurt my H, and this must have been what he felt like in order to prompt him to leave," or, "maybe H isn't keeping the promises he made to me, but I am, and I am rowing this boat for both of us."

I can't seem to make any of those stick anymore, though. Blah. Maybe I need to read through my thread again. I feel like I am getting a lot of good advice but I'm not listening.

[melissag]

I feel like a mess, you guys. I seriously need to get it together.

It was so good being away from H for a week, and I thought I had made progress. Well, I did make progress, at least with myself - I pushed through some fears around the vacation, etc. And I had fun with my kids.

Then I get back and it's like I'm back in separation/divorce hell.

I mentioned to H that I thought it would be good to have a regular schedule for his visits with the kids, and he agreed. So a few minutes ago, I texted him and asked him to let me know when it might be a good time to talk about that. He said he had sent me an email.

The gist of it was, hope you had fun on your trip, it sounds like kids had fun. Here is what is on my schedule, I'm thinking about going to see my brother this weekend, blah blah.

Then:

I’m fine with establishing “default” nights during the week or weekend (say, Wednesday and Saturday night) where I get them and if one of us has something that they want to do on a different day, we just discuss and plan. I think that makes the most sense, but I’m open to other suggestions.

At some point, we should also get together and talk about next steps for planning things out going forward. Let me know when you feel that would be appropriate.

Ugh. Double triple quadruple ugh.

I couldn't stop myself. I knew I shouldn't, but I texted him:
M: Your email was pretty formal sounding. Is that where we are now?
H: I don't know what that means. But no, I don't think we're formal. I just couldn't think of a way to work in a good fart joke.
M: It meant what I said . . . it seemed formal. There wasn’t anything more to it. I guess it just made me feel sad.
H: Ok. I'm sorry? I think there are "business like" items that we need to take care of, and that tends to be a more formal process.

Blech. I know I am not supposed to act on emotions, and I know I have to stop letting everything H does and says get to me, but it just made me feel like [censored] all over again. I can't get over how he was my H and my best friend for 11 years, and now we are here . . . figuring out "when it would be appropriate to get together to talk about next steps for planning things out going forward."

FML. All over again. My PMA and my strength are just gone tonight.

[juliegayle]

The business end of it su@ks big time. Did you read over your thread? You have been amazing and of course this next step hurts all over again.

I hope you can quiet your mind, get some rest and wait for the good advice to roll in!

[melissag]

Holy crap.

I decided I needed to just know what he was talking about. So I asked.

This is via text, starting with his response to what we needed to talk about.

***

H: Yeah. And we can do it on the phone or in person - whatever you want. But I think we should start discussing things like a more permanent custody arrangement and financial support and all that.

M: I haven’t thought about that very much. I think I must have misunderstood some things, because this is a surprise to me.

H: I'm sorry for that. I was worried that I had created some confusion. Nothing has changed in terms of my goals here. I don't want to be married. That doesn't mean that I don't love and care about you. But I have no interest in being in a relationship like that now or ever.

M: A relationship like what?

H: A marriage relationship. Where there are obligations and expectations

M (after a while): I’m not meaning to ignore you. I just don’t have any idea what to say.

H: I'm sorry if I communicated something different to you.

M: I think this is a weird conversation to have over text.

H: Yeah, but I tend to want to have sex with you when we talk in person. And that doesn't seem like a good idea.

M: This is very confusing. I am not sure if I understand what you are saying. And I don’t understand why you want to have sex with me. Just purely for the physical pleasure of it?

H: I care about you and I enjoy the physical and emotional experience of sex with you. However, I do not want to be married to you or anyone else now or ever. I don't know if I can explain it any better than that.

****

I am sitting here, with my mouth gaping open.

WHAT? Who says this? What the F does this mean? I don't even know how to feel right now. Should I feel relieved? Angry? Hurt? Is he crazy? Or is he truly just an unbelievably selfish person? So selfish that he can admit it and think it's OK?

Uhhhhh. Anyone want to take a crack at this? I'm speechless.

[loualea]

Hi
Melissa
Who says that.?

My H... same words
it suxs
a month ago I was moving there to share a house.. now he said he did not agree to that..reads 3 weeks of emails in one night says I say the same thing
In them...and says I am manipulating him..
He vacillates around then comes back... gets angry makes iritated comments..wanted to talk finances then says he is coming for a visit.
Says he feels controlled thne says I can telephone....
what is the comment believe half of what they do and none of what they say

.. let's see if that works..


wish I could help..
You will get throught this...
you are tough..

[3boymom]

(((((HUGS)))))).

M - this is how your H feels TODAY. It does not mean that it won't change in the future. Although it was the complete opposite of what you wanted to hear and feels like a blow to the stomach, you know have view into your H's current thinking to figure out how you want to move forward.

Make sure that you wait at least 48 hours to talk to your H about anything none kid related. I think that you handled yourself well giving the fact that he sprang it on you right after your vacation.

M - this is all about your H and his crisis. H clearly is attracted to you and likes spending time with you. H is acting like a child and probably questioning whether he should have been married and had kids in the first place. My H is exactly the same. Your H does not like the responsibility and does not want to answer to anyone about anything.

All you can do is let him go. Let him have the time and no responsibilities. It may get old and he may be as miserable as before. That is his journey.

Although this convo was probably the hardest thing you have ever done, you will be able to process the emotions and move forward. I think that you now have the answers to make decisions about your boundaries. Take some time to think about what you want now that you know what your H said.

Moving forward you should definitely trust your gut. You knew something was up with your H. Believe in yourself.

You can do this M!! You are strong. You are an amazing mom. Focus on yourself and your kids. Set some healthy boundaries. It will help you feel like you have a little bit of control in a situation that feels out of control. Give yourself this week to really think about what you want (other than your H).

[paul19510]

hi M and 3, your description sounds just like my W. She just walked away. She's been distant for a long time and lived here like an awkward house guest for the past year. Even the kids were complaining about it. Only her and her Horses. If the kids rode or did stuff with that great. otherwise...nada. so frustrating. And I know we withdraw when they do this. then they point the finger. well YOU withdrew.....ugh sorry M! Strangely enough, at least its A DIRECTION. maybe not what you hoped right now, but its movement and something to work with or understand. better than the nothing I have the moment

[melissag]

I know I have a lot of emotions to process about this.

Right now, I am not even hurt. I am disgusted. I haven't even gotten to how I feel about myself. I am thinking about how badly he is hurting my sweet innocent children. And beyond that, the example he is setting for them. I am so angry that he is putting his selfish desire to do whatever he wants whenever he wants before his children, who don't deserve any of this. And it scares the crap out of me, that he is turning out just like his Dad, (who, ironically, he thinks is a selfish, narcissistic jackass), because I do NOT want that for my sweet S7.

Today may well be the worst day of my life so far. I got literally zero sleep last night. Too much thinking and also I am pretty sure I have a sinus infection and possibly bronchitis - I feel like hell. So there goes all my GAL, and therefore my PMA. I let H take the kids out for dinner last night thinking that would be the make up night, but now he wants them three MORE nights this week.

I am afraid that his parenting is going to be just like our marriage - it's something he tells himself he should do, or it's the person he wants to be, but he is actually too selfish to really do it. He has said as much to me a few months ago - that he isn't sure how he feels about the kids - is he really a good Dad, or if that was just something he thought he should be, since his Dad sucked and he promised himself he wouldn't be like that; or if he is too selfish for that.

I am heartbroken for my kids.

How did I marry such a selfish [censored]?

Oh, and why is he on match.com? Or 3, why does your H have an OW? Do they think that they are going to find a woman who will be in a relationship with no obligations or expectations? WTF?

I'm sorry if I sound bitter. But right now, I [censored] hate him.