If she needs an invitation, probably best to do it casually like "coming to bed?" On your way there. If she says "no, yada yada yada" just say "no problem".
Resentment occurs when we aren't doing what we need to care for ourselves, though we expect others to do it for us.
SM34, be prepared because you've got a long, long road ahead of you. Your W may be telling you she's glad the A is over and she's done with him, but she's not. The grief process hasn't even started yet. She's going to cycle for a while. Ironically you have so support her emotionally during this time, of course you won't want to support her in her grief for someone else but she's going to look to you for that support and if you don't give it then she may start looking for OM2.
DO NOT ASSUME THAT EVERYTHING IS OK NOW, IT ISN'T! You and your W cannot get through this without professional help. The reasons your W left are still there, and without professional intervention the pattern will repeat. So seek out a good MC. DB coaching would help too.
Where can I read about intimacy conversation? Who writes about this topic?
I just went into goggle search and it pulled up a selection of reads.
I think she has a deep need to "hear" you talk about how she makes you feel (in a good way). If you don't know how to get started, then start by telling her how you felt the first time you saw her..........what you noticed first about her. Make this all positive, sweet, private, personal feelings you are sharing with her........about her effecting you in a wonderful way. Tell her about the first time you asked her out. Were you nervous that she would turn you down? If so, tell her. She may think it's funny that she could have that effect on you, but it will make her feel good. It will be a shot to her self esteem. It will help you sound more humble and down to earth.
Talk about the first time you held her, kissed her, when you knew you couldn't live without her, etc. Tell her how she made you feel more of a man. These are personal feelings you share with her that you wouldn't share with anyone else. That is what makes it intimate conversation.
IMO, you need to divide the intimate conversations from the R talk and things that happened surrounding the A. In other words, a time and place for each. You have had some talk about the A and the M. With her depression and low self esteem, you may need to try an introduction to intimacy conversation. You could start it by saying, "I've been thinking of the time I first saw you". Then tell her something positive about it. Don't use vulgar language, but you can tell her how attracted you felt to her.
Keep it simple and if she wants to hear more, she'll probably ask you questions or show you she's very interested in what you are saying. The goal here is to take a small step (without over-kill) to restore some emotional bonding in the M by reflecting back to sweeter days in the beginning of the R. Plus, some people who have low self esteem feel better when another person tells them how wonderful they are. We know it works in leading up to affairs. It also works in leading to intimacy in M.
Just don't mix into the intimate conversation with how she made you feel when she was with OM. That is for another time and another type of talk. The intimate conversations she needs at this time are all positive talk about her. Think of it like you are making love to her verbally.
As her self esteem improves and she begins to feel on equal levels as you, then you can share personal feelings about other experiences. The intimate discussions should be enjoyable. It should be spoken lovingly. It can be teasing, playful, tender, flirty, or deeply self-exposing.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
SM - 'Stander basically encapsulated everything that I wanted to say to you. The reasons why she left are still there....maybe not the things in YOU that pushed her away, but the things in HER. Man, I wish I could tell you face-to-face, man-to-man that you absolutely, positively, without a doubt 100% need to get help from a counselor as you attempt to weave this thing back together. It's not an option - it is a must. It's more important than anything she can do to make amends, or anything you can suggest for her to read. The reason I think I am this passionate about it (as you know) is that when XW moved back in last spring we DIDN'T do this and it condemned us to failure - I am almost sure of it. I sincerely want better for you, your wife and your daughter.
I know the feeling of euphoria (mixed with latent hurt and anger) that pops up in this phase because you just want to call this nightmare officially over and move on with your lives together - holy sh*t was I "there" last March. Look at it this way, the house is no longer "on fire" but it is smoldering, burned to the foundation and is not yet ready to be inhabited. You have to put out all the hot spots, rebuild the frame, paint, and fill it with new stuff.
I wish I could build a time machine and go back and tell myself all of this when I needed to know it - but I CAN tell you. Please make sure you get help.
I really, really hope you print out and re-read everything that has been posted to you since yesterday and LISTEN this time. You have some of the BEST vets posting here and they are telling you things based on EXPERIENCE...
You have the opportunity we all want, so make it count.
I wish you the best - it's in your hands.
Me & H: 44 D7, D6, S3 Together: 20y, M: 17y EA: 11/13/10, Sep: 12/23/10 EA becomes PA: Spring 2011 H filed for D: 09/06/12 D Negotiating began 2/15 OW seemingly gone on 3/15 Still negotiating D
Thank you for the tips everyone. You are all absolutely right.. I need to practice being humble. I really dont actually think I'm better than her, or anyone else, but if so many people (and my w) think so then it must be true that I come off that way. I'm going to try to be very conscious of it from now on. Out with the old, in with the new.
So we just got done having a financial planning session. She was on the laptop looking into new health insurance for us on healthcare.gov and I was adding up our monthly expenses and debt. She says this year she is very serious about us becoming debt free. She says she is done with seeing me stressed out and wants to do whatever she can to help.
So i wanted to motivate her to get to work so she can pull out of this funk she is in. So in asked her how much her monthly checks will be for last month and next month and did reverse math to figure how many hours she has worked. So I said hey you are working 15 hours a week which is three hours a day. Why? You have the chance to really help us, with your work from the comfort of our home for $20 an hour and no cap on how many hours they pay you for (great deal right? So many people would kill for a job like that that also pays so well). I said if you worked a 40 hour week you can contribute $800 a week to our income!!
I was taking a chance by saying this so early in this process but i wanted to see how committed she is to our family and helping us get out of debt and to a better place. Her answer was exactly what i wanted to hear!!
W: I know baby, you are absolutely right. My head has not been where it should be, for a looong time now. Its time to be a contributing part of this team.
Answer shows commitment, aknowledgement of her head being somewhere else, shows she wants to be part of the team, shows she is ready to be an EQUAL. She felt less than because she hasn't worked or contributed pretty much our entire 14 years, and we are paying for it now. There are of course other reasons she felt lesser than me, as we mentioned earlier, but this has always been a big one for her. She always hated relying on me but never had the motivation to change it. Part of her low self esteem..and low energy, low motivation. Could change now, we will have to see
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Sandi I'm reading some things on google. Thank you for the priceless tip and example.
She was cleaning and found an old chain i use to wear when we started dating. She said she remembers a hot memory of me swinging the pendant around to my back while having sex so it wouldn't swing into her face. She said that was HOT. so I asked her if she remembers the day we first met. Then I told her about my feelings that day and how beautifuln she looked. And how i knew i wanted her forever......and I really did know.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
What STD did she contract? Is it something that will clear up, or something that is now with you forever?
WRT her feeling not good enough, or less than you. Sometimes that is because of you and how you act, and sometimes it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with her. I will echo what others have said -- time for some professional help!
I'm not a fan of MC in a WAS scenario, I think it has a nearly zero percent success rate when one spouse is already checked out. I think when it CAN work is when both people are open to making changes and giving it a try. If your W is saying she wants things to work, go attend Retrovaille or get some professional MC assistance.
Thinking that you can do this yourself is going to be a mistake.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
So i wanted to motivate her to get to work so she can pull out of this funk she is in.
= controlling behavior.
Quote:
I said if you worked a 40 hour week you can contribute $800 a week to our income!!
= pressure.
Quote:
I was taking a chance by saying this so early in this process but i wanted to see how committed she is
= testing her.
You're slipping back into old habits already! Let HER deal with her funk. Let HER figure out how she can contribute more. Let HER decide how committed she is. This is not the time to start smothering her with pressure and attention. Don't try to do everything for her. Don't go into "fixit" mode. Back off and give her time and space.
Acc the std will clear up but it will take some time. Which is good because we are bonding without sex and she could do with some cellebacy. And almost zero chance of OM2 because she wouldn't do that to someone (pass it on).
Not sure on MC yet because not sure of her commitment level. It seems like she's committed but I have a feeling I need to wait for affair chemicals get flushed. Am I wrong on that? Should we go, if she is up for it?
AS you are right. Ill back off. Thsnks for the reminder. So easy to fall into old ways
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
