melissag VIII - but I'm afraid to have no fear!

[melissag]

OK, time for a new thread - I know I am lucky to need another one - it is getting too long because I have had so much great advice.

Last thread: melissag VII - Let it Go

I had grown a shell to hide my vulnerability, what I saw as weakness. (long story but many of us share it, the culture of emotion=weakness) I protected it at all costs, so much so that my H didn't even really know who I was. No one really did. I was tough, sarcastic, wise-cracking, smart, miserable.

I kind of wonder if I did not do the same thing, in some respects. My H has said things to me that show that he really does not know me or understand me at all. For example, a few weeks after he moved out, we had an R talk and somehow the topic of him not supporting me emotionally came up. I mentioned (for the billionth time) that it was very hurtful to me the way that he did not support me in things, but he would give that support to acquaintances/coworkers/gym friends in a heartbeat. He said, "you didn't want my support, Melissa."

But I did. And it felt like banging my head against a wall when I kept telling him I did, and he insisted I didn't. Did I just come across as so tough that I convinced him (despite my words to the contrary) that I didn't want his emotional support?

At the time (and even now, though apparently I need to think about it more), it seemed to me that he just had his own ideas and nothing was going to change them, not even clearly verbalizing things to him.

OK. So as underdog said, the answers for me are right here in this thread. I need to talk with my H. I need to tell him that ML with him, based on the current circumstances, is making me feel shitty. Or, I need to ask him what his thoughts are around it and see what he says, then decide whether I need to set a boundary. I am still kind of stuck as to what to say. I know that UD laid it out in a script for me . . . but I am not sure I can make myself say that. "H, it is confusing for me when we ML because it makes me feel like you want to be with me as your W." That sounds like it is coming from such a place of weakness. And I feel like setting boundaries is really taking the reins for myself. Perhaps I am still stuck in a power struggle with my H . . . I'm not sure. I feel like the reason I need to set the boundary is because I feel that my H treats me like a piece of crap, and I want to maintain my self respect. But perhaps under that anger, is really the hurt that I feel close to him and get hopeful when we ML, and then he drops me like a hot potato (as UD so kindly pointed out. ) So perhaps vulnerability is the way to go.

Do I just set the boundary and be done with it? I feel like that is making assumptions about how he feels or what his intentions are. Or do I ask him his thoughts . . . what does ML mean to him? And then either immediately set the boundary, or take some time to think about what he said.

Just maybe your H does try to make you feel sh!tty sometimes. My own did it as his own way of lashing out because I hurt him. It can be a vicious cycle, but someone has to go first.

I think I defend my H too much, but I honestly don't think that he intends to hurt me. I just think he doesn't give a rat's ass about how his actions affect others right now. He feels that he has given SO MUCH that now it is perfectly reasonable to be 100% selfish and to hell with the collateral damage. (This is only partly mind reading - he has told me just about as much around BD.) But yes, the cycle does have to end somewhere. I think that so far, I have ended that cycle. I am just not sure how he is going to react at this point, because he feels like a totally different person that he did the last time we had a R talk.

I will have to check out the Spezzano book. Good quotes you posted here, UD.

You know they held you hostage too, right? They knew the things that bothered you, your buttons, and they pushed them anyway. They drove you away as much as you drove them away. It took some time in C for me to see this one for the truth it is.

Uh. Yeah. My H punished me in all sorts of ways during our M. He would get into our queen size bed (and keep in mind he is 6'4") and scrunch all the way to his side - I'm shocked he didn't fall off, to show me just how much he hated me for not having sex more often. He was rude and mean to me, just acting like my ideas were stupid, I was annoying, everything I said was mean, etc. Oh yes, I see it. We are both very guilty in this mess. The only difference is, only one of us sees our own transgressions. And I think part of my problem is that this fact is starting to make me angry. When what I really need to do is follow the advice I give my kids, which is "worry about yourself."

And I can see that this goes back to the power struggle issue . . . .

Sorry for the rambling today. Any help with a script for my discussion with my H would be appreciated.

[dingo]

I think a question you still have to ask yourself is if you will bbelieve/be satisfied with his answer (unless it's an admission that he does intend to date) and if so for how long/under what circumstances. Say he says no but then nothing changes in your situation for a few weeks. Will you feel the need to ask him again? I sure did. Was NEVER satisfied with the answer.

Also something to consider would be what level of dating could you or could you not tolerate. If he met a woman for coffee, is that a deal breaker?

[melissag]

I realized that I have been posting a lot of negative stuff lately. My H is a douche. I feel like I am being used, etc.

So maybe answering 2S2Q's question can help me focus on the positive. '

Please do tell us what you've been up to. What did you do that made you nervous but happy you did it?

This would be a very long list to type out here. I mean seriously, I was to a point where I would find some fear in every last thing I did - whether it be that something awful would happen to someone, or I would be embarrassed, or not good enough, or whatever it was. (Let me illustrate how out of control it was - I wouldn't take the highway after a certain time of night on the weekends because I was sure there were drunk drivers, and if we got hit by one of them going freeway speed, we would be more likely to die.) Yes, you may laugh at me, I do all the time.

So I will just toss out a few examples.

• I started practicing yoga - even though I am uncoordinated and have a balance disorder.
• I started kickboxing - even though I was sure I would die of a heart attack if I exercised that vigorously.
• I started running - even though I am terrible at it.
• I I have spent time (sans kids) with my SMIL and FIL, as well as my SSIL, XSMIL, two BILs, and SIL (all on H's side) and went into it with an open mind and open heart - even though I was sure they hated me and it would be awful.
• I said "no" to an organization I volunteer for, when they wanted me to use my family time at an event to procure auction items for them - even though I was afraid they would be mad.
• I went indoor skydiving - even though I was sure it would be super scary and I would probably crap my pants.
• A huge one - I came on this week long trip (planned pre-BD) even though my H bailed on it, and even though I was sure I could not drive the rental car around SoCal, take two kids for a week solo without being exhausted, keep it together emotionally, or have any fun whatsoever. (More on that later - best trip ever.)
• I have taken advantage of my improved physical fitness/appearance and worn tight fitting dresses - even though I was sure I would look like a skank, or somehow inappropriate.

Things I need to work on (I am sure there are more, these are the two big ones at the moment):

• Being upfront with my H and setting boundaries to protect myself - even though I am afraid that he will view it as me being a bully, and I will drive him even farther away;
• Telling people H and I are S - even though I am sure that telling people will make it actually be real (ha!) and that I will be mortified and ashamed and they will think less of me.
• Allowing myself to believe that I really would be OK if H and I get D - even though right now I am so fearful of this that I hate even letting the word come out of my mouth.

2S2Q, thank you for asking that question. It feels good to get some of that out, and helps to clarify a few things in my mind, too.

[Mimi00]

Hi Melissa.... I was reading your thread the other day and totally related to you saying you no longer wanted to make decisions based from fear. When I looked at the complaints my H head about me that were valid, I realized many of the things I did/didnt do were all based in fears. Because of this many of my DB goals were to defeat those fears....some fears may never permanently go away, but through this process we learn to recognize when they show up and push through the fear to responsd/react/make choices that are based on what's real.

Continue to grow...cant wait to see you how you kick fear in the butt

[melissag]

I think a question you still have to ask yourself is if you will bbelieve/be satisfied with his answer (unless it's an admission that he does intend to date) and if so for how long/under what circumstances. Say he says no but then nothing changes in your situation for a few weeks. Will you feel the need to ask him again? I sure did. Was NEVER satisfied with the answer.

Also something to consider would be what level of dating could you or could you not tolerate. If he met a woman for coffee, is that a deal breaker?

I get what you are saying, Dingo, but then I think, what exactly does tolerate mean?

I don't "tolerate" any of this crap. I certainly do not "tolerate" what my H is doing to my children. But I have no choice. I can't do anything about it. I mean, I could file for D, but what good would that do? Basically, I feel like he will do what he will, and if someday he decides he wants to come back, then we will figure out whether we can each get past all this and make something work. I am at the point where it is painful for me for him to continue the way he is going, because I fear (there's that fear again) that I won't be able to get past the continued emotional annihilation.

As far as ML goes, it just seems that all signs point to me not doing it anymore. You are right. If I ask if he is dating and he says no, I won't likely believe him. And if he says yes, I will probably be pretty crushed. Either way, I doubt I should be ML with him. Like I said before, I can't trust him anymore.

[paul19510]

bravo! I want to be YOU when I grow up. that list of GAL stuff is WONDERFUL. great job

I really think you've done amazing.

[keep_going]

As far as ML goes, it just seems that all signs point to me not doing it anymore. You are right. If I ask if he is dating and he says no, I won't likely believe him. And if he says yes, I will probably be pretty crushed. Either way, I doubt I should be ML with him. Like I said before, I can't trust him anymore.

As someone said it before, you have the answers within you already.
This is and has to be about YOU, not him...

(((melissa))))

[paul19510]

M, I agree with what you said. to me ML is something that you might do if healing and moving forward. if you're not moving anywhere good, what's the point in connecting that way....? if it were me, it would hurt too much.

[dingo]

Why not say something like:
ML to me is something special between two people that are in a committed relationship. While I would still like to work things out, we are not in a place where I feel comfortable doing that.

I know you worry that might push him to get those needs met elsewhere but if he does that, then isn't it obvious that he was just using you to get them met previously? Another situation you said was unacceptable.

[2stubborn2quit]

Dingo has a good point. Also, it sounds like you're trying to take responsibility for his possibly sleeping around. You could give him loving that shocks porn stars ten times a day…if he wants to sleep around, he could justify it by "feeling tied down by one person". Whatever happens, it's not your fault. Do what feels right to you.