Moved Back from Overseas to Figure This Out...

[labug]

So, it comes down to this and as Accuray says (BTW, have you explored the old posts? you can glean lots of good info in reading old posts)"This isn't easy but it's simple."

If you want this marriage, you work on you and continue to show that your changes are real. You have true empathy for her.

Every day.

Actions speak louder than words.

About her communications with the other man, again, only you can decide. If you can't get past it, you can't get past it. I understand that.

If you talked with her about the ?OM, what would you say?

[S4tk]

Although this Christmas was the first time in my life when the holiday was internally depressing and sad, we adults managed to play nice and enjoy the time with our beautiful kids. It was a nice day.

W and I did have a difficult convo a few days ago. She has been applying for jobs without luck. We both have a job with the same organization, and our combined salary gives (gave)us a normal life. But being a faith-based organization, she is "done" with the job as well as me. A complicating factor in all of this is that when she quits her job, and/or if we S or go through the big D, then there is a high likelihood that I will lose my job as well.

Since her degree is from another country, and she doesn't want to drop fries at a fast food place, she has had no luck finding anything so far (3 months into the job search). So she asked me what I thought about her going back to school for a Masters in a certain foreign language. The same language as the country of the guy I suspect of being more than a friend.

Despite that, I empathize with her situation and I tried to validate and I do believe the her going back to school is probably a good thing for her life, especially if her MLC is causing her to experience a faith crisis which necessitates a career change.

Then she asked if she could use half of our savings to do that. She asked if that would be wise.

I told her I would update her on our financial situation and then we could discuss what that would mean for her to use half for her masters.

Later that night, we inadvertently entered into an R discussion, and I tried to end the convo. But she got mad with that, and told me that I must not want to talk to her (more of the same type behavior from me). I then reversed course and allowed the conversation to continue. During this conversation, she told me she stopped loving me 19 months ago when S1 was born, even though BD was just 7 months ago. During this talk she did not waver as to her desire to leave me.

At this point, I am not sure how I feel about her using half of our savings for an escape plan. I assume if she does this, and then we end up divorced, she will get another half at that point. A large portion of our savings is an inheritance from a deceased family member on my side.

I don't mind the potential of losing my job to fight for the M. I also don't mind the idea of her using our money to further her education. But I think I do mind the idea that I may lose my job, 3/4 of our finances, and still get left by her.

Is this cake eating?

Is there any way to bring this up while still DBing?

[S4tk]

W has been job searching for 3 months. She may have received an offer to work as a barista at a popular coffee shop today. But it is a branch 90 minutes away.

It would effectively cut her earnings by at least half. (It may endanger my job as well because of the nature of our work, but I don't want to factor that into how I am thinking about this because that is just the unique nature of the jobs we took - both husband and wife are typically employed in this organization).

If she gets the job, she will want to talk to me about how she will resign from the current job. She knows it might create a situation where I am jobless as well. I don't want to be controlling or manipulative. I will try just to listen to her and ask open questions to let her talk.

Then I will ask for a day or two to think about this. As I mentioned in my above post, I would jump into the job market if this MLC was just about a job or faith crisis. I would support her completely and take the plunge myself if "we" were still "us." Since we aren't, I am very uncertain about what I want.

I don't want to push her out the door, but this might be a moment where I stand firm and congratulate her on her new job, but also let her know I am not going to move 90 minutes west with no safety net except a part-time barista job. I want the M, but I also have to be concerned with providing for the kids and my own emotional health.

[S4tk]

Last week we had talked about taking the kids into the city the day or two after Christmas. So I asked W this morning if she wanted to do something together with the kids after I came home from work. She said that sounded fine. Came home a few hours early and played with D5 for a few hours while S1 was still napping.

When S1 awoke, I went up and asked W if she was ready to head out, and if she had any ideas for where to go. I had a few ideas but didn't want to assume anything.

She acted very confused, and asked what I was talking about. I reminded her of our morning discussion and she said she forgot. She then got upset and began yelling about not having time to get things done throughout the day, and that she couldn't get anything done while I was playing with D5 (D5 went upstairs to where W was working 3-4 times to get a few crayons, ask W a question, etc).

I then told W that I just had invited her and that I would go out with the kids alone, no problem. She got even angrier and said that I didn't ask what she wanted, and asked me what planet I am living on that I thought she would want to go out together with the kids.

I just got the kids ready without saying much, and told her I would probably feed the kids dinner while out.

Kids and I went to an indoor play place, had a fine 2-3 hours. While there, I was thinking, "Why do I want this?" Maybe I don't.

[planet]

Yep, WAS will get upset over the smallest of things.

Have patience. What your W does or does not, will have lesser impact on you emotionally as time goes. For now, let it go.

[labug]

By MLC, do you meant midlife crisis?

If so why do you think that?

While there, I was thinking, "Why do I want this?" Maybe I don't.

Good question and one to take to heart.

How would you describe your W in the 6 months after S1 was born?

[S4tk]

By MLC, do you meant midlife crisis?

If so why do you think that?

W has used those words for where she is at, so I feel OK using them for her. Had she not described herself as such, I probably still would be leaning that direction. Except for her commitment to the kids (which is mostly on autopilot right now but is still there), she is questioning everything that I have known to make up who she "is" - her faith in God, our M, her job which she described a year ago as "the best job on the planet", her body (at 36, she says often how she is getting old).

How would you describe your W in the 6 months after S1 was born?

She seemed "better" than when our D5 was born. When D5 was born she was practically paralyzed with anxiety for 2 months and went on ADs. I took 3 months off work to take better care of her and D5 at the time. When S1.5 was born, we talked that first month a lot about how she was feeling and she indicated that she did not feel at all like when D5 was born. She seemed serene. She did have some sleep issues and irritability.

[labug]

Did she get counseling along with ADs? Did she get counseling and support during the pregnancy with your S?

How much do you know about postpartum depression/perinatal mood disorders? It sounds like that's where her treatment was directed.

[S4tk]

Did she get counseling along with ADs? Did she get counseling and support during the pregnancy with your S?

How much do you know about postpartum depression/perinatal mood disorders? It sounds like that's where her treatment was directed.

When W went through postpartum depression after the birth of D5, and began taking ADs, this was her second time on ADs during our M. During the first time, she began counseling. I went with her a few times at the request of the therapist. After that the therapist determined it would be better to focus in W individually rather than the M.

After birth of D5, W's OB prescribed the ADs, and W decided to go back to same therapist for a few sessions.

During pregnancy with S, there was no counseling. Support? Nothing professional or official. Just me.

Her anxiety after the birth of D5 was almost certainly postpartum depression. After about 12 weeks she improved dramatically.

Since W didn't seem to exhibit those anxious feelings or behaviors peri or postpartum to the birth of S1, I didn't see anything.

Around the time of BD, one of my mistakes was to suggest that depression was partially responsible for how she was feeling toward me. I had read about the idea of anhedonia, and other ways that depression can affect relationships. She took offense to this idea, and my insistence that she examine this possibility seemed to make things worse.

But postpartum depression related to the birth of S1.5 was not something I seriously considered until she mentioned that she realized she stopped loving me ever since he was born. At this point, I don't know how the knowledge/idea would be useful to me since I don't currently have the influence/voice to speak that into her life anyway.

Any suggestions or advice about this labug?

[labug]

It's a tough spot for a H to be in for the very reasons you mentioned and due to the stigma attached to depression and especially PPD. Other illnesses people rally around you, support you, bring you food. Depression, people stay away, we hide it.

I also don't think that all women who come to this point of wanting something more/different are depressed.

But you W has that history and depression often recurs (or it waxes and wanes without treatment) and can be a chameleon.

It's useful to you because she's still someone you love (I think) if only as the mother of your children.

You can't make her seek treatment or even evaluation, and any suggestions from you at this point are going to be shot down.

Depression isn't a hall pass, there are too many very good ways to treat it out there. The diagnosis (and she hasn't been dx'd) also shouldn't be used to leverage custody.

It's just another possible piece to the puzzle.