Starting to get it

[mustardseed]

I'm getting close to the 100 mark on my last post so I figured I'd start a new thread. Here is a link to my old thread and my last message there.
Figuring it all out

Thanks for the advice. Yes I have read and reread Sandi's rules and I haven't initiated R talks except for last night because I guess I was temperature checking. I don't know if I was very clear in my last post because I was kind of in a rush when I was typing. He wanted to, I was considering it, but before I made up my mind I just had to know if his mind had changed at all. That was when the R talk came up. His responses were better than a few months ago, but not where I need them to be to feel comfortable so rather than going ahead with ML I told him I think it would be best if I just went to bed.

My sadness comes from having to say no to him, when I really wanted to say yes. But also because he isn't where I was hoping he would be. But I am very proud of myself. For the first time I set a boundary and stuck with it. The last time we ML it felt like the right thing to do, and it served its purpose. It eased the tension, it gave me some hope. If I gave in last night I would have been making it easy for him. Setting up a precedent that he doesn't have to work at this relationship if he wants me back. So I know I did the right thing by passing up his advances even if it hurts to have to say no. Today I was worried things would be awkward, but they actually seem better than before. I think because for the first time since this all happened I feel like he knows that even though I want him back, I am not going to compromise my needs to make that happen.

I know we probably aren't any where near piecing right now, but it was good practice for making sure I don't let my desire for quick fixes impede the work we need to do to have a better marriage than before.

[melissag]

Hi MS, it is good to "see" you here again. I'm really proud of you for setting boundaries that you needed to in order to make you feel good about yourself. I think creating and maintaining self respect is possibly the most important part of this process - it will be with you no matter what happens with H.

I think you did great - I don't think that all WASs need to follow all of the 37 rules exactly - we need to tweak them to fit our ever changing sitches. And we can't be expected to live in the dark forever. Now you have a better idea of where your H is right now, and you were able to set appropriate boundaries to protect yourself.

[mustardseed]

Thank you Melissag. He is so hard to read and I need to keep reminding myself that even though he isn't showing any of his cards now, doesn't mean I need to stop my life from going on.

The problem is holidays. It makes detaching so much harder. I was all over the place the past few days. Going from having all sorts of expectations "Baby all I want for Christmas is You". Expecting a Christmas miracle. And it didn't happen, but there was still joy. Christmas was pretty much what it has been for the past few years and I am grateful that there was no strain-even if I didn't have a Christmas miracle of him suddenly becoming everything I always dreamed of.

The past two Christmases he has been so different--he used to spoil me, accommodate all of my Christmas plans--or at least compromise with them.

The bit problem that I had with him was that he never wanted to do anything. In the beginning of our marriage he seemed to be so family oriented and loved that both of our families had big family parties. Then his family started to break apart into smaller family units and he stopped wanting to do anything with them. So I decided to just keep on doing things with my family which he gradually resisted more and more to the point where I am always attending alone or just with the kids. And I resented it. We always host Christmas Eve and I used to get mad that he would turn in early. However, this year i realize how much he really helps out and rather than getting upset that he went to bed before dessert I was really grateful for the effort he made. Something I never recognized before because I was so focused on what he wasn't doing.

Christmas day I took the kids to my uncle's and I noticed that his husband (who always makes an impressive spread and was busting his hump to feed our crazy and very large family) also sat out of the after dinner festivities. And it made me realize that there is nothing wrong or unusual with that. Why did I make such a big deal about my H doing that in the past?

I think I wanted my parent's marriage rather than accepting my own. Although, I have to admit there is still a loneliness that I have to learn to accept if our marriage works out.

[mustardseed]

I posted the last post before I was finished because the kids walked in.

Anyway, Christmas Eve night, after everyone left and the kids had gone to bed and the house was put back together. I turned off the lights and sat on the catch with a glass of wine. There was some soft Christmas music playing in the background. For about 15 minutes I just SAT--no thinking of planning or analyzing how well the evening went. I watched the Christmas tree lights blink, then glanced at the Nativity sitting on the floor and said a quick happy birthday. I looked at the clock and saw it was exactly 12:00 am. That was my Christmas gift. 15 minutes of complete and utter peace. After I finished the wine I figured it was time to start preparing for Santa's visit so I went to the car to get the last of the gifts and when I came back in the lights were were back on, the Christmas music was upbeat and H was a busy elf wrapping and sorting. We worked in perfect harmony like good little elves who have perfected this task after so many years of pulling it off.

There are some things that we are so good at doing together. I am glad that despite this emotional roller coaster that we can still work as a team for the things that matter. That is my gift from DB. Because in the past I would have let my emotions dictate.

[mustardseed]

I turned off the lights and sat on the catch with a glass of wine.

That should say couch not catch.

[mustardseed]

Interesting comment he made a few days ago that just hit me today. His Aunt and Uncle sent the kids a Christmas gift and I asked if he had the kids call to thank them. He told me he would rather just send a card, he doesn't want to deal with the conversation. he used to be very close to his family, and this uncle in particular. But the past two years or so he stopped wanting to do things with them (or anyone except a couple of work buddies) and would get angry whenever he sensed anyone putting pressure on him to do so (I of course was one of those people).

So the more I think about this the more I think I am not the problem--but I add to it in some way. I know that trying to read his mind is fruitless, but I really wish I had an inkling about what is going through his head. Right now things feel so normal. Not the fantastic normal that we used to have, but the comfortable (yet unromantic) normal we had these past two years. I would push for more because of the loneliness and we would fight about it then make up. BD was the same pattern except he came right out and said he wants out--and I always wondered if he was saying it to shut me up or because he means it.

I still don't know. I am not sure if he even knows. It was the same pattern at first but I changed the game by not begging, crying, pleading. In fact I slept on it, and then agreed with him the next day. Two days later I took it back and said, I didn't think we should end our marriage but I do agree that how things are isn't working.

For some reason we just don't know how to make it better--although I think the distance I am giving him is helping. It just stinks because the attraction is still there on both ends, the parenting team work is great, the household stuff (finances excluded although that is getting better) is good. It really feels like this should work out. But I don't know if he really likes me, like if he wasn't attracted to me and we didn't share children, I don't know if he would want to be my friend. And that is making me self conscious. That is why I feel the need to mind read. I want to know if this is a problem of him just discovering that I am not the person he thought I was and we have nothing in common--in which case there is no hope, or if there is another reason that can be overcome with time and commitment.

I don't want to hear him say he doesn't want me again, and that is part of what is keeping me from trying to initiate R talk. I don't want to put myself in a position to be hurt again. And I know that being detached means I am not wondering these things. But when I see him talking to friends I wonder if he likes me the way he likes them (or if he ever has). If he thinks of me as someone who is fun to be around (when sex is off the table), when I am not burdening him with my expectations. That sort of rejection is the scariest part for me. If it is true then it [censored] that it took him 14 years to figure it out.

[mustardseed]

As you can tell from my late night rambling--I am all over the place. I had a do-nothing day yesterday to regroup after the holidays. I have no spending money until 1/15 so I am really limited on what I can do. This is going to be one LONG holiday break for all of us. One car, no one with any plans to go anywhere or do anything, and no money to do anything with anyway.

I really have to get creative and figure out things i can do to get me out of the house. I have 10 LONG days ahead of me. I don't think I ever wanted to rush through a vacation as badly as I do right now. The more we sit around the house together the more I want something to good to happen between us. The more I am tempted to bring up R talk. Maybe it is just boredom. I don't want to lock myself up in my room for 10 days. I wish he would just take the kids out somewhere so I can have the house to myself.

[mustardseed]

So I got myself out of the house as much as possible yesterday. One of my trips was to the library where I found a little gem in Dewey's magical 646 section of the library called "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It". I just finished the first half of the book that deals with why and how men and women are different. The second half deals with how to use those differences to create a fantastic marriage without having to talk about it.

All I can say is WOW. This book is like the Rosetta stone of our past conversations. I always thought he just didn't listen to me and missed the point and just started spewing random hateful words to get me to shut up and leave him alone. Now I realize that all this time we were talking about different things because we brought completely different contexts to the conversations.

One thing he said the day after BD was "I'm sorry I failed you." and though I didn't say it I thought "What the F was that supposed to mean--like he is some fallen soldier or something?" Who ever suggested anything about failing. But now I realize that is at the core of all man's psyche. The shame of failure. For women it is the fear of insecurity. So we try to ease our fears by talking about it, hoping to find security with our spouses (or friends). Talking about it helps us feel connected which is enough to make us feel secure. But for men it is a piling on of failures which causes shame--an emotion they want to run from. So they withdraw, or react in anger to mask the shame. So all this time when I was trying to ease my anxiety by discussing the things that were causing it (and around BD I was filled to the brim with anxiety--particularly over finanaces) he heard it as a piling on of failures. And me coming up with all sorts of plans for us to take care of it to him sounded like I viewed him as incompotant to take care of me.

I guess that explains why things feel better since I have stopped trying to discuss things (although when I think about them my anxiety level is sky high--I just keep giving it up to God). He isn't feeling the shame of failing because I'm not bringing it up. And as a result his mood has shifted which makes me feel more secure. The book also explains how and why our moods are in sync. And why a positive mood can lift someone's mood a little bit, but a negative mood can greatly effect another's mood. Another pack survival mechanism. When one person feels that safety is threatened the rest of the pack needs to respond in kind. So negative vibes are far more powerful then positive ones.

Now I understand why when I was coming home expecting him to be in a foul mood he always was, but when I started changing my attitude (driving around until I felt positive) things felt much better.

So now I know why stopping my trigger response to fear is essential to stop the downward spiral of my relationship. I can't wait to read the second half of the book that tells me how to use these instincts to improve my relationship.

[labug]

I LOVE that book and it was instrumental, along with DB/DR in opening my eyes.

[mustardseed]

Yes, the two really work well together. DR to get us to break the cycle abrutly, and HTRYMWTAI (that's a mouth full--I'm sure I missed some letters in there) to explain why we need to break the cycle and how we can create a new dynamic.