Wonka, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that your ex knows how sorry you are. I could be wrong, just a feeling.
I agree with the boys, that you need to forgive yourself first. You didnt do anything with the INTENT to cause hurt to her or the relationship. That matters, W.
So, I wanted to say to those new to this that you might see some varying stuff during the holidays.
You might see more anger, more resoluteness and more pulling away.
Sometimes some sadness is seen.
Whatever it is, your actions remain the same. Live your life, be positive and upbeat, and put no pressure.
It is especially important not to read into their actions at this time or it could get your spinning. Just accept that with some MLCers, the holidays affect their crisis.
So, try really hard to make the holidays fun. Enjoy your children and your family.
Dont put your life on hold. Make new memories, new traditions.
If your MLCers wants to be miserable - leave him to it. Their choice, their problem.
uR: I do know that Ms. Wonka has wanted closure. She's verbalized it. I still remember the pain etched in her face when she said those words to me. The pain was evident in her expression, words, and tone. As for the comment about knowing I'm sorry, perhaps it rings true on some subconscious level on her part. However, it is no substitute for genuine apology and sincere intent to make amends. Two totally separate things.
Perhaps you feel it won't change anything for you if it came from your XH. One needs to take context of the sitch and the parties involved. Ms. Wonka's worldview has always been one that's based on a strong sense of fairness. That is the trait that makes me want to try to make amends for Ms. Wonka.
Bea: Your suggestion is very good. I can see what you mean about the LBS not feeling heard by the MLCer. I hear you on this pretty clear! Will definitely work your suggestion somehow my my approach to Ms. Wonka. Thank you!
Cadet: Actions are indeed important in being congruent with words. A few days ago, I sent a Christmas card to Ms. Wonka. It is something that I need to be mindful of and work hard at rebuilding the foundation of friendship once again, if Ms. Wonka is open to it. Thanks for the timely reminder.
Heather: It is with hope that I am able to aid Ms. Wonka in the healing part and having her feel validated. As anyone knows, true healing requires the work of two people. I'll do my darn best here. At some deeper level, I sense that both of us are uncertain, unsure, unwilling how to open up to each other to heal together. In the background, there's a palatable undercurrent of pain that connects us like an invincible thread. Is that good for us? I think not.
Mach: I am an internal processor by nature. Hiding? Not really. It is just who I am...think things through and work through my emotions privately. When I am deeply affected by something, I tend to do one of the two things: 1) Shut down and push it/her/him far away at arm's length 2) Take a dive into the deep ocean that's Wonka. There's no between for me.
Goals? Repair the damage done to Ms. Wonka by my MLC. Make it right. Fix it. Ending? It would be nice to have some semblance of friendship with Ms. Wonka. Yes, I am fully cognizant that things will never be the same between us. We were really, really good friends. That is something I believe both of us miss in each other. Move on? I've moved on in my head. To a certain extent, our former spouses will always have a tenterhook lodged in our hearts. I think that's something we need to acknowledge and recognize ourselves. That is if we are truly, truly honest with ourselves. I've dated over the years and I do sincerely believe that I will find 'The One' once again. Guilt? Most certainly. It tells me that I have feelings and do have remorse for my role in the breakup. If there's no guilt, then something is wrong with me! In the early part of my sitch, it was quite heavy and it certainly weighted heavily on me. Now it has lessened to a large degree. This is a nice segue to forgiveness. Self-forgiveness? I think this is a life-long process. It is not a one fell swoop thing and you shout out from the rooftop "Hey, you are fully forgiven!! Let's party". To a large degree, I've forgiven myself for being human and trying my best. However, I do now see what I did to Ms. Wonka is not A-okay. See the difference? Pride? Not really. I have always respected Ms. Wonka's space and her 'relationship' with the OW. I still want to be respectful to Ms. Wonka as she's carved her own life with her family around her, with her job, and her community. It is self-awareness on my part not to intrude in her life uninvited.
Good questions, Mach. Thanks.
AJ: I do think it would bring BOTH of us peace and lighten our burdens by getting some thoughts out in the open. Not sure how this will play out. Someone has to make the first move, right? I do see what you mean by 'reconciliation' of sorts by talking openly with each other. How open is the big question here. Perhaps there will be certain limits on that because who wants to dredge up painful memories and feelings associated with this.
As for your inquiry about Ms. Wonka's EA/PA, yes it did pain me greatly to witness it as I was just coming out of my MLC. I felt every associated emotion as a betrayed spouse would/did. On some level, I totally understood why Ms. Wonka would engage in with the OW. She did not see any resolution to our relationship and she was in tons of pain being the receiving end of my MLC antics. Sure, the OW rescued her. That is their choice to make. Right or wrong...it does not matter at all. There's nothing moral pr moralistic about this as Ms. Wonka was in world of pain and she did what she thought best at that time.
Thank you all for your insights and perspectives. Much appreciated!
______________________________________
With the holidays upon us, it is a special time for us to spend with our loved ones and reflect on the goodness of humanity. Our focus needs to be on what's truly good in each one of us and value what's real to us.
Sometime after the holidays, I will be sitting down and penning a letter to Ms. Wonka in taking the first step in making genuine and sincere amends to her. And the first step toward, what I hope, will be a healing journey for us.
In a separate post, I'll post some of my thoughts on how this came about for me and where I aim to go in the next few months.
Thank you for being so honest with your thoughts and pain Wonka. I wish you nothing but peace, to you both, as you move forward
WR
M 16 T 20 M 41 H 39 S 19 S 15 Bomb drop April 4; Moved out April 13 D started-full force ----------------------- Dancing through the fire Cause I am a champion and you’re gonna hear me ROAR
I for one, am interested in hearing that second post and how things go, Wonka. I do sincerely wish you the best in this part of your journey.
I think you're on the right path. I'm glad to see you there because I think you'll find it highly important and freeing. We're wired, as humans, for social interaction. We're also wired for reconciliation - not always the outcome we initial desire, but we do need to be reconciled with others in some way.
For many of us, we have to reconcile on our own. It is a truly a gift to reconcile with the other person involved. (I've seen this many times. Sometimes 20 or 30 years later. At that point, many didn't realize they still needed it until presented with it.)
Quote:
AJ: I do think it would bring BOTH of us peace and lighten our burdens by getting some thoughts out in the open. Not sure how this will play out. Someone has to make the first move, right? I do see what you mean by 'reconciliation' of sorts by talking openly with each other. How open is the big question here. Perhaps there will be certain limits on that because who wants to dredge up painful memories and feelings associated with this.
I suggest that you should be resolute in this. It is likely she'll want this but not trust it - at least at first. I don't think I would if in her shoes. I would also wish she had bigger feet but that's separate.
There is healing in dredging up painful memories. But there's also a lot of hard work. And as you mentioned, somebody has to go first as well as lead the way.
I doubt it will go easily, but I do not doubt it will be worth it and that you'll do it. Reconciliation is important, even if you both have to go down different paths. It's a gift that only you can initiate. Without hiding, giving up, or expectations.
Looking forward to the thoughts, Wonka.
AJ
(BTW, as a Christian, your comment above about "poof - you're forgiven for all" rings a few bells. It's a great reminder what Christmas is all about. Just sayin )
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Wonka, I agree one needs to take the context of the sitch and the parties involved.
My worldview has always been based on a strong sense of fairness, too.
I understand that my xh had a crisis. My compassion for him regarding that has been well documented. I have wished him nothing but happiness and peace. I forgave him a long time ago.
Would it be nice to hear an apology for all the destruction caused by his actions? Yes, it would. Do I need one in order to move forward, in order to heal, be whole, and continue to have compassion ? No, I dont.
I just wanted you to know how I felt regarding it in the hope that it offered another view.
I think that for you, this is a necessary thing in order to be able to continue to move forward.
I think that an honest, straightforward, sincere apology for whatever pain you had caused would be healing for both of you.
Your deeply felt love, respect and compassion for Ms. W is obvious.
Do what feels right. Do it with your wonderful heart. Do it without any expectation.
You can never go wrong if you act from a place of love and honor, W. And I know that is where it will come from.
Perhaps you feel it won't change anything for you if it came from your XH. One needs to take context of the sitch and the parties involved. Ms. Wonka's worldview has always been one that's based on a strong sense of fairness. That is the trait that makes me want to try to make amends for Ms. Wonka.
Mach: I am an internal processor by nature. Hiding? Not really. It is just who I am...think things through and work through my emotions privately. When I am deeply affected by something, I tend to do one of the two things: 1) Shut down and push it/her/him far away at arm's length 2) Take a dive into the deep ocean that's Wonka. There's no between for me.
I am much the same way...
I collect information, then I retreat into my own little comfort zone where I sort it all out in little piles of this and that. Dark goes here, and the whites go here, the earth-tone goes over there, etc.
To many, it would appear that I am hiding. That is not what is happening though....
And I am sure you can attest..
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Goals? Repair the damage done to Ms. Wonka by my MLC. Make it right. Fix it. Ending? It would be nice to have some semblance of friendship with Ms. Wonka. Yes, I am fully cognizant that things will never be the same between us. We were really, really good friends. That is something I believe both of us miss in each other.
What does having a friendship mean to you ???
Does it relieve the guilt ?
Does it validate all that you have been through ???
You say that you were really good friends , and I get that. I had some really great friends from Kindergarten too , yet we grew apart over time.
People come in and out of our lives for a reason, and maybe only for a season. Their purpose isn't always known to us...
Yet they are there, and they play a vital role in our growth and personal development. The reason isn't always known to us until the greater plan is revealed....much later.
Maybe, just maybe....Ms Wonka's purpose in YOUR life, was to deliver you to your crisis ???
And when/if you can accept that, there are great things ahead for you....
Hmmm....
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Move on? I've moved on in my head. To a certain extent, our former spouses will always have a tenterhook lodged in our hearts. I think that's something we need to acknowledge and recognize ourselves. That is if we are truly, truly honest with ourselves. I've dated over the years and I do sincerely believe that I will find 'The One' once again.
I have been Divorced now for over 3 years, and I am in a relationship with a very wonderful woman that loves me, as do I her....very much
Life has moved forward, and on for me.
Yet, everyday....I STILL live my vows to my Ex, for what we had, and what we lived....
I still love her, yet in a very different way...and a part of me will always love her...
I still honor her, by honoring her wishes to live a different life from me.
I still cherish her, by cherishing the memories that we had together.
My head knows this, and so does my heart, because they are in the same place, and there is room for everyone.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Guilt? Most certainly. It tells me that I have feelings and do have remorse for my role in the breakup. If there's no guilt, then something is wrong with me! In the early part of my sitch, it was quite heavy and it certainly weighted heavily on me. Now it has lessened to a large degree. This is a nice segue to forgiveness. Self-forgiveness? I think this is a life-long process. It is not a one fell swoop thing and you shout out from the rooftop "Hey, you are fully forgiven!! Let's party". To a large degree, I've forgiven myself for being human and trying my best. However, I do now see what I did to Ms. Wonka is not A-okay. See the difference? Pride? Not really. I have always respected Ms. Wonka's space and her 'relationship' with the OW. I still want to be respectful to Ms. Wonka as she's carved her own life with her family around her, with her job, and her community. It is self-awareness on my part not to intrude in her life uninvited.
I do see the difference between it all, and that it isn't okay....
I also know that forgiveness has zero to do with Ms Wonka. And that it shouldn't be screamed, it should just be lived.
What I also see, is that there is something lacking in all of this. That maybe what you have went through, and what she went through, and what is learned and what is gained....there is still the final piece to this puzzle...
I don't see any Peace here ^^^
Like everything that happened, was all in vain for you..
Are you at peace ?
Working towards peace ??
Who would benefit the most from this elusive 'closure' ?
Just some things to chew on a bit...
And know this....
If you didn't feel these things, and ponder these things, I would be more worried about it...
Hey friends, I just wanted to write a few things because of something I have noticed.
Dbing is a kind of roadmap for how to live your life.
Approaching difficult things with a beginners mind, not going down cheeseless tunnels, do what works, etc.
To me, it is about saving yourself and sometimes it saves marriages.
It does not mean that you sit around and take being treated disrespectfully. It doesnt mean that the MLCer is not ultimately responsible for their actions.
It means that you look within and figure out what needs changing. It means that you set about changing those things. It means you give your spouse time and space to work out their stuff as a way to honor your marriage.
It means you become your best self. You get yourself strong.
If there is an OP, you realize they are not worthy of any credence or any of your headspace.
It should not mean that you are putting your life on hold. It should not stop you from moving forward and living your life. It isnt about holding on at the expense of you.
When you are ready, you make decisions from a place of strength, not fear. You make them based on how you want to live your life. And that may or may not include your spouse. Your choice always.
It is not about looking at them and wondering what they are thinking or feeling. That isnt possible.
Take back your power.
Do what you need to do for you and your children. That's where your focus needs to be.
Trying to figure them out is a waste of your time and energy. They are in crazytown, population them. Use that energy on you.
There is nothing you can do to hurry this along. Worrying has on affect on the outcome.
Their journey is theirs. Your journey is yours.
You cant do anything about how they walk theirs, but, you sure can do something about how you walk yours.
but that's separate.