Moved Back from Overseas to Figure This Out...

[S4tk]

So, is there an A?

In your first paragraph after the quote, do you mean NOT a dealbreaker?

What you do is completely dependent on you. If her contact with this person in the sophisticated European country is it for you, then you have your answer.

I forgot the NOT and my wording was cloudy, but what I mean is that this EA is not an unconditional deal breaker - so I will keep DBing.

But if it were a deal breaker it would almost be easier because part of me is ready to move on. So I will channel that part of me into the more positive direction of better GALing, more heartfelt 180ing, and healthier detaching - because in a strange way the EA now allows me to do that with less expectations. Does that make any sense?

[S4tk]

So, is there an A?

I would say yes, based in the fact that she lied to me about contact with this person, that she lied back before BD and said she didn't even know whose number that was, that he is saying things like, "Sweet dreams, my darling," and, "Kisses" (translating).

I just don't know if it is EA or EA+ since W did have the opportunity to physically meet OM when she took those trips.

[labug]

So what's your plan?

[S4tk]

So what's your plan?

I feel that the revelation of the A is still too fresh for my mind to be making a proper decision. For now, the plan is to keep DBing, doing those 180s, enjoying the kids, being grateful for what I have...at least for the next few weeks.

I have enough of myself to work on, and I have been feeling a measure of happiness working on myself.

I am also stuck with the truth that if I confront her, and if I were to ask her to leave (neither of which I am emotionally prepared to do right now), it will be an angry interaction on her end. I will have to reveal that I checked her phone, which she will then use to route the whole conversation back into the "s4tk is the bad guy" domain.

But one thing I see now - the M (we had) is dead. On her end, she feels that I am dead in an H way. She has mentioned the idea of mourning, like there was a death. On my end, a lot of trust in her has been lost. Maybe something can be rebuilt from the ashes, but I don't think we are there yet.

[S4tk]

1) Should I say anything to speed up the S? From what I am hearing, there's a good chance she won't see her need to change, or come anywhere close to wanting to reconcile, until S happens.

No. Read Dobson's "Love Must be Tough", I think I suggested it earlier. It will address this. Basically in Dobson's terms you need to throw open the cage door, let her know you support her in whatever decision SHE makes. But it is HER decision to make. Your attitude should be that you want her to stay and work on the M, but you respect her wishes and if she feels that she needs to leave to be happy then you are not going to stand in her way. Read the book, you'll find it helpful.

Another Stander wrote the above in my previous thread. I did go ahead and read the book he suggested, and I am wondering whether knowledge of an OM might make a difference in how I choose to act?

Dobson actually recommends something a little more drastic in a case where an OP is part of the picture and the WAS is saying the M is over, but living at home and not leaving the open cage door. In Dobson's words, I think he says something like sometimes it is necessary to "precipitate a crisis". He talks about a tire blow out versus a slow leak. At least with the blow out, everything is obvious and out in the open. The WAS is then given an opportunity to look inward rather than blame the LBS.

I have been thinking about the Dobson route for the last few days. It appeals to me because the knowledge of the OP makes it painful to interact several times daily with W and I am seeing that if she wants out and feels done, then basically she has chosen OM over me.

But three voices are keeping me from forcing a blowout: my IC, myself, and a good friend.

My IC seems to think I should talk to W but to "invite her back into a new, truer R where we acknowledge the old M is dead but we commit to a new R with mutual repentance" and to acknowledge knowing about the OM but let W know I don't think she is a bad person because of it (IC is concerned, having met W, that she has been conditioned earlier in life to see herself as bad - and that my own faults and issues have at times fueled that false perception of herself).

My own voice doesn't want to do anything before consulting a L to determine how leaving with the kids or asking her to leave without them could damage my ability to get custody (at least shared). I am very concerned about that.

Finally, my good friend who knows W and saw her in the months surrounding BD is concerned that if I precipitate a crisis, she might do something harmful to herself when everything is fully out in the open.

So it is Dobson and myself vs. my IC, my friend, and myself. I'm fighting myself, never a good sign. Where do members of the DB community fall?

[labug]

I read some of that book, mostly the opening the cage chapter.

Would you use his verbiage or come up with your own?

What do you mean by leaving with the kids? Without her knowledge?

What does having her leave without them mean?

And in the final analysis, you have to decide if you're done.

[S4tk]

I read some of that book, mostly the opening the cage chapter.

Would you use his verbiage or come up with your own?

What do you mean by leaving with the kids? Without her knowledge?

What does having her leave without them mean?

And in the final analysis, you have to decide if you're done.

Labug, thank you for sticking with me here. When you respond, it helps me to see that I am not being clear. Being aware of my lack of clarity helps me to realize and accept that I have a lot of work to do in improving my communication.

I am not done. If what I wrote above indicates that, then I was not clear. i know I tend to analyze things quite a bit, and chew on both sides of a decision. That definitely comes out in my journaling and my advice requests here. So I understand that confusion.

The truth is, I do not feel like I am in control over the decision of my "doneness". I am not done. But I will use an illustration: two Olympic pair figure skaters. If one of them decides to retire, the decision is made for the other. The unretired skater then chooses either to retire, find a new partner, or continue solo.

Back to the M. I am not done, but I am becoming more OK if her "doneness" is permanent.

Precipitating a crisis, or forcing a blowout, would be an attempt to foster an environment where we both have a chance to evaluate things more effectively. But it is risky.

[S4tk]

Help, I want to confront her about the other man... should I do it? If not, talk me out of it.

[labug]

Why do you feel the need to confront her?

How are you going to confront her?

If you do confront her, have no expectation that it will improve anything. Do it because it's what you need to do, not because you want to teach her a lesson or scare her back.

[labug]

Have you read DR? Standing as it's called her means just that, you stand for your M. You honor your vows, you let go of the spouse, work on yourself and sometimes the WAS sees the changes, reevaluates and wants to be married.

That often takes a lot of time. The WAS has to get over their hurt before they are even able to care if the LBS is making changes, let alone believe that the changes are lasting and a new a better R can happen.

So you are in control of whether or not you're done. I think you have a lot of really uncomfortable emotions right now and your response to that is attack.

You didn't answer these questions above and I think they're very important.

What do you mean by leaving with the kids? Without her knowledge?

What does having her leave without them mean?

I ask questions because sometimes others see holes, possible pitfalls, in the story that you don't see. It's not that you're writing isn't clear, it's just not always the whole story.