But Rick what if you divide assets and debts equally, and then you are entitled to 10 years of spousal support your spouse doesn't want to pay, wouldn't you be able to agree to split the assets differently if that makes it easier for the spouse to agree to?
Here it is a fixed formula, but that's a starting point. If a couple walks in with a different agreement the court wouldn't reject it, that's my understanding.
My H offered $0 spousal support, because he doesn't think I'm entitled to any, after all he "subsidized" me during our marriage. He doesn't want to pay anything for the kids above the legal child support formula, which doesn't cover lacrosse or psychiatric out of pocket expenses. I think we have things to negotiate amongst ourselves and our lawyers before we file.
My H left all the stuff in the house. He didn't ask for any of it, and neither did I. It's just stuff. He took his clothes and his car, and I wish he'd take his d*amn gun safes too.
We have no debt, just the house, and he wants to co-own it until S13 is out of high school. I have to decide if I'm ok with that. If I can afford to buy him out I'll buy him out (then there's that price, negotiable right?), but if I can't afford it, or if it improves my net result, I'll agree to co-owning.
So much that I find complex.
One thing I'm not concerned about at all is staying amicable. I've been negotiating contracts and handling personalities for 25 years. In business, it's business. I would never, ever, accept a financial loss in order to keep someone from acting as if they feel mad. If they do, they'll get over it, and it's not my problem. I'm diplomatic, and I look for win-win's, but I'm not a pushover.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Welcome to our neck of the woods! I don't have much time - lots of issues here at work - but I wanted to butt in. I mean chime in.
You may have said this before, but have you got all the facts for VA's support requirements? From what I remember from my friends, there are some issues that have cropped up that are part of your legal system there. Just making sure, since you are not a "no fault" state and there have to be grounds to file.
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My H offered $0 spousal support, because he doesn't think I'm entitled to any, after all he "subsidized" me during our marriage.
Ha ha, BS! Most states consider a marriage longer than 10 years as the benchmark for receiving spousal support. I'd say in your case, since you have to have grounds to file (hello, abandonment), the state is going to ask him to cough up some $$$. That being said...
My XH and I also used a mediator. We didn't even need any attorneys because of that. It was a really good thing. Your background in negotiating is a fabulous skill set, because you realize that this part of a dissolution is all about business. Good for you.
Anyway, back to you. I elected to forego spousal support. The mediator told me what that monthly number was, and I elected to push the lump sum to other assets. How the numbers worked at the time, I was entitled to 4 years, so I did the math and used that bottom line number to allocate elsewhere. The elsewhere also got me off the hook for taxes (spousal support is taxable income for you; child support is not). I got the house. He signed the quit claim and I refinanced. Didn't need to buy him out. Don't know if that will work for you too.
Like you surmised, my child support identifies what that includes. Our agreement also stipulates that he will split costs for extracurricular stuff. (I suggest you provide a list with the caveat of it not excluding items not mentioned.) We also addressed college.
Feel free to tell him to come get his crap out of your house. My XH also left stuff behind (still has a few items too). Slowly, I've put his stuff in the garage and told him to come pick it up.
So to answer your question applied to my circumstances:
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But Rick what if you divide assets and debts equally, and then you are entitled to 10 years of spousal support your spouse doesn't want to pay, wouldn't you be able to agree to split the assets differently if that makes it easier for the spouse to agree to?
I absolutely did do this.
The one thing that is not renegotiable after the fact is spousal support. So make sure you have all your facts before you decide to give that up. I personally opted out, because I knew very well that if he had to write that check to me every month for 4 years, he was going to be a total dick to me, especially the day he wrote that check. So it paid for me to find another way to get that money.
Side note on a house refi. I had a close friend who was a mortgage broker who gave me the best advice ever. Before any filing, he had my XH sign the quit claim and we did the refi in my name only. It looked better on paper that we were married. (You don't have to disclose a separation that has not been filed.)
AD, good luck.
An old friend I met here (if anyone remembers Heart2Heart) also had an SO who moved out and left everything there. They wound up reconciling, but while they were separated for 2+ years, she was pretty resentful that he left his stuff behind. She used to call it "the museum of us". I've thought about that for a really long time now. I think part of them likes the fact that they can drop by and still see glimpses of their old life. Kinda weird, but I think it applies in my case too.
Anyway, welcome to Surviving. You're definitely a thriving survivor.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
I did the opposite. I agreed to increased spousal support knowing that it was offset with an unbalanced 401k distribution. The way the L explained it to me is that the courts will essentially let you do whatever you want as long as you agree to it.
My w would rather have the income and I preferred the savings, so it all worked out.
Makes sense. It's about who needs the cash and who can afford to have it tied up for a while.
Speaking of BS, ha! I definitely expect my H to balk at any upfront lump-sum arrangement for spousal support because he wouldn't have to pay it all if paying monthly and I cohabit or remarry partway through the term.
I also note that it is not likely a coincidence that my state puts more significance on a marriage of 20+ years, up to the date of separation, and we made it to just over 19. But whatever.
I'm not going to get excited about a couple hundred here or there, but I really want to be able to survive on my own and put savings aside for my retirement and kids' college. AND, he owes me the ability to get back on my feet. I married him for life, I gave him my best, and was true blue to him. I'll have a good life whether I'm rich or poor, but I will ask for everything I'm entitled to.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I did make sure there was a marraige stippulation on the spousal support. My STBXW is smart and loves money, I bet she will get remarried the day after the last payment.
I went to a wedding tonight, to see my nephew get married, and dragged the boys. They got the "It's important to celebrate life's milestones with family" lecture. My boys and I were the only family there from H's brother's side, which I thought was sad, so I recorded some of it for grandma. When I walked in I got surprised with a request to read scripture, so I did. It went really well. The only part of it that I started to feel a little bad was when they broke a glass after talking about how easy it was for a marriage to become broken and how hard they'd try not to let that happen. I hope they do, and from what I've seen, they've got what it takes. They were very sweet and so in love.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
What good is a 60-degree December day if its going to drizzle a thunderstorm? I'm feeling mopey so i will see if cardiokickboxing turns my mood around.
I put up my beautiful tree last night. Everybornament has a particular meaning, one from each yeay of each kid's life, the rest from vacations and wedding gifts from 20 years ago. They made me smile, and i thought about leaving off the crystal 1993 bell that was an actual wedding gift, but decided to go all out and use everything.
However, wrapped up in Christmas ornaments is always the crushing tragedy (ok thats too melodramatic but cant think of a lesser word) the christmas prebonb when i learned sometime during the year h had destroyed and thrown away the evidence of the oldtime ornaments that were bought with wedding money and a large chunk of the kids' ones. It was devastating. I believe it happened in a fit of temper, h never explained other than i left them out in the back of the work area.
I Thought at the time that I might hate him forever for that, and we would have to get divorced, because our relationship has gotten so bad. That he would do something so mean and be so blasé about it. But I took a deep breath, put it behind me, and made a list of what was missing so I could replace it. I love the replacements as much as the originals because the meaning is still behind them, but unfortunately the meaning of why they had to be replaced still hides there too.
I may need help really putting that behind me. I try to think that he must have been in incredible pain at that time too, but even that makes me sad.
Don't know how to put it really behind me.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I'm just finishing Into Thin Air, never read it before, and I see a lot of useful lessons in it. One: don't get hooked on mountain climbing. lol
I feel like I'm at high altitude and I've got to have the will to keep walking no matter what, to survive, to accept the reality and make the best of it, stay positive and not allow myself to dwell on could have beens. It is up to me to get through and when I do, I'll see the world more clearly and truly appreciate what I have been given.
In other news, I decided to see if H's friend wants to meet up for coffee. I've held him at arms length or farther since H moved out of our house and into his, and now H has moved on to a rented room somewhere else, so I feel like I can clear the air. H's friend likes the drama of dysfunctional relationships and can be a busybody and I had no interest in allowing him to try to be a go-between between us, so I let him be just H's friend this past year. I'd like to tell him no hard feelings, I appreciate that he was being the best friend he knew how to be, and though I'm not interested in discussing H with him on an emotional level, I'd like to renew our acquaintanceship and go from there.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
I'm just finishing Into Thin Air, never read it before, and I see a lot of useful lessons in it. One: don't get hooked on mountain climbing. lol
I feel like I'm at high altitude and I've got to have the will to keep walking no matter what, to survive, to accept the reality and make the best of it, stay positive and not allow myself to dwell on could have beens. It is up to me to get through and when I do, I'll see the world more clearly and truly appreciate what I have been given.
Gosh ad, I sure understand where you are coming from.
Hope is powerful. I try to stop saying should have been or should be and move toward I wonder what my life could be like. That gives me a sense of hope instead of a sense of doom. Whenever I catch myself saying should's I try to start wonder of what my life will look like being content and I try to take steps in that direction.
I guess the question is what would your life look like being content and what would it take to move in that direction?
You can not change your past, but you can ruin a perfectly good present by worrying about the future.
I think i am content with my life. Its a challenge but i have a strong will. Ineed to get through the settlement and D, keep my teenage boys fed and clothed on a tighter budget than before because i'm close to running out of money, and finding a job because i'll be unemployed at the end of june.
But i take deep breaths when needed and keep putting a foot in front of the other. It's not easy but it's rewarding. I notice with all my "problems" that i see people around me more stressed and less happy, see it all the time. Some things get me down but i get back up.
The christmas ornament memory, instead of pushing past it, i think i need to dig into it more until it becomes just another part of me that makes me me, like the scars on my knees from the years of rollerskating as a kid. It will be ok.
I have peace and joy in my heart but worry on my brow as i head into these challenges. No mantra or platitude is going to get me a new job to feed my kids! Yikes. But i trust in my abilities.
Breathing.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
