SM34's Post

[adinva]

If you feel like you cannot get out of your financial difficulties without the recent addition of your separated wife's income, you risk selling your soul for money. The way you are framing this currently, leans perilously close to sounding like you feel you must put up with your in house separation and wife going off to have sex with om, indefinitely, because you can't afford the lifestyle you want if you don't have her paycheck.

I don't think that's the case. I think it's an excuse you've recently picked up because she started working, another excuse that enables you to justify the status quo.

At least start thinking about what your options are, and then you can choose whichever one you want. You can still choose this one. But if your W disappeared off the face of the earth, would you go bankrupt and become homeless with your daughter or would you have a plan b? Get to work on plan b.

My reason is because you blame a large portion of your marital and personal issues on your lack of financial success in your business. So get to work on fixing that.

I agree with you that W should contribute financially to the household since she's able.

But if your W's income is the key to your plan to show your W financial strength, you're not actually doing the personal growth you want to do.

Again, I'm not saying not to let her contribute, I'm saying also figure out your life.

Are you living beyond your means, how are you going to pay off your debt, what is your backup plan to reduce expenses if you decide living with your separated spouse is not good for you or your daughter? So you don't have to sell your soul to make ends meet. You have choices and you pick the best one. You currently frame these questions as if you are powerless, and taking back your power is up to you.

That is a personal development question you would want to be working on as a DB-er.

Another, which I brought up eons ago, was the paternalistic attitude you had toward your W and the condescending attitude and stereotypes you sometimes reveal particularly about woman and Americans. As a representative of both, your W is subject to all kinds of analysis and misperceptions when you don't look at yourself and her as two unique humans.

Why people don't offer you more things to work on? They do, but you don't hear. When personal items were pointed out, you changed your tack to claim these were not problems in your marriage, your marriage problem was only X and Y. We encouraged you to look deeper in yourself, and you denied that was necessary or relevant. So people may drift away out of frustration. Or stay and post things that sound mean.

You are in a real tangle. I'm sad about it because I think you don't like it. Some marriages I've heard of were ok with one partner going outside for the sex they wanted. Whatever is mutually agreed to is fair game. You and your W have an agreement that exists because no one refused to accept it. You're waiting for things to change, but there is nothing on the horizon that suggests change is just going to happen.

When in a difficult situation like that, it can help your psyche to make at least some improvement, so I'd say work on your plan to achieve financial independence.

The DB coach's job is to offer suggestions to try to interest your wife. If you want to interest your wife, that's the place to seek advice. Here, you're talking to people who've had experiences all over the place from reconciling to completed divorce, who see the big picture and who think you might have a better chance at reconciling with your wife if you toss her out on her bum. You need to accept that there is no one right goal, not to mention no one right way to get there, so all the voices providing input can't possibly line up and match.

It's up to you to decide what you want and how to realistically get there, and the rest of us can only try to widen your perspective.

[RockJC]

I think you are rationalizing why this is an acceptable situation. The truth is, it is not.

You are justifying her behavior.

Having an EA was not OK.

It makes no difference when, it turned to a PA. She is still married and it is still cheating.

You are talking about how to seduce your wife so she can be conflicted between you and the other man. You are competing for her love.

//Does this make sense or am I completely lost//

This is not an "or" question, you are both. I have been there, I understand these feelings and these rationalizations. It makes complete sense. But the reality, is you are completely lost, because a person who was thinking clearly and who respected themselves would not believe these rationalizations.

I believe in standing. I believe in saving marriages. But that should not mean tolerating an open marriage. Until the affair is completely over and she is willing to work on the marriage, it is time to truly separate from your wife. Ideally, that separation would be physical, financial and emotional.

If a D is required to create that separation, then so be it. But, you do not want to keep living like this. It will tear you apart.

[SM34]

Thank you adinva and rock for your ongoing support. Everything you both say makes perect sense.

Adinva, I have let go of the cultural differences that may habe contributed to our M failing. The bottom line is, she was not happy, and to a great extent I now realize neither was I. Now Im just trying to get a chance at a better life and better marriage.

Rock I understand completely what you are saying. If this was an open marriage, which is a marriahe in which we have sex but also with others, then there would be a much greater self worth issue. Since we don't have sex and I dint rely on her for emotional support anymore, its not an open marriage. Its an in house separation where we are still friends. That could still be wrong and a problem and damaging etc but its not the same as an open marriage.
.
You will say that you are still married and so its open etc. I tried that argument here and I was reminded its just a piece of paper that obviously is not so important to annul for my wife. She doesn't consider this a marriage and neither do I. For all purposes we might as well be divorced.

I need to focus on fixing my finances. No I wouldn't starve or be out on the streets without W income, but with her income she may start to see that life can be better. She may start to at least understand why I was suggesting she get a job a long timre ago when we first started having difficulty. She may at least see that the burden was unfairly put on me while we still had one person in our fanily who was able to work but chose not to. She may at least begin to see that this is partlt her doing too, and the solution was partly in her hands too, not all on me.

And I wish this had come way sooner. I wish she was able to find a job from day one of BD. So then six months in we would have paid of our debt and all of these realizations i just mentioned would have happened. And then by month seven or eight if there was no movement despite the biggest part of our sitch being resolved, then I would move to separate knowing it did not change her mind.

But now its finally coming to that point. And I want to stick around for those epiphanies to occur before I decide they haven't made a difference.

[SM34]

In other words, the 180 on our financial difficulty is about to happen and I'd like to see it through.

[adinva]

So in other words your plan revolves around your W seeing or realizing something, and in DBland that is called not focusing on what you control. You only control you.

Good news about the financial situation though. I do hope it makes a difference for you.

And saying you have let go of something is different from doing the long, hard, and often backsliding work of making a profound change to your way of thinking. So your words don't tell me anything. You don't have to convince me; I just call what I perceive. I have also let go of an entrenched way of thinking, and it's been years, cost thousands in counseling, and requires continual checking and correcting. If you were able to just "let go" I commend you but it has been very recently that I've seen exactly what I'm talking about. One example is the words you chose to talk about handing your wife cash out of her paycheck in the amount of 50% of the mortgage as a unilateral decision to teach her something.

And the main point I'd like to make about your marital status is:
Have you told your wife specifically that you do not consider yourself married to her and she and you are free to have sex with whomever you want? Have you, in words, clearly and overtly, specified that you are separated and living together only as housemates? If she offered sex to you, you would say no?

If not, then your mental definition stated here of what an open marriage is, is meaningless in real life.

[adinva]

If I were dating your wife, knowing that she is legally married and living with her husband and child, and is dating me because her needs weren't being met in her marriage, I would absolutely understand that I was in an adulterous relationship.

[SM34]

I have said that I'm free to do as I please, as she has chosen to. I'm not ready to date anyone because I'm focused on my business. Its a long story of what haopened to it but the short is I had a partner ho worked well for ten years then became a drugie and ruined our business. He is now out, but its a monumental task getting back to where the business was. Still a work in progress but moving along.

If I manage to get the business back to where it was, and without a partner to half the money with, I would be in the top two percent of income earners in usa. So its not something totally unrealistic and its not forever...but it is for now.

Adinva I kniw exactly what you mean about me. I in a lot of ways didn't view my wife as an equal. If there is one good thing that has come out of this mess, its the recalibration of power in our relationship. I had to work through why i had those thoughts and to begin to dismantle them. I could probably develop this further with a therapist and I will do that as soon as i can afford it. But I've done my own personal edfort and i feel I've come along way.

The separation living, and her having her own income will be huge in restablishing us as equals. We will have to see how that plays out.

Adinva to answer your question, if she offered sex would i say no? Thats a tough one. If she offered it in a way that implied i was pathetic and can't be without, I would absolutely say no. If I felt like I had managed to break through her barrier and had actually created some real desire in her, I would go through with it ONE time to create some confusion and then if she wants more then the conditions would come into play.

[SM34]

By the way, I am absolutely terrified of STDs. That has kept me in line my whole life!! The thought of cobtracting something makes m sick to my stomach...

And I only had one previous partner before W. And wife had none. And we were always soooo happy that it was completely and totally safe. So that angle scares me and when it actually comes down to it i have no idea what i would do...

I know W has had blood panels done recently and was clear. But what is OM doing one and half hours away for upto three weeks on his own is not a risk I'm comfortable with....

So in all honesty I'm not sure what I wiuld do if sex became an option. My DB coach thought I needed to suck it up and prove my desire for her if I want her to see it is there.. of ciurse she said only if I was comfortable with the STD angle.