M35 XW34 D5 D4 M 6years T 10years Bomb 5/2013 Joint Petition signed 6/2013 Moved out end of 8/2013 Court Hearing of Joint Petition 9/2013 D finalized in 3 months - no news yet
Thanks that was the one I was looking for. Christmas baking day today. I had put it off as my H was saying he did not want to eat so much .. then I realised that is all about him not me I like Christmss baking so I will bake..
I think I have spent so long allowing his wishes to set my agendas that I have to think through even simple things The question being.. Does this make me happy ... just me . I f it does then do it and if he does not like it.. oh well sux to be him
Even better a new family here asked if I would bake some things for them which I really like the thought of. I do like doing for others so all good.
Not even thinking this is a 180 it is just what I want... like the killer stilettos I bought yesterday. Cant run in them but they sure make me tall. And feel elegant..should I add I haven't owned a pair in years because he doesn't like them...again had to think and realised how much his wishes managed my decisions..
maybe that whole thought process is a 180... don't really care actually.. makes me smile
plus he gave no answer on my January holiday and did he have any plans.. so I have booked a week in Turkey with a friend.. and that news I will keep to myself.. should I send a postcard? Or is that petty?.. or do I even care... feeling good today
I validated from the moment he got up.. started with the hug last night..how that made him uncomfortable.. I apologised..
I validated every chance I got. he kept saying it was all water under the bridge and then coming back to the old issues- Australia, half truths about things, not liking his new town and the constant pressure to improve things and possessions He felt uncared for and unloved I believe. The validating was working I think.
He said our marriage is like burnt earth for him- nothing to recover. I said I agreed that there were so many issues that I did not want to try and repair it. He looked. I said I want to start a new marriage, that I felt like a bush fire had been through me and left scorched earth but there were little bits of new growth.. different from the old.
He acknowledged thatI had a different attitude to people and wanted to know why. I talked about rethinking and re evaluating after the conversations we had had. How the things he had said and the decision he had made were so big that of course it led to thinking and reading and soul searching ( I did not say praying-he does not pray) I acknowledged that my negativity and speaking without thinking were major problems, as was my need to control and manage everything.
I told him about my new mantra.. I can only control myself and had to use that a few times when the discussion became emotional and i would say I need a time out for 10 to pull myself together. he was much better without me sitting there crying.
I guess we talked for about 3 hours. We kept coming back to the marriage is over for him. He said he could see I disagreed. He asked what I wanted and I said the direct opposite of him, to be married and committed and happy together.
He said a few times he did not think that would work for him, that he wanted to look after himself have no pressure no limits and then asked what did I want. I stuck to my being married but validating his opinion. that so much control from people made him feel pressured... I then suggested was there a middle ground for us.. something that was not committed forever but some sort of trial.
His big issue is lack of trust which I validated. We talked about trust not just being there but having to be built. He said he did not think that would happen. I asked what conditions did he think could be put in place to see if i could rebuild trust and at the same time keep him from being hurt. He wants his own space and time he says without limitations from anyone.
So he has gone back home to think about his conditions.
I suggested we could begin to try and live together in summer , that I had been offered ( well almost) a new job over in his part of the country. He talked about where did I want to live and about how I wanted a big house. ( which was true before but I have had a reassessment of values) I said I could live in his one room apartment.. he said that would be the end of us .. not enough room.
He was talking about buying a house and how he knew I would insist we buy a house but I said I thought while we were figuring things out we should rent and have separate bank accounts and share the costs until we see how it all works. It took me 2 tries to get him to understand I did not want to buy a house.
He seems to remember all the things I have said over the years and had trouble hearing that I now thought other things were more valuable. He said I was the Fishermans Wife and I agreed and validated ( how that must have been pressure)...said I regretted that attitude..and was now working from another place.
I also said that I would have conditions.. he did suggest we get divorced and then try living together again... I just left that one..
I have agreed that if we can not build trust between us then we will finalise everything after a year..Not sure if that was a good idea but I did want him to now i understood his position and would not ignore his wishes..
This long conversation was not my plan. He was the one who brought up divorce as a word but did not seem to have thought through how that would look. He seems to want no pressure or commitments.. or to be beholden to anybody ( except he is beholden to the OW it seems at times) .
When he asked what I thought, I could not say I agreed... I am sure I should not have negotiated but being open and not trying to manipulate and saying honestly what I thought- without crying.. he seemed to be listening let's see what happens when he gets home remembering the believe nothing of what they say..
Lou, it sounds like you did a great job talking with H. He has gone home now with a lot to think about - and a lot to challenge his formerly held (negative) beliefs about you.
This part really hit me:
Quote:
He seems to remember all the things I have said over the years and had trouble hearing that I now thought other things were more valuable.
I have always had a hard time dealing with this with my H. He will take something I said literally 12 years ago and insist that I still feel that way, even if I tell him (and show him) very clearly that I don't. He would argue with me about how I felt, using some very old conversation as proof that he was correct. So I am pretty sure he is doing that now, too. It is very difficult for some people to see or believe (or want to believe , maybe) that things are different than they thought. Perhaps it is easier for your H to believe the negative things he thinks about you, because then he can continue to blame you and be with OW without guilt.
I think you did the best you could have, though!
WASs are so weird. Why would he want to get D and then try living together?
Does your H try to avoid conflict? Is it possible that he is throwing things out there to just smooth things over?
I hope you are proud of yourself, Lou. You were kind and validating and respectful to your H, yet still true to yourself. I am proud of you!!
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
Hi Melissa thanks for that and for reading all that stuff I wondered is this OK and where is this going the whole time and the word validate screaming in my head..
He was in such a good mood i did not want to spoil it.. but I think it was OK . He was even good to teh dog this weekend
Ithink you hit the nail on the head.. if I am negative and critical and controlling thne he is free to doo what he wants but if I am the good guy.. well that makes things different.. I think what is really great
and a lot thanks to you and your "encouragement" is that the changes he asked about in attitude are real , not get my H back changes. i am grateful and I do think everyone is doing the best that they can, and that i am not in control, nor do i want to be.. that everyone has some good and I need to see it and I should remember to saythank you all the time and mean it and i should look out for small reasons to have gratitude.. and material possessions mean nothing unless the relationships are good.. that speaking quietly and giving him time to answer - even if he leaves these LONg silences i just want to fill with chatter are important and at the end of the day you rely on yourself..
Yes he is a big conflict avoider but today it did not feel that way. he said we have 2 opposite opinions about the same topic. i agreed and said we both think we are right so is there a middle ground ? Are there conditions that yo need to feel safe and protect yourself? maybe he was avoiding conflict I will see and you will hear.. He did look at the dog and ak what would we do with him.. so i do think he was really thinking not just running..I hope so..
I have spent a lot of time reading Melissas thread... amazing I don't even have to do any thinking.. she is doing it for me!
The comment about planning and then being disappointed when it doesn't work so much me and hard to let go.. I even wonder about working on myself am I secretly..even not telling me...planning.. thinking about how to manipulate H. I hope not, I don't want to..Watched Lord of the Rings the other night.. Feel a bit like Gollum arguing with myself... weird.
So he has decided that he will not come here at Christmas. He is OK leaving me alone. My coach had said to expect it and plan for it..so I had but it was still hard to believe he would do that.. I think what made me angry and not just sad was I asked him a month ago what was his plan... that I did want to be with him but more importantly did not want to be alone.. I had no answer so assumed he would be here. Booking a flight to be with my family is now impossible all my friends here are going to their homes . We are an expat community. He knows all this and still looked surprised that his decision made me cry. As soon as I teared up he said Now I had better go.He said we could Skype... really I excused myself for a few minutes, pulled myself together then was able to say goodbye.
I asked when he thought we would see each other again. We had had a good discussion but leaving it for another month means we start from the same place I fear. Except we are thinking about how we can begin to reconcile, what conditions need to be in place for both of us...so maybe I am wrong there..anyway it is hard for me to talk once a month at tht intensity.
He said he did not know, did not know his work plans yet.. and asked why did it matter. I said that 3 weeks ago he said he would be here and did not turn upand did not tell me. He looked surprised, said did I do that, hmm that was bad... really!,, I said if I think he will make the effort to drive 5 hours then I do make the plan to spend time with him... otherwise I have other things to do... all true not manipulating or being a door mat
so he left...He had flashes of weird moments of anger.. but they were brief... better than a month ago and we at least came to some agreements
So now I have a preliminary job interview over in his town. I booked a hotel. I told him I would be in town, did he want to get together, did he want to have dinnner or lunch. He said lunch works for him. all good. He also said he is so busy at work that long emails hard to read.. good point he had mentioned he had a few things to do Saturday so when booking my train home I tried to send a brief email asking what time works as there were only a few seats left he replied... no pushing the time works for him....
I understand he means I was pushing... my primary sin in his eyes..and I knowthat is how I operated but am working hard to control me.... I did not see it as pushing.. I saw it as reasonable he did not.. So I want to say his problem, but I wonder if it my problem.. I think I am not being controlling when maybe I am .. amybe secretly. Part of me feels like saying don't worry about lunch.. but that then is not honest.. it would be good to get together ..he knows I would value it.. seems like a petty 180 a cutting off my nose to spite my face idea... and I will be there.. not like I am travelling just to see him.. I really am looking at my motives....I do not feel I am organising to get my way, he said lunch, I had said I will be in town.. do you want to get together.. He said Saturday, Friday didn't work.... Now I am questioning myself... I hate that ......am I being organising. seemed so simple at the time.. part of me wants to write and say forget it..but that is passive agressive
actually I really hate that he can be so unkind and I can still keep trying...maybe because I see changes, maybe because I feel he is depressed, maybe because I am a doormat.. I don't think so.. I really believe that for 14 years 90 percent of the relationship was good and actually he agrees so there is a place to develop something that works.. maybe I am fooling myself..
so here is the question I guess it is about detaching I don't know. We have agreed to live together in his new town with a new set of agreements...that was progress. we have agreed to sell this house...now the organising me would love to leap into action...if I do it will be pushing, if I don't it will be leaving it all up to him. A 180 here is to say nothing and let him do all the planning.. but is that fair..he has a lot of work stress but is that me then trying to control him.. I think so..
I feel a bit damned if I do damned if I don't..... He raised the topic... I think I will wait until he raises it again... offer to do what he thinks needs to be done or in our case make a list ask what would be useful for me to do...rather than telling... but then I look useless...
any advice or readings on making a plan for reconciling... how do you write your conditions without sounding controlling... How do you negotiate conditions that don't work for you?
Should I apologise for sounding pushy? too much coffee this morning.. bad for an organiser makes them go into overdrive..
Haven't posted for while... Too sad about Christmas, New Year and crappy emails
after agreeing to share a house he then emailed that he wants to live alone, then said we could see how that works and maybe then get a house together..really if he lived within travelling distance I would not give it another thought. But to live there I need to find a new job. He is still with the OW on weekends he says.
I have decided to visit him. He said that he does not want to spend the weekend driving. So I said I would come up. He did not say I don't want to see you. He said I can't stay with him, he has a "visitor".
So we are spending Sunday together...H e wants to meet away from his apartment..
I don't get it. We have talked about the affair. I know about it... I did read that people having affairs don't like the 2 parts of their lives together.
Last weekend he was entered in a 15k with the OW. I was also going to a race as a spectator with my running team. He told me he was running that day , I told him I was going to a race in W.. when I asked where he was running he told me a different town, but I had seen the entries..while checking for my team.. I did not call him on the lie..said I would have cheered for him if I had seen him at the end of the race. She went and he did not..What is with that All his organizations of where and when to meet are the sort of controlling behaviors he does not like me to use!
I am tempted to ignore his rules.....he does not own the country... However that will not achieve my long term goal
I wonder if visiting is pursuing? He avoids stress and some of his thoughts at the moment are weird. Like sell the house and put all the furniture on the street. Which if it was not things crom his grandfather that he used to treasure I could maybe understand, also things he owned before we we together.. again objetcs he used to value.. He was open to me visiting if we were not having frustrating conversations. ? Meaning me not agreeing with him. I plan to affirm and validate.. have a calm and positive experience am I delusional..
I am tired. Of the uncertainty and the pain and the stress. Of living alone, plannig alone, eating alone and waiting for him to call maybe..
Sure I know myself better, sure I could do a better job as a partner, if he was ever to ask, sure I have learnedhow to run, lost 17 kilos, I am not scared of the dark when I am alone any more . Sure I've written journals and defended him to friends and even to myself but I am tired. Of him and his lies, of me and my hopes, of the way he thinks he can act and it is ok. I am tired of his anger and irritability, his dishonest acts . All seems pretty hopeless. He has shut the door, sometimes he opens it but how to look at himself and see the mess he has made, let himself down, gone against all his supposed values. He won't do it , can't do it. He has taken a position and I can't see him changing. He will convince himself he is right, that I was always wrong. . That I telephoned so I could control him, that I cooked for him so I could decide what he should eat, that I bought gifts so I could control the things he owned...that I planned holidays for uz so I could control where we went even if I was planning for the places he had said he wanted to visit. That he designed and built gardens because I made him, that he stood and enjoyd them.. guess I must have control of that too, that I controlled his mind when he did not invite friends from work because the house was so big it looked like showing off, So I am tired of it being my fa5ult. Tired that he decides an affair with a woman from work was a coincidence.. of course he had been finished with the marriage for months, shame he forgot to tell me, shame he forgot to look unhappy, shame he celebrated my birthday 2 weeks before ,
He just called I can't talk to him today I am so done