Sinking into a dark place

[MrBond]

"you sure come across not as MrBond but MrKnowitAll"

Thanks for the compliment but that is certainly far from the truth. Dealing with intensely troubled marriages for over 5 years you'll see that there are similarities in all of them that you will be amazed at.

"I've been married for over 20 years. I've seen first hand dozens of times where counseling has worked."

But you see, the timing of the C and the individual situations are critical to whether or not C will work. Go back and REALLY read and understand what I wrote. I DID NOT say that C wouldn't work, I said that it works mostly in the times when the WAS is the one who initiates it.

You seem to be only reading what you want to read and getting upset by it.

"Do they always, of course not, but that's better than doing nothing."

TO YOU. YOU think it's better. Your W doesn't think so right now and it's her opinion that matters right now. The question is how can you change that opinion.

"Taking the initiative is NOT controlling,"

It is controlling when you've made it become an expectation of yours. Whenever you WANT someone to do something, that's control. They are going to have to WANT to do it of their own free will.

"it's following through on a commitment BOTH of us made to each other in order for us to move forward in our marriage. NOT doing it would only result in another failed commitment we made to each other and would cause more friction."

Weren't you the one that said that she didn't really want to work on anything and was just fine the way things were? If you are the only one that is pushing for all this change, then you are trying to control the situation.

"It would be controlling if I just did it without her request or without her being a part of the discussion, but she said she wants to see one as well so relax."

That's not entirely the way you phrased it above. And hey it's not M. You are free to do what you wish as much as your W does. Based on what we've seen on here though, your W may react negatively to it or tell the C that it is YOUR issue and she doesn't have a problem. Which I feel is something you won't like very much.

"Also, you put a LOT of stock in DB and DR and say I'm wrong about this being a combined relationship."

No that's not what I said. You're twisting words around. I said that it takes one person to change the dynamic of a relationship. Sure it takes two to keep and sustain the M, but all it takes is one to get those wheels moving in the right direction.

"Are you kidding me?"

No.

"That doesn't even make sense!"

It does if you actually read what we are posting to you rather than getting angry at us. It's your M at stake we are trying to help save.

And by the way, we are only on here to help you. We don't get paid, we've all been hurt by our spouses, etc. It's your choice to pick and choose what you want to believe, but don't crap on the people going through the same thing you are going through just because they want to share with you what they've learned.

"Makes me NOT want to read the books if that's the stance they take."

If you don't do something different, nothing will change. You don't have to read the books and if you want to continue to follow the path you've been on so far, you can see how that has gotten you.

"NATURALLY if ONE person changes the other reacts to that change which is also change. Duh! If things were going well, then NO ONE would need to change anything."

Very mature. You're the one who feels "beaten" by your W's attitude. Taking it out on us here won't help.

"I realize that I don't have it all together. I need to change, I need to do some things different which is why I joined this forum and am seeing a counselor. A by-product of me changing in our relationship will cause her to change as well and vice versa. I don't understand why that's hard to comprehend."

Um that's what we told you. You were the one who said that you kept backsliding on those changes. We weren't the ones who said you were "disgusting". You did.

"I joined this forum for ideas, support and ways I can improve. I felt myself sinking into a place of giving up and not fighting anymore. I didn't join this forum because I read the end all to be all DR or DB books. I'm sure they are great, but let's not put all our hope in these books.

No one puts all their hopes on the books. However, the basic concepts about change and what made your M get to the place it is now is universal .

"I believe it takes all kinds of tools (forum, counselor, friends, prayer, books, etc.) to improve your life in any area...not just marriage."

Of course it does. But you're trying to affect an outcome you can't control. Release that control, change focus and your M will change.

Go back and carefully read and truly understand what others are telling you. We have ALL been in the same position you have which gives us a leg up on counselors who only know about relationships based on theory. We have real life experiences in dealing with spouses like your W.