Lots of good stuff here...lots to mull over...and there isn't a rush.
FY, the FEAR is her current state, she's quit her ADs and has been going up and down, very fragile right now (aside from the mlc "stage" fragility). I'm not sure I want to risk "run" reaction, or worse....I do want to try to make this xmas better than last years, or at least good. So picking the time will be important, and also the method of delivery.
I'm also pondering a learning opportunity here for s3, to encourage him to tell her himself. With me nearby and as backup of course...
How would I approach this "as if" things were working out, as the "new" me, as Mach said?
Pondering... and yes, their concerns are more important. This would be less complicated for me if it wasn't the holidays...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
The "run" is just she will get overwhelmed with guilt and feeling bad about herself, what she has done and is doing... I know she is processing that stuff..straw that breaks the camel back scenario...
He's 12.
But yeah, I'll figure it out, just like to double check on these important things that I am not missing anything, and this forum has some great minds and experience...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
There's that fear monster lurking again...must be old man Winter playing his usual tricks.
Here's a suggestion on how to approach W with S12's situation. Why don't you call a family meeting or while have a family dinner? Then perhaps do what the Obama's ritually do during dinner time...what were the day's "roses" and "thorns"? Perhaps this will give S12 an opportunity to express his feelings about W and it will give you some 'cover' from W in that she can't target you directly.
One way to gently broaching the subject is to discuss your own "thorns & roses" first and then look to S12 to say "how about you?" Then go around the table to the next person.
Thanks Wonka, funny thing is that he told her himself...gotta love that boy!
So, I've been doing some introspection lately. Thinking about BD, what lead up to it, etc. And my role in the M problems, detailed in my first thread about two years ago now. All those things I needed to look at and fix, and how I am doing on those.
When I made that list, from things W said and told me, to things I realized (or knew, but avoided), I was very cognitive about it, and how to work on those things...hey, I'm a guy....stimulus/response, plan A, etc
So cognitating on all that, reviewing if those things were fixed, in-progress, needs more work, flailing miserably, etc, I was freshly taken aback at what I was then and the years preceding. If W had all that crap that I had, I would question if I wanted to be married to her...then it hit me, not cognitively, but emotionally...
She lost hope.
All the times I tried, and failed, to quit doing "X", "Y", "Z".
The habitual behaviors like controlling, grumpy, drinking, smoking, etc.
That is what she meant by "You haven't changed". Not that I was the same person she married, but that the person I became wasn't changing his cr@p.
She lost hope. She lost faith in me.
I felt this emotionally this time, because I have had my own struggles with hope and her. I got it. The feeling she must have felt, losing that hope...Ephiphany.
I read the women's threads here, and "hope intact" seems to be very important, even to the ones reconciling. It is found in the R books I have read, if not mentioned by name, the concept is the same. I cognitively understood the concept, the reasons. But now I feel the concept, it's importance.
I get it.
I'm so ashamed of who I was. That I put her through enough cr@p, for her to lose hope.
That I took that love and acceptance I always felt from her, even when she was deeply depressed, I still felt and saw her love, I took that for granted. My ego didn't want to look at me with any kind of truth.
I so get it now.
Cr@p.
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Light bulb moments are a wonderful, eye opening, experience IF you can forgive yourself and learn from it. I've had a few during this process and, wow, some of made me feel 2" tall. I'm fairly certain I'll have more.
Be proud of how far you've come my friend. You're a good man and this is the most important trait.
M 16 T 20 M 41 H 39 S 19 S 15 Bomb drop April 4; Moved out April 13 D started-full force ----------------------- Dancing through the fire Cause I am a champion and you’re gonna hear me ROAR
I appreciate that you dug deep. We all have to do that.
The other end of this spectrum is the part where your EXW loses hope.......The problem is when it would take an impossible superhuman effort to give her what she needed. These are the cases that no matter how perfect you are this would happen to you or it would have been someone else.
I have looked back and thought of all the changes I made, both beneficial for me as well as things not so beneficial.
We all have to access where we stand on the spectrum of unconditional love for our spouse without losing our independent side.
Thank you for continually sharing your journey. I still learn things each day from the forums that help me be a better father, person and maybe eventually a partner for someone else. I will not hurry that part up.
Thanks WR, the thing is, though I got it "intellectually" back then, and through a lot of this, I never "got" it emotionally, had the emotional empathy for what she might have felt.
I do now.
Thanks Mirage, though she is not my EXW yet, this story ain't done...
In the depths of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer. - Albert Camus
Uncertainty is the very condition which impels people to unfold their powers.-Eric Fromm
Ah, T, my friend. I know that you think things through with an engineer's mindset.
And so, things need to add up for you.
I think when you look back at who you were with the knowledge you have now, it seems so clear to you.
Who you should have been, what you should have done.
The thing of it is that when you are living your life, trying to get through, you are doing the best you can at the time.
This really is true - had you known better and been better equipped - you would have done better.
And I know, without a single doubt, that your intent was never to cause harm to your w or your marriage.
That matters, T. It does.
Be careful here not to put your w too high up there. There are two people in a marriage. Her view of herself back then might be very different from yours.
The thing is that even if you didnt do all those things, you have no way of knowing whether that would have made a difference.
The important thing now is that you see things clearly. You have slayed your demons, you have done the work, and you have made your changes.
I know it is hard for you, with your clipboard in hand, to really believe that things happen the way they should. But, I promise you they do.
You could have done everything perfectly and this crisis would have happened. Because it isnt about you. It is about her demons.
You have learned all this when you were supposed to.
