It's Not Over 'Till It's Over

[willbwell]

going to get that book myself. Fight, I contact,mind read way too much too. We've got to learn better

[S4tk]

I just got the book The Language of Letting Go by Melody Beattie. It's a bunch of short passages that you can read whenever and highlight your favorites to come back to - they are all about letting go of the things that are holding you back. I would recommend it to help you move on from being stuck.

It is actually "available" free in daily devotion kind of format on the hazeldon website and I have been reading it for the last few weeks. Has been a HUGE boost for PMA. Sometimes it applies to me perfectly, sometimes not, but it helps every day.

Don't want to link to it in case that's not allowed.

[AnotherStander]

There have been a couple of things really playing on my mind the last couple of days that I feel tempted to mention to my wife, however I know I probably shouldn't & that she doesn't really care what I think at the moment anyway.

That bolded part right there is good DB'ing and is where your post should have STOPPED. But it didn't...

I have been thinking that if she did ever have any doubts at all about this separation that I don't think she would act on it because she will think she has gone too far now to go back.

Firstly by telling all of her friends & family of what has happened and her intentions, & having that social circle also supporting her actions, she would find it almost impossible to then admit to them she has changed her mind.

Mind-reading, but even if true, would you want to be married to someone who is more concerned about what others think than she is concerned about the love of her life?

If she did have second thoughts she would find it too hard to admit to anyone so she would dismiss/suppress the thoughts & carry on with the separation.

Also mind-reading, but if true it's nothing you can control anyway. If that's the way she feels then nothing you say is going to make a difference.

These things really make me want to say something to her like "It doesn't matter how far things have gone and what people might think, it is never too late".

And how would ^^that^^ make a difference? Because like you said up above- "she doesn't really care what I think at the moment anyway". She is on HER journey. Nothing you say or do to "wake her up" is going to help your sitch and will likely just make things worse. You only have control over one thing- YOU. So work on what you control and let her work on her issues.

[Fight4MyWife]

Thanks everyone for all of your comments, they have all been taken on board. Thanks for pointing this stuff out to me.

I have certainly given my wife far too much power over my emotions & that partly comes down to my personal beliefs & upbringing around marriage. This is something that is difficult to just switch off but I understand I need to.

Lots of stuff is still work in progress, but like I have said before I am pretty good & keeping this stuff under wraps when in front of my wife, I am only showing my inner thoughts & feelings here.

I saw my son for 2 hours this evening and wife seemed in a bad mood when I picked him up & dropped him off. I just stayed positive & upbeat throughout.

[Fight4MyWife]

Just received an email from my wife today & then a text message to tell me she had sent me an email.

The main theme of the email is how difficult she is finding it living at her parents & not having anywhere of her own.

Me delaying mediation until January has apparently caused problems with her trying to find accommodation.

There is a lot of chaos & stress in her parents house and she is finding it very difficult to get our son into a proper routine. Her grandparents are ill & her living with her parents is causing extra stress.

She is worried about all the good work we have done with our son in his first 2 years is now being undone.

She is concerned the housing association may end up putting them in an unsafe area where windows get put through etc.

Basically she says she can't live at her parents any longer & it is all very hard and stressful. She wants some kind of decision from me about living in our house.

This is a very brief summary.

After reading the email I hit reply and was about to send her my initial thoughts on what she had mentioned, but decided I should wait & contemplate my response. My initial thoughts would most likely have been emotional responses too, so I have still not replied.

My initial thoughts are that I believed that I did give her a decision which was that she is welcome to live in our house but I do not want to move out, however I would go out of my way to make her feel comfortable & give her space.

In the early stages after BD when I was begging & pleading she accused me of being manipulative and I feel like pointing out that this email is an attempt to manipulate me to move out of the house.

I know I am supposed to "validate" (any further explanation of what that means exactly would be appreciated). I also feel like letting her know that I share many of her concerns about our son etc & have been very concerned myself for the past 3 months.

I also feel like pointing out that these are her decisions & that I can not be responsible for her decisions and that she shouldn't be trying to make me feel guilty for the decisions she is making.

I know some of my initial thoughts on this are maybe inappropriate and therefore any comments thoughts on this are welcomed.

[Wonka]

F4MW,

Glad you decided to not hit the "reply" button. Good Lord for your good sense to hold your fingers still.

Please do post draft responses here for feedback and input. This way we can assist you in ensuring that the tone is not too guilt-inducing and not heavy on the emotions. I've done this a good number of times myself when I was a newbie and the "older" vets helped by offering feedback and suggestions.

[Fight4MyWife]

I spent the night contemplating my response to wife's email & this morning I was about to formulate my reply, but before I got to it my wife phoned me to see I had received the email & we got into the discussion over the phone.

I could tell my wife was getting very emotional about this. I tried to empathise & validate her thoughts & feelings but I did also point out that it was a little manipulative. I stuck to me not moving out of the house & she was getting very upset, I stayed calm & compassionate throughout but still maintained my position.

She then said it would "have" to go to court and the conversation came to an end.

I emailed her shortly after to explain that I believe that we can sort things out between ourselves and that is only "has" to go to court if she wants it to.

She rang back later after reading that asking what I had in mind regarding sorting things out. She thinks sorting things out means me moving out & that if I don't then it has to go to court.

When she gets into asking me the reasons why I am not willing to move out and put her an my son in such a terrible situation I found myself explaining that I believe she has other options and that these are her decisions.

She then questions what other options she has, to which I responded that she is welcome to live in the house, but I don't want to move out and also that I believe the relationship is salvageable etc. I think I ended up sounding like I was begging & pleading her to come back again. This was not my intention but just my answer to the questions & my reasons for not moving out.

She doesn't feel we can sort it out between ourselves as her idea of sorting it out is me agreeing to do what she wants.

This second conversation did feel to get a little heated & she definitely got emotional & angry. I tried to maintain calm & compassionate but also did find myself saying that these were her decisions a lot & I could not be made responsible for her choices. I also feel I did talk too much about how I thought the relationship could be saved and if she would just trust me all this could be made right.

I feel frustrated after this conversation because I know I shouldn't beg or plead & it feels like that is how I came across, but the things I said are the reasons why I am not willing to move out of the house. It is true that she does have these options rather than blaming me for her current situation.

I feel like I have messed this up & don't know what I should do next.

[Fight4MyWife]

There are also many other things that were said during this conversation that I have not included above. I may just add stuff as & when I remember things.

One thing my wife said was that I was making out like she was the "bad guy" for leaving but I said I don't think that at all, I actually agree with her leaving and think it was the right thing to do. She was obviously suffering & felt suffocated and felt like she needed to get out. Leaving was the right thing to do.

However the decision I do not agree with is giving up completely.

[Wonka]

I could tell my wife was getting very emotional about this. I tried to empathise & validate her thoughts & feelings but I did also point out that it was a little manipulative. I stuck to me not moving out of the house & she was getting very upset, I stayed calm & compassionate throughout but still maintained my position.

EEk....careful with using words like "manipulative" for it is such a loaded word and carries negative connotions. I'd leave it out altogether. Your W isn't being manipulative at all...she's feeling these motions and thoughts. Nothing manipulative about it at all.

She then said it would "have" to go to court and the conversation came to an end.

You could respond to this type of comment by saying "I'm sorry you feel this way" without agreeing with her or contradicting her.

I emailed her shortly after to explain that I believe that we can sort things out between ourselves and that is only "has" to go to court if she wants it to.

Careful there. You are discounting W's feelings and perception. There's a way to make your feelings known without arguing against her views. One example is this: "I do not want a divorce. However, since you made the choice, you are going have to send me whatever information you want from me.

She rang back later after reading that asking what I had in mind regarding sorting things out. She thinks sorting things out means me moving out & that if I don't then it has to go to court.

I seems to me that it is a veiled threat by W. If you don't do x, y, z, she will proceed go court. Stay firm with your position that you are staying in the house and provide a safe, secure, and familiar place for the kids.

When she gets into asking me the reasons why I am not willing to move out and put her an my son in such a terrible situation I found myself explaining that I believe she has other options and that these are her decisions.

This wasn't too bad. Again, telling her what you "believe" isn't helpful as she isn't interested in your beliefs at this moment. Be solution oriented yet firm on one nonnegotiable which is you and the kids stay in the home.

She then questions what other options she has, to which I responded that she is welcome to live in the house, but I don't want to move out and also that I believe the relationship is salvageable etc. I think I ended up sounding like I was begging & pleading her to come back again. This was not my intention but just my answer to the questions & my reasons for not moving out.

Talking about the R being "salvageable" is a form of pressure. Zip it. W isn't interested in hearing stuff like this at this moment since she's made up her mind. Which is important to GAL, do your 180s, and consistent actions that demonstrate that you've changed. Actions are a lot more important that cheap words. Again, you wish to state that staying in the house as a family is important for the children's stability and well being. She's welcome to move back at home. Leave it at that. She can either choose to come back home and sleep in the other bedrooms or stay elsewhere.

She doesn't feel we can sort it out between ourselves as her idea of sorting it out is me agreeing to do what she wants.

Yep. That is how she genuinely feels at THIS moment.

This second conversation did feel to get a little heated & she definitely got emotional & angry. I tried to maintain calm & compassionate but also did find myself saying that these were her decisions a lot & I could not be made responsible for her choices. I also feel I did talk too much about how I thought the relationship could be saved and if she would just trust me all this could be made right.

I can understand it is not easy to have actual convo with W while maintaining your center. Again, zip your mouth about R and how it can be saved. She simply does not trust you at all.

I feel frustrated after this conversation because I know I shouldn't beg or plead & it feels like that is how I came across, but the things I said are the reasons why I am not willing to move out of the house. It is true that she does have these options rather than blaming me for her current situation.

Try and think about how you would have handled this better. Visualize your convos with W with validating statements, staying calm, cool & collected. And read every possible thread you can here on the boards to cut and paste any quotes/comments that you like to a file folder. I have tons of validating statements, gems, comments, and thoughts all saved on my flash drive.

I feel like I have messed this up & don't know what I should do next.

Nope. You didn't mess up at all. Sure, there were certain instances where it could have been said or framed better.

Phew! The hard part is over for now. Time to regroup and review your cheat sheet. Doing your homework will go a long way in maintaining control of your interactions with W.

[Wonka]

One thing my wife said was that I was making out like she was the "bad guy" for leaving but I said I don't think that at all, I actually agree with her leaving and think it was the right thing to do. She was obviously suffering & felt suffocated and felt like she needed to get out. Leaving was the right thing to do.

Why would you agree to W leaving? That's nuts. You could have validated W with this suggestion:

"I can see how you would feel this way. It must be rough for you and I can understand your need for some space."

See? This shows empathy/compassion without agreeing at all.