Burning, READ what Fly wrote again! It is spot on! Please help yourself and listen carefully to what Cadet and Bond are saying to you. You are in for a loooong ride. As difficult as it is, accept things for the way they are right now.
You have two of the best vets here so far giving you advice. There are many others also. Cadet will give you invaluable advice based on his own experience and ongoing studies. He also likes to ask direct questions in an effort to help you put your thought process on a more solid ground. Mr. Bond is usually blunt and to the point and will force you to think.
Hang in there burning it will get easier down the road. I know, I have been in my sitch for 8 months. I'm hopeful you will keep posting as it does help.
I'm taking in what is being said. I'm giving it and my reading thought and time.
I realize this is over and I need to move on, let go. I do want to be together again but it won't be on my time. Since she has done this before we were married I thought she may rethink and come back. I know things could be better than we had based on what I am doing for myself. She has to be willing and open too though.
We will talk today and see how it goes. I will stay calm and listen. Really listen.
If she tells my of the affair and that we are over I don't know what my responses should be.
I realize this is over and I need to move on, let go. I do want to be together again but it won't be on my time. Since she has done this before we were married I thought she may rethink and come back. I know things could be better than we had based on what I am doing for myself. She has to be willing and open too though.
We will talk today and see how it goes. I will stay calm and listen. Really listen.
If she tells my of the affair and that we are over I don't know what my responses should be.
Yes our marriages are over at bomb drop. There is no going backwards.
You need to MOVE FORWARD, move on - not so fast.
As far as your response, how about this
NO RESPONSE. Would that be a 180? Or Validate that she is making her choices.
Right now you need to worry about YOU first! Stop trying to FIX your relationship or press a button to make it all better. That is not going to happen.
Thanks. I haven't messed with FB in sometime. No snooping.
I know the NC is for me. I do want to save my marriage.
THEN READ THE BOOK THAT FORMS THE BASIS OF THIS SITE"S APPROACH...all else is just talk and talk....in circles.
You are NOT Div Busting b/c you don't know what we are talking about. YOu keep wanting simple answers and say in GENERAL terrms taht you will change.
then you go back to what SHE is doing/feeling/thinking.
Get back to the only person you can control...YOU and work on YOU and only you.
Here are the "Rules" that you have mostly ignored. (Posting later) AND PLEASE
do us all a favor and READ either Div Busting or Div Remedy (the second version of the book) so you are doing this right.
Too much confusion on your end is not going to convince her that you can change.
She will return to the marriage IF and WHEN SHE believes
marriage to you can be better/different than before.
From your words here, you do a lot of thinking and waiting...and NOT changing...
so why would She believe you are different now?
We played phone tag for 5 days and then Tuesday of this week she text asking a good time to call because we need to talk. I told her I would let her know. I haven't contacted her since. I felt I needed time to organize my thoughts and feelings.
If she wants to tell me about OM what is the point? She still wants divorce so is it to ease her mind and guilt and make it easier? She wants to talk to figure out if there is a chance or not AND OR to tell you herself what needs to be said.
Why not look at every interaction as an opportunity to show change in YOU?
If I don't call she eventually will. I work and that keeps me busy, reading self help and marriage books and this forum, hobbies, and getting out some. It's getting a little easier. If it was to get to reconcilation them I would understand more.
I don't know what ^^ this means But you need to read the book that forms this site's foundation or you are wasting a lot of folks time.
My goal is to save our marriage. If she needs this time and face her decisions, faults, and all then ok. I believe we can work through all our issues. Her wanting to or seeing that is another story. I haven't begged or pleaded. I know I am not all at fault here.
Focus on YOUR flaws only. She does not need to hear your version of HER flaws or your score card about how much you are responsible and how much she is. SHE WANTS OUT OF THE MARRIAGE and you say you want to save it.
so now is Not the time for you to start keeping score. Drop that. Just own YOUR FLAWS and model what a changing person looks like.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
These are "Rules" for newcomers assembled/organized & consisting of principles based on MWD's Div Busting approach. I think Sandi organized them first and they are SLIGHTLY edited or added to, by yours truly.
I recommend you copy and paste & print it out. Carry it in your pocket if you have to. I know I did.
FOR WHEN YOU GET "THE BOMB"….
1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then, don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject. 6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better. 10. Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.) In short, No Snooping.
11. Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12. Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne/perfume, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice. 14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15. When at home with your spouse, do 180s… (so if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her to initiate), then be rather scarce or minimal with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short & simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! (No matter what time he/she comes home.) You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy YOUR life and time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life too. 17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it. The supposed changes will look like "tactics" to get them back & then they won't believe the changes are lasting.
19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive & fun to be with. (As hard as this is, remember that angry, sad, pouting people do NOT ATTRACT others to them). The FUN somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while) so this takes patience on your behalf.
21. Never lose your cool! Never lose your temper! (That reinforces their choice to leave). Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22. Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill or be over the top in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23. Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24. Be patient……VERY, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do NOT interrupt them when they are speaking, OR correct them, and stop what you may be working on or doing, to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying. (Listening better never hurts.) 26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out (or scream and yell). Silence can be the loving thing to "not say."
27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Calmness is soothing to the calm person AND their "audience". Read self help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only, NOT your spouse. The more you tell them what you are doing (or trying to show them) the more your actions will seem manipulative & insincere. 29. Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write or a single dramatic gesture. (Not saying not to do/say those too, but focus on consistent changes, over time. That earns the spouse's belief in the changes).
30. Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever, & even when you truly feel desperate & needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse. Very important that you get this concept.
31. When you communicate with your spouse, do not focus on yourself; instead, focus on them. If in person, make eye contact.
32. Do not believe any of what THEY SAY and less than 50% of what THEY DO. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because he/she is hurting and scared, AND OR, b/c they want to justify their leaving.
33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34. Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes! Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35. Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day, unless absolutely necessary. (That means only in urgent matters.)
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes. 38. Do Not convince yourself that being miserable or sad shows how much you care for your spouse. It's not attractive or appealing, period.
39. If there is OW/OM in the picture, don't focus on them. BE the better choice, which means being a spouse only a fool would leave.
40. Know that you really will be alright in the long run, that your personal work will yield good things regardless of the choices others make. You will be happy again.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
She wanted to honest and not hurt me anymore. She told me she just started seeing someone else. They've only talked and email. And he doesn't even live in the same state.
She loves me. She doesn't want to hurt me. She doesn't think we can be married anymore. Still wants divorce. She doesn't want me to hate her and she doesn't hate me. She still wants to talk and be there for each other.
We talked about our years and time together and before we were together when we saw each other. And the drive I took in the middle of the night to see each other after 13 years. How we shouldn't be in the spot but we are.
She cried as she told me to kiss our cats and dogs. She loves me.
She thinks she was getting cabin fever out here and felt she lost herself and I did too. She was hurting me and I was hurting her. She is planning to go to school and get a job with a friend. Since she hasn't been an adult or supported herself in so long.
She loves me. Call anytime. She would like to call too.
She wanted to honest and not hurt me anymore. She told me she just started seeing someone else. They've only talked and email. And he doesn't even live in the same state.
She loves me. She doesn't want to hurt me. She doesn't think we can be married anymore. Still wants divorce. She doesn't want me to hate her and she doesn't hate me. She still wants to talk and be there for each other.
We talked about our years and time together and before we were together when we saw each other. And the drive I took in the middle of the night to see each other after 13 years. How we shouldn't be in the spot but we are.
She cried as she told me to kiss our cats and dogs. She loves me.
She thinks she was getting cabin fever out here and felt she lost herself and I did too. She was hurting me and I was hurting her. She is planning to go to school and get a job with a friend. Since she hasn't been an adult or supported herself in so long.
She loves me. Call anytime. She would like to call too.
