So last night wife was in a bitter mood. Then she announced she is travelling to see OM tomorrow, which is today. So that lasted around two and half weeks.
Here are my thoughts....
I CAN go on on a vacation without feeling negative emotions. I think we would have a great time.
My coldness towards her was not really to protect me, it was the feeling that I SHOULD but doing that. Mostly due to folks on here telling me I need to stand up for myself ..
SM your wife has been seeing OM with no consequences.....
Me being cold is my consequence to her. Is this a bad idea? It is not how I am, and has actually required some thinking in order to pull it off.
Interestingly enough, it seems the women on here are the ones that egg me on to take the toughest actions including asking her to move out.
So, lets start over. Here are my questions: 1) should I be her friend? Women don't feel attracted to friends, atleast thats what they say. Although plenty of affairs start as friendships. 2) Vacation, good idea or bad? Cake eating?
If anyone has advice for me I would love to hear it. I think I'm confused as to my strategy. Warm, or cold?
Thanks everyone. I await your input.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Again, from my experiences I would say no vacation and don't be hot or cold- be neutral.
My wife and I went on a great anniversary weekend two months ago. We had an amazing time, connected like we hadn't in months, plenty of affection (including sex a few times) and I love yous.
One week after we returned, she was back to wanting a separation/divorce. Trust the process and enforce your boundary- as painful as it may be.
As far as being her friend: are you capable of being just a friend right now? Without hopes/expectations of something more? I know I was not and am still not.
Me:38 W:39 No Children BD: 5/13 EA/PA Confirmed: 7/13 W Moved out 12/13
I think you should take your daughter on a nice short vacation the next time you learn W is traveling to visit om. It's probably too late to go today, but definitely next time. Leave W in your dust as you go do something fun.
I can't believe you're accepting an open marriage in an attempt to somehow end up the last guy standing in your wife's threesome. I don't think that policy is working for you.
I agree that forcing a cold act as a consequence for her is neither sincere nor effective. It's like saying, if you cheat on me I'll get real mad, and if you continue cheating on me, I'll, I'll....ok I'll get real real mad, and if that doesn't work, well, I'll get more mad. She does not care; you can get as mad as you want; she knows you are not going to do anything at all.
How much gas money did you provide for her to go see OM this time?
DBing is not about being a complete pushover, SM, you've got to put a stop to this at some point or you will have been for years in an open marriage, with no attempt to change that other than "acting cold" sometimes and taking her on nice vacations. There are some guys here who have given you advice on how to express boundaries, and you might change your sitch if you start acting different.
Adinva 51, S20, S18 M24 total 6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out 9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50 5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend __ Happiness is a warm puppy.
Dingo and Adinva thank you very much for your input.
Dingo, that is interesting that your wife was participating in intimacy etc and still wanting a divorce. In my case, my wife is the type that can only be intimate with one person and so we've not been intimate this whole time since BD. I believe if she was to allow herself to ML to me, it would be a big turn around. One of our main issues was actually SSM with her being hyper sexual the last few months before BD. She has low self esteem and was gauging her desirability by how much sex I wanted, and unfortunately my stress level with my business and our difficult D3 made me reject her too often.
Adinva, what do you suggest? I think you missed the part where I said she has a job now. She actually got a good job working from home for $20 a hour! She has gotten paid a few small checks but the big ones are setup for once a month starting from Dec 14th.
So, although the exact source of the dollars that are in her gas tank right now are mine, there is a lot of money waiting to be deposited into our account once a month from now on.
She has volunteered to put the money in our joint account even though I suggest she have it deposited into her old personal account from before we got married.
She wants to pay the entire mortgage for our house, and the majority of the bills. I think this is good because some of my readings over the last few months suggest that part of the issue we had was that she didnt have any "skin in the game" as far as our family. Her investment is low and so its easier to walk away than it is for me. This new income being put into our bills will hopefully play into that.
Also, she said once "I'm going to be making all this money for the first time in my life and I wont have any to spend on anything I want because of bills". I just smiled and then she said "Yeah Yeah, I know, welcome to YOUR world". I had told her many times when she complained about lack of disposable income that at least she gets to do her hair, nails, buy makeup, go have lunch with friends while I'm at work, has a nicer car than me etc.. I have always made sacrifices.
The open marriage thing is tough. I'm not sure its a marriage anymore at this point, but I know what you are saying. My daughter starts her new school on Monday and its a county program for children who have learning delays. Hopefully they can help us get daughter to a position where she is manageable! Right now, it would drive someone insane to take care of her on your own. We pretty much take it in turns to keep her entertained so that works out in our "separation".
Speech therapist and social worker advised me NOT to do anything that would change D3 life too much right now. At least until she settles into the new program, although they recommended not until she is caught up with Pre K requirements that she needs to meet by next August. Tough spot.
It is interesting to note, again, that its the women who are giving the toughest advice. Accuray and MrBond where investigating options for positive interactions with her, but the women always bring up the same points...SM I cant believe you are OK with this, SM when are you going to stand up for yourself, SM when are you going to put an end to this open marriage....
The truth is, I feel very cornered in my life. I need my wife's input with the bills right now if I want to provide a decent life for my daughter. I need my wifes help with D3 because she is somewhat out of control and has tantrums (Sensory Processing Disorder). Also, disrupting the life of D3 by having her go back and forth between two homes (not sure where Wife would go) would be detrimental to her emotional well being in her current state.
So what do I do, WITHIN MY CURRENT SETUP? I cannot, with a clear conscience, blow up my wifes life because of the above reasons.
And that is why I have chosen to be withdrawn and emotionally not available. It is the closest I can get to being physically separated in order to show W that she cant have me too. And it seems to work in that she starts to call and message and plan things for us to do. But then some folks (mostly the women) then advise me not to do anything with her, and I get the "SM I cannot believe...(insert pathetic behavior) LOL.
I Cannot believe it either! I cannot believe I am in this situation! I cannot believe MY wife wants to LEAVE ME!
But it is what it is, and I must deal with is as best I can.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
The open marriage thing is tough. I'm not sure its a marriage anymore at this point, but I know what you are saying. My daughter starts her new school on Monday and its a county program for children who have learning delays. Hopefully they can help us get daughter to a position where she is manageable! Right now, it would drive someone insane to take care of her on your own. We pretty much take it in turns to keep her entertained so that works out in our "separation".
Speech therapist and social worker advised me NOT to do anything that would change D3 life too much right now. At least until she settles into the new program, although they recommended not until she is caught up with Pre K requirements that she needs to meet by next August. Tough spot.
It is interesting to note, again, that its the women who are giving the toughest advice. Accuray and MrBond where investigating options for positive interactions with her, but the women always bring up the same points...SM I cant believe you are OK with this, SM when are you going to stand up for yourself, SM when are you going to put an end to this open marriage....
The truth is, I feel very cornered in my life. I need my wife's input with the bills right now if I want to provide a decent life for my daughter. I need my wifes help with D3 because she is somewhat out of control and has tantrums (Sensory Processing Disorder). Also, disrupting the life of D3 by having her go back and forth between two homes (not sure where Wife would go) would be detrimental to her emotional well being in her current state.
So what do I do, WITHIN MY CURRENT SETUP? I cannot, with a clear conscience, blow up my wifes life because of the above reasons.
And that is why I have chosen to be withdrawn and emotionally not available. It is the closest I can get to being physically separated in order to show W that she cant have me too. And it seems to work in that she starts to call and message and plan things for us to do. But then some folks (mostly the women) then advise me not to do anything with her, and I get the "SM I cannot believe...(insert pathetic behavior) LOL.
I Cannot believe it either! I cannot believe I am in this situation! I cannot believe MY wife wants to LEAVE ME!
But it is what it is, and I must deal with is as best I can.
Well i'll join the women, you do know that you've just about emasculated yourself more than she EVER could. What you allow will be permitted. It's not a healthy enviroment for a child to be subject to. There aren't any awards for taking abuse!
INTERESTING STORY _____________________________________________________
Went out last weekend with an old friend. He is also facing a separation and his wife wants out. Anyway, he had invited a friend of his, a lady friend.
I got into a conversation with this lady friend that was very interesting. She is a 44 year old who has been living in an in house separation for 10 years! She has three kids with her husband and for ten years they have lived together but separately.
Of course I told her there is no way I would last ten years and already I'm surprised I've lasted this long. But lets skip to the important part....
She asked me about what my wife does and how she talks to me, and whether she still does things around the house etc.... Then she said something interesting...
She said, "I have lived with my husband for 10 years because I still love him and still care about him, AND STILL WOULD LIKE OUR MARRIAGE TO WORK. But he hasnt been listening to me. He hasnt tried to really HEAR what my complaints are. He just doesnt get it. Every so often I check to see if he has gotten it, so that we can start over, but then i find he hasnt. Your wife is telling you she cares but that something is not right. Listen to her. Really listen to her. She is telling you again and again what is wrong. If she wanted out she would be long gone like people do when they cant stand their spouse anymore."
I told her my wife really hadnt said anything more as far as her complaints since the day of BD. So she said....
"No, she has. She is saying it all the time. She is checking to see if the marriage can work, all the time. She is waiting to see if you will get it, if you can really understand her".
I spent the rest of the night dumbfounded. I mean this lady is not an expert like some of you here on the boards. But I was sitting with a real life woman who left her husband emotionally but not really physically....and she was telling me she STILL looks over her shoulder every so often to see if things could be better.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
SM, I think that might be the most humble post I've read from you. I believe you'll find more are willing to help when you are truly trying to look at SM and what you have to do. For a very long time you tried to blame all of this bad stuff on some condition she may have, the difference in your families, society, etc. I see it as pretty much normal with LBS's, as they try to rationalize why this has happened to them. But now you seem to sound as if you are ready to let all of that go, and start dealing with the stitch you find yourself in.
The truth is we all may have a little different opinion or view point on some of the questions you've asked. The men may see it different from the women. The WAS may see it different than the LBS. And remember that everyone's stitch is individual...so reading other threads, or even all the advice on your own thread, could sound contradicting and confusing.
I've been around a while now and I'm still reading some old advice that was being passed around when I first came. However, I had not read it in MWD's book. Which doesn't mean it would or wouldn't work with some people. I'm just saying don't look at it as a "rule". After all, I give advice that certainly isn't in her books either!
I say all of that just to let you know I actually sympathize with others who feel confused about what they should do. I will also tell you that I have given a little different advice to people (based on their stitch), so you have to decide if you could do what you read, if it goes against your standards of belief, etc. That is why people continue to tell you to decide what "you" want. You read the given advice and then you decide what you are willing to do, what you can or can't live with, and if you are capable of carrying through.
For what it's worth here, my H's "consequences" for me was him acting cold to me. Do you want to know how well it worked? It didn't. He came off looking like a jerk and it just made me react worse.
I don't think that is what people mean when they tell you to stand up for yourself. Maybe you could google that term of expression and see if you get a better description. I know I am not one who gets my point across well at times, and I use a lot of idioms.
Wow, I just checked back and saw where more have posted while I've been on this one.....so I better go read.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Hmmm, I think that lady might have been projecting her thoughts onto your W. I would not count on that being the case. It's more likely she's in an affair with OM and that's consuming the majority of her attention right now.
So you have a few options here I think you should evaluate:
1) You can move out and pursue a D
2) You can ask W to move out and pursue a D
3) You can make "an arrangement" to co-habitate where you *both* see other people with or without a D. This isn't really an open marriage because the two of you are no longer intimate.
4) You can just continue to tolerate your situation as it is, with your W having sex with someone else but also spending some time with you.
Of those four options, to me the fourth one is the LEAST desirable.
Given your situation with your daughter, your most practical near-term option may be #3, where you just completely drop the rope and start living as if you were single. I wouldn't do this for "revenge" or to get a rise out of W, or any other motive having to do with W. I would make your choices as if W wasn't on the radar screen at all. You can either date or not date, but W has nothing to do with it.
If nothing else, this will return some balance to the relationship. Her behavior of living with you 4 days and then going off to have sex with someone else three days per week while you sit home with your daughter really is not acceptable at all in my opinion, I would not be in favor of keeping yourself in that position.
WRT the therapist's advice regarding your daughter, that is one bit of input. W is having an affair, it is not your responsibility to circle around balancing everything else out. You may need to make your daughter's situation worse temporarily to protect yourself and get your own life back.
If W doesn't like that, she can stop seeing OM. This isn't all your problem to solve.
Acc
Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11 Start Reconcile: 8/15/11 Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced) In a New Relationship: 3/2015
