Love is a Choice

[JFun51]

How do you see it as unique? Or different? I've done both, but I'm curious what you think about it?


AJ

I think that having to see her actions in my face every day is tough. There are some days I think I could work on me a lot better if it were just me and the boys. Giving her space us more difficult because, as FY stated, we still run the house and the family stuff together.

Example: Went to S12 bball game tonight and sat with W for most of the game. She was texting away at one point to OM (confirmed, not assumed) and was so engrossed that she missed S12 in the game for almost 2 minutes of game time. Completely oblivious. Continued after the game when we went to eat with group of friends. I'm talking and listening to a friend across the table and W is completely detached from the entire table of convo because she has her cell in her lap wearing it out. I wasn't the only one to notice. She had to be called mtiple times to attention in conversation. I asked her 3 times how the green beans were and she hasn't heard me yet.

I have to see how she dresses for others every day. I have to wash the sexy undies that she would refuse to wear for years.

I have to walk around my own house with a ticking time bomb that could go off for no apparent reason at any given time.

If we weren't under the same rough, I understand the challenges are different. I wouldn't be comfortable thinking about her sleeping anywhere else. I would worry about her safety constantly. I would have 2 boys that would be even more strained than they are now.

[JFun51]

I had wanted to talk to you about you telling her you love her. I know you wanted her to hear those words. I think soon after you saw some stuff from her. She knows you love her. But when you tell her that, she feels unheard. She is thinking, I dont want to be married to him, why is he telling me that?

You are doing great. Keep going.

I realize that now. It was a moment of weakness. Experiment and take notes, right? Needless to say, I'll be keeping those feelings to myself from this point forward. I think my presence her in this house speaks for itself.

[Takevowsserious]

Ummm, yeah... What they said ^^^^^

After all FY, I think T2 and UR helped us both when we were in the LBS nursery

A few things I wanted to add, having had my H home so far ~

While we always say that each sitch is different, something that seems to be the same is the MLCer's need for space.

My H flat out told me - I want to be by myself, I want to be left alone. I've tried my best to accommodate him while still living together. He has - a few times during the crisis - thanked me for this.

If your wife wants to talk to you/be around you, she'll seek you out. If left alone, this gives her an opportunity to do this.

I understand where you're coming from with detaching/sharing family responsibilities. It can be difficult to balance.

Our boys were 1 1/2 and 3 1/2 when I got the bomb. H had been quite angry in the months preceding it, and had distanced himself from me and the boys.

One of the things he vocalized to me that he was upset about was that he felt that the boys liked me better, and that I thought he was a bad dad.

He once yelled at me, "I'm tired of playing second fiddle to you! I just want to be loved!"

So while I did not invite him to do things with me, I did invite him to do things as a family - keeping in mind - he may very well say no. (Which he usually did)

Once in awhile, he would join us. I did not ever want him to feel excluded. But, if he didn't want to join us, that was fine too. H spent months hardly being home, and I did a lot with the boys during that time. I feel strongly that kids shouldn't be denied living and having fun because a parent is in crisis. Life does go on without them.

Almost two years later, and H does have a R with the kids again. I am very thankful for that.

Aloof but available - a good mantra to have

[JFun51]

I have gotten "I'm tired of being the mean b!$tch all the time and you get to be happy playtime Daddy!" W has generally taken the lead in handling spats and arguments with S12 and S10. I acknowledge my contributions to that. I have been making a concerted effort to love them, provide structure, mediate disputes, and discipline the boys. She actually told me "Thank you" a while back when I intervened. That's when I thought we were actually working on things. She has completely retreated from any compliments or acknowledgment at this point.

[JFun51]

New practice on my part has been to let her have her time in bed at night to text/message or whatever. She doesn't want me around, and I don't want to be around her then at all. I stay downstairs to watch TV, read, play a couple video games, talk to you guys. This is after getting chores done and tucking my boys into bed for the night. It is affecting my sleep pattern, though.

I am avoiding all conflict and basically all contact when we are at home. W continues to try to talk to me as if we are a couple when around everyone else. Its quite straining, as I feel myself living two different lives. I can't imagine what its like in her head if she's living at least 3 different lives.

Lots of rain and gloominess here over the last few days isn't helping anyone's mood. I haven't been able to get in a run for 4 days now. Svcks. I feel fat, lazy and dreary. Yuck.

[Pudmuddle]

My H used to text and text after I went upstairs to bed. Now he barely texts at all, even when I'm not in the room. Yes, I spy. I see for your W that it might be a sort of addiction, she gets a rush from texting people. That's not uncommon actually.

I understand about not being able to get out and run. It's been -12 here and you can't even breathe normally outside! Maybe you could do 100 situps or pushups. That can be done inside. I also found a Rec Center that has classes that I can pay as I go. That helps. Just some thoughts.

It is hard when you go to functions and they act like everything is normal. It does feel kind of fake, but their whole world is fake right now, so I can't imagine the stress on the brain on that one. My H even asked us to leave a function all together even though we drove separately. I remember thinking what? like we are together? It was a facade to make his family think otherwise. Sigh, it's tough stuff JF.

[Mach1]

How do you see it as unique? Or different? I've done both, but I'm curious what you think about it?


AJ

I think that having to see her actions in my face every day is tough. There are some days I think I could work on me a lot better if it were just me and the boys. Giving her space us more difficult because, as FY stated, we still run the house and the family stuff together.

Are you seeing them, or are you watching them ???

Just make sure that you aren't watching too closely.

Consistent actions over time is what you are striving for. And those actions should be matching the new you....


Watching her too closely, will burn your retinas...

Treat her like she is a room mate. Someone renting a room from you. How would you do that ?

You can be friendly, yet live for yourself. Be available if she needs, yet be unavailable...

Did you wash your college room mate's drawers ??

Would you ??

Maybe start a calender with the daily activities ???

Example: Went to S12 bball game tonight and sat with W for most of the game. She was texting away at one point to OM (confirmed, not assumed) and was so engrossed that she missed S12 in the game for almost 2 minutes of game time. Completely oblivious. Continued after the game when we went to eat with group of friends. I'm talking and listening to a friend across the table and W is completely detached from the entire table of convo because she has her cell in her lap wearing it out. I wasn't the only one to notice. She had to be called mtiple times to attention in conversation. I asked her 3 times how the green beans were and she hasn't heard me yet.

So stop asking her then...

Stop expecting her to be the same person that she WAS...

Did YOU like the Green Beans ???

I have to see how she dresses for others every day. I have to wash the sexy undies that she would refuse to wear for years.

I have to walk around my own house with a ticking time bomb that could go off for no apparent reason at any given time.

Again....stop if you don't want to do those things...

If you don't want see how she dresses ? Then start a different schedule , shake up your routine a bit...

If you don't wanna wash her drawers, then don't do it.

Have you always done the laundry ?

Or is this something that you have started doing since the bomb, because you felt guilty that you hadn't before the bomb ??

One interaction isn't going to make or break you..

Washing her skivvies will not snap her out of this...

So....

Just be YOU, and who you want to be.

Don't do those things with the expectation that she will change her mind if you do.

As you have read many times...

Expectations can kill YOU....

And not just the good ones...

Negative expectations can set your mood and interactions BEFORE you even have a chance to see things for what they really are....

If you go in expecting things to go bad, then 9 times out a 10....they will.

Be careful there...

Watching too closely will build those negative expectations...

If we weren't under the same rough, I understand the challenges are different. I wouldn't be comfortable thinking about her sleeping anywhere else. I would worry about her safety constantly. I would have 2 boys that would be even more strained than they are now.

Is a live in harder ???

No

Would her moving out be harder ???

No

Neither is harder, or easier...

They are just different,, for varying reasons...

If she did move out, you would still feel the same way, and you would still do the same things to see for yourself what you are seeing every day now...

You would just be in one of the "free candy" vans, driving up and down her street, trying to catch a glimpse of her, and hoping that you don't see a strange car in her driveway. Blocking your phone number doing the 2am hang ups, and checking up on her. Driving by her work to see if she is there....


Having a live-in doesn't mean that you have to be perfect all of the time. It doesn't mean becoming a slave to their actions, or spews. It also doesn't mean that you are not allowed to live too..

You do not have to be perfect in every situation. You are human, and you will have good times, and bad times..

You are already handling the good times better....

The trick is to be able to handle those bad times in a different way. Handle the chaos with a different view than you have always had.

And your razor's edge ??

IF...you "as if" yourself into being the 'perfect' person , then that will come across to her that you view yourself superior to her.

You have to be fallible too, just with the ability to overcome those things quietly, and without fanfare on your part.

Right now, she is pissed that you have changed, and you have become the person that she always envisioned herself being with.

And it's not the same kind of pissed like you took the last cookie either.

All of her anger is going to have to come out eventually, before you have any chance of just being cordial in co-parenting...let alone having a relationship...

And she is right...you DO need to be the bad guy with the boys occasionally. You are the guy that gets to teach them how to treat a Woman. You will be the voice in their head when they decide how to treat their girlfriends down the road.

For whatever reason, your spouse has chosen to stay in the home. That CAN either be a good thing, or a bad thing....

YOU get to make that choice....

So maybe try not watching her too closely...

Cause I can assure you, she has the capability to take you down with her...

Pretty sure you don't want that...


Any of this make sense ???

[LoisB]

Again....stop if you don't want to do those things...

If you don't want see how she dresses ? Then start a different schedule , shake up your routine a bit...

If you don't wanna wash her drawers, then don't do it.

Makes sense to me. Thanks Mach. Exactly what I needed to hear today.

Heather

[TSquared2]

Hi JF,

There has been a lot of discussion on the merits/disadvantages of the in-house vs. the out-of-house mlcer.

I have had an in-house one. The upside...I do get to show my changes. I do get "live" the new, improving me, right in front of her, in rather challenging circumstances. My feet are held to the fire, everyday. Practice makes perfect, right.

I also think that there is an advantage that should she change her mind and want to work on the marriage, there is not as a heavy "re-adjustment" period to co-habitating, since neither one would have gotten used to having total own space and freedom. But that is an untested theory on my part with no evidence.

And yes, her being here certain took off some of my own worry tenancies I would have most likely found myself in...though no "free candy van", I think

On the other hand...her being here has been hard because of the front row seat, her period of almost flaunting what she was doing, watching the roller coasters and train wrecks.

It's been hard because of it being "show time", all the time. Never a break, W through most of this was a SAHM. She has started working, so I get my "home alone with the boys time" and just "be". I am a perfectionist, so I felt the pressure to be perfect, and as Mach said, it's not necessary. But I didn't figure that out for quite a while. Still figuring that out. And figuring out how to make how I am consistent, whether she is home, or at work.

And the kids having that front row seat has been tough, but is it any tougher than her leaving? Idk.

I think each has advantages, and disadvantages. Neither is better, just different.

[JFun51]

Are you seeing them, or are you watching them ???

Just make sure that you aren't watching too closely.

Consistent actions over time is what you are striving for. And those actions should be matching the new you....


Watching her too closely, will burn your retinas...

No doubt. I see that I am still watching and looking to see what she is doing. I can tell myself that is doesn't matter and I will be fine either way, but I'm not there yet.

Did you wash your college room mate's drawers ??

Would you ??

If you don't wanna wash her drawers, then don't do it.

Have you always done the laundry ?

Or is this something that you have started doing since the bomb, because you felt guilty that you hadn't before the bomb ??

I've seriously considered just letting her clothes pile up while washing my clothes and the boys. I do not put hers or theirs away. I wash them, fold them, and leave them in their rooms. Amazingly, S12 and S10 put theirs up when I ask, but 39 years old W is content to leave hers piled up and laying around. She never refused to wash mine for 20 years. I have always helped with the laundry. I honestly thought that asking her to wash her own would come off as being a vindictive A-hole and create a major spew any way I tried to approach it. I have gracefully asked her for help and she has stepped in a couple of times.

I started washing clothes exclusively when she took a full 2 months off from life in general. When I needed something washed, I just did a load of laundry. That turned into the kids needing something and same deal.

So stop asking her then...

Stop expecting her to be the same person that she WAS...

Did YOU like the Green Beans ???

Got it. Still trying to act like she likes me. I didn't have the Green Beans, that's why I wanted to know. She had just asked me about my chicken pie and I was simply trying to reciprocate.

Expectations can kill YOU....

And not just the good ones...

Negative expectations can set your mood and interactions BEFORE you even have a chance to see things for what they really are....

If you go in expecting things to go bad, then 9 times out a 10....they will.

Be careful there...

Watching too closely will build those negative expectations...

I see this and feel this every day. I am getting better about not letting single actions of hers dictate how I feel. Just being around her so much during the Thanksgiving week created so much more face time. I am realizing that the holiday season is a testing time.

IF...you "as if" yourself into being the 'perfect' person , then that will come across to her that you view yourself superior to her.

You have to be fallible too, just with the ability to overcome those things quietly, and without fanfare on your part.

Right now, she is pissed that you have changed, and you have become the person that she always envisioned herself being with.

I am definitely seeing this. She has expressed this much. Glad that I'm "working on myself." "Don't want to hear about it." "Its a big F-ing show." This superiority thing is one of the weeds that I am digging at really hard. I know why its there and I'm working daily to kill it at its roots.

And she is right...you DO need to be the bad guy with the boys occasionally. You are the guy that gets to teach them how to treat a Woman. You will be the voice in their head when they decide how to treat their girlfriends down the road.

I have no problem being the disciplinarian with my boys. I deal with it every day as a teacher and coach. It is a part of my every day life. Tough love and guiding young men is my professional life. W has been such an in charge person for so long, that she has always handled most things. She's a type A personality that likes it all done her way. I have admitted to her that I have fed that part of her personality by standing back and letting her take charge.

So maybe try not watching her too closely...

Cause I can assure you, she has the capability to take you down with her...

Pretty sure you don't want that...


Any of this make sense ???

Lots of sense Mach. Detachment, detachment, detachment. Its the hardest and most important part of this entire process. I've known it sense the first time I read all the resources, but I'm still struggling. The fine line between detachment and abandonment is keeping me busy. Along with killing the weeds in my own garden of imperfection, this has been a tough road. You guys told me it wasn't for the faint of heart. I love the journey. I am working so hard every day to be right and make all the right decisions. Thank you for reminding me that I am human and that I will make mistakes along the way. Thanks also for reminding me that no single stumble will sink me.