Wife says she wants to leave

[melissag]

May I ask how you feel about the positive changes I made last night? I'm not trying to jump in and grab the reigns, but take small steps day by day.

I wasn't sure what to say about these, but since you asked, I'll take a crack at it.

Is asking your W for help with dinner a 180 for you? What about parenting your D? It sounds like you did a good job with her, and your W respected that, so sounds positive to me.

Not sure about asking W to fold the laundry, but I don't know what goes on in your house. I would NEVER ask my H to fold laundry here, since it's all my laundry and the kids' laundry. And the whole reason he moved out is to get away from this kind of stuff. But if it was your W's laundry too, I could see that being OK. What would you have done in the past? Did you do all the laundry yourself and then quietly build resentment about it?

I think it was good that you said no to picking D up, when it is W's job to do so. I hope that you at least told her you couldn't, rather than that you won't. There is that fine line of standing up for yourself/not rescuing her and being rude/punishing her.

I think that what's more important than my feedback is your W's feedback. Are you keeping a journal of what's working? You are making small changes . . . watch and see how she responds. If it seems she is responding in a positive manner, keep them up. Neutral or negative, pull back.

[3boymom]

I agree with Melissa that it is going to be a fine line on being confident/taking charge and appearing like you are trying to control your W. When I read your description of the events last night, it almost seemed like you treated your W like your D. You gave them both tasks to complete. But again, I dont know what goes on in your house. My recommendation would be that you take charge with respect to yourself and your D. I would be nice to your W and even chat with her so she does not feel excluded, but dont assign her tasks (getting drinks/folding the laundry). If you really need help, then I would ask nicely. I feel like most WAS do not like being controlled at all. I think that you did a great job with your D. My guess is that if you and your D are getting stuff ready, your W will volunteer to help.

[labug]

Cc, this is where you have to decide what kind of man/husband/father you want to be and what kind of marriage you desire.

If what you're working feels good to you and works for W and D then it's probably good.

I would be leery of judging the reasons your W doesn't pick up D. I'm not saying don't tell her no (and this is a fineline distinction) but do it because it's what you need, not based on what she's doing or not doing.

Does that make sense? This is how you begin to build personal boundaries, something most of us here are realllly bad at doing. The only boundaries we've ever used were when we were really resentful and lashed out or got P/A.

Make this about you, that's why I say so often "keep the focus on you"-don't play the victim and become resentful due to your W's actions, decide what's right for you and follow through on setting boundaries. Believe it or not it will improve Rs in the long run because people know what to expect from you.

[labug]

not working, doing (2nd sentence)

[Accuray]

However, her girlfriend came over and stayed the night. I guess my problem with this is, when she said she wanted a separation, she said that she needed time to herself. TIME TO HERSELF. I think she has maybe had one or two days that she has actually been alone. Does she really want time to herself, or was that her way of saying, time without you.

Yes, she was saying she wanted time without you, or probably more specifically time with OM without feeling guilty or having to hide.

Should I mention anything? Like, "You haven't really spent much time to yourself since the separation"???

That is putting the focus on her, and coming from the perspective that she owes you something. You are saying that she made you a promise that she was going to spend time alone and now she needs to deliver on it.

The thing with a WAS is that you have to change your mindset in two ways (1) they don't owe you ANYTHING, and (2) your life is your focus, not their life.

Therefore, focus on celebrating the good life you're having, not commenting on the life she is having. You want her to see how good your life is and want to be part of it, not begrudgingly accept you into her life.

I have always seeked her out before I go to work. I tell her goodbye and have a nice day and used to end with a kiss and a hug. Do I even do this anymore? Should I just leave for work and not say anything? She never seeks me out.

This is all about nuance and reading the situation. People will give you general guidance but in the spirit of DB, you have to "do what works". For example if you seek her out to say goodbye and then stand around with puppy dog eyes waiting for her to do or say something positive, you're better off just leaving instead. If you do a fly-by with a big smile on your face and say "I'm off to work! Have a great day, I know I will" and then head out the door with a spring in your step, that would probably be a positive.

That said, if she's clearly trying to avoid you, then I would NOT do this, because you're imposing your presence on her when she's not receptive to you. You have to read the pulse and adjust your actions accordingly.

The other perspective is that if you go say goodbye to her and she gives you a sour-puss expression or ignores you, and that bothers you and has you ruminating about it all day, then you're not doing a good job of protecting yourself, and you should avoid her until she doesn't influence your moods like that.

Unfortunately this is not an easy answer.

Same thing at bed time. Do i go downstairs and tell her goodnight? Or do I just go to sleep?

Generally you don't want to be the one always initiating contact. You want to give her space to come to you. If you give her space, it makes you safe to approach.

A WAS will often feel that you are like a big pent-up dam of emotion, and anything positive that they show you will "release the river" and swamp them, that's why they are very careful to be cold and not show you anything.

If you can let them be positive and NOT come rushing in in response, you make it safe for them to be nice to you again, or a little nicer to you overall, and you can start to establish a more positive pattern of interaction.

Hope that makes sense.

May I ask how you feel about the positive changes I made last night? I'm not trying to jump in and grab the reigns, but take small steps day by day.

That was all great stuff! Keep it up.

Acc

[Accuray]

One other thing, with regard to kissing her and hugging her, I might suggest laying off on that.

Think back to a time in your life when you broke up with a girlfriend and started seeing someone new. If your old girlfriend rushed up to you and kissed you or hugged you, how did that feel?

You do NOT want to inspire that feeling in W.

If you can kiss her or hug her with confidence and swagger, or in a playful manner, you can probably get away with it. If you do it in a manner that is loaded with emotional longing, stay away.

Acc

[ccZ28]

I guess I should have added some context!

For the past few months I have been doing EVERYTHING. And I mean EVERYTHING. I wanted to do everything I could to make her happy.

I think that it really made me look weak in her eyes. I have since backed off. I still do things without being asked, and do my fair share.

Also, W asked if there was anything she could do. These were the things that I asked her to help with. (after she offered)

I think it was good that you said no to picking D up, when it is W's job to do so. I hope that you at least told her you couldn't, rather than that you won't. There is that fine line of standing up for yourself/not rescuing her and being rude/punishing her.

I felt like i needed to say no. I understand that things come up, and I should not have a problem picking up D. However, When it becomes an every day, last minute occurance I am obviously being used. As if she would plan these activities, or use these excuses just because it was easier for me to pick her up.

There are other situations like this, that I will eventually have to start saying no to.

My plan is to get through the holidays, and then start standing up for myself more and more. Start implementing more boundaries.

[labug]

I'm going to comment on a few things and it's not to pick on your but to give you another perspective. I think you're really trying to figure this out and are very receptive, so take this as it's meant. Another POV.

For the past few months I have been doing EVERYTHING. And I mean EVERYTHING. I wanted to do everything I could to make her happy.

You say you wanted to do those things so watch out if resentment is cropping up. You did those things because you WANTED to, it didn't work.

But it becomes apparent that doing things for others doesn't always work in the way we want it too. We also don't really know what the other person wants unless they tell us.
Have you heard about the 5LL book? Love languages is an important concept.

I think that it really made me look weak in her eyes.

Did she tell you that? Otherwise you don't know how it made you look. Keep the focus on you, did it make you feel weak? Is doing all those things, all the time the kind of husband you want to be?

When it becomes an every day, last minute occurance I am obviously being used.

Again, watch the judging and mind-reading because it creates a very different story in your head that colors your interactions with W. You don't know why she's asking you to pick up D, if you can't or don't want to, say that but don't base it on your judgment about what W is doing. That's a victim response.

We all tend to be victims in the beginning, moving away from that quickly is so important.

You're asking a lot of good questions and making positive moves. Keep it up.

[ccZ28]

Accuray,

Thank you once again for the wise words. I can totally see your points. Especially about just saying a friendly goodbye with a spring in my step.

It makes a lot of sense.

I suppose I will try just a quick goodbye, and if her door is shut ( i usually knock) maybe I will just go on my merry way.

Same thing with bedtime, maybe I will lay low for a while and see if she comes to me. Friendly, yet distant.

labug,

Were you put here to torture me???!!!!!

Just kidding, I TRULY Appreciate your words. It's hard sometimes when you are stuck thinking about something in one way. Its nice to have that 2x4 to help wake you up and see the other side.

I think that it really made me look weak in her eyes.

Did she tell you that? Otherwise you don't know how it made you look. Keep the focus on you, did it make you feel weak? Is doing all those things, all the time the kind of husband you want to be?

No she did not directly say that taking care of the house made me look weak.

She has made other comments however.

1) I was making her feel bad because I was doing everything
2) It was nice having magic dresser drawars that always had clean clothes
3) She kept telling me to sit down and relax
4) calling me Mr. Clean

Unrelated to the cleaning:

1) She doesnt respect me
2) She told me that "begging doesnt become me"
3) I'm to easy

Words are words, However her actions clearly show her level of respect for me.

I have been reading the 5LL. Unfortunately my W LL is quality time. Which seems to be a rather impossible task these days

As much as i believe that I'm working on me, I can see how some of my actions and comments do show i'm worried about what she's thinking.

[dingo]

However, her girlfriend came over and stayed the night. I guess my problem with this is, when she said she wanted a separation, she said that she needed time to herself. TIME TO HERSELF. I think she has maybe had one or two days that she has actually been alone. Does she really want time to herself, or was that her way of saying, time without you.

Yes, she was saying she wanted time without you, or probably more specifically time with OM without feeling guilty or having to hide.

Should I mention anything? Like, "You haven't really spent much time to yourself since the separation"???

That is putting the focus on her, and coming from the perspective that she owes you something. You are saying that she made you a promise that she was going to spend time alone and now she needs to deliver on it.

The thing with a WAS is that you have to change your mindset in two ways (1) they don't owe you ANYTHING, and (2) your life is your focus, not their life.

Therefore, focus on celebrating the good life you're having, not commenting on the life she is having. You want her to see how good your life is and want to be part of it, not begrudgingly accept you into her life.

I have always seeked her out before I go to work. I tell her goodbye and have a nice day and used to end with a kiss and a hug. Do I even do this anymore? Should I just leave for work and not say anything? She never seeks me out.

This is all about nuance and reading the situation. People will give you general guidance but in the spirit of DB, you have to "do what works". For example if you seek her out to say goodbye and then stand around with puppy dog eyes waiting for her to do or say something positive, you're better off just leaving instead. If you do a fly-by with a big smile on your face and say "I'm off to work! Have a great day, I know I will" and then head out the door with a spring in your step, that would probably be a positive.

That said, if she's clearly trying to avoid you, then I would NOT do this, because you're imposing your presence on her when she's not receptive to you. You have to read the pulse and adjust your actions accordingly.

The other perspective is that if you go say goodbye to her and she gives you a sour-puss expression or ignores you, and that bothers you and has you ruminating about it all day, then you're not doing a good job of protecting yourself, and you should avoid her until she doesn't influence your moods like that.

Unfortunately this is not an easy answer.

Same thing at bed time. Do i go downstairs and tell her goodnight? Or do I just go to sleep?

Generally you don't want to be the one always initiating contact. You want to give her space to come to you. If you give her space, it makes you safe to approach.

A WAS will often feel that you are like a big pent-up dam of emotion, and anything positive that they show you will "release the river" and swamp them, that's why they are very careful to be cold and not show you anything.

If you can let them be positive and NOT come rushing in in response, you make it safe for them to be nice to you again, or a little nicer to you overall, and you can start to establish a more positive pattern of interaction.

Hope that makes sense.

May I ask how you feel about the positive changes I made last night? I'm not trying to jump in and grab the reigns, but take small steps day by day.

That was all great stuff! Keep it up.

Acc

This is a great post and information I wish I had 3-4 months ago. I did all of the things Accuracy warns against - rushing in when she leaned in, initiating contact constantly and asking her about how much time she spent with her friends when she said she needed space. It actually took me until yesterday morning and my discussion with her that "space to figure out us" really meant "space to see the OM without feeling constrained/controlled by you so I can figure out who I want to be with."

I wish I was able to do what Accuracy says below way earlier.

The thing with a WAS is that you have to change your mindset in two ways (1) they don't owe you ANYTHING, and (2) your life is your focus, not their life.

Therefore, focus on celebrating the good life you're having, not commenting on the life she is having. You want her to see how good your life is and want to be part of it, not begrudgingly accept you into her life.


I went through all of these interactions below as well. Most of the ones I viewed as positive, she accepted the kiss or said 'I love you back' she probably viewed as negative - as if it was pressure for her to do something she maybe did not want to do.

This is all about nuance and reading the situation. People will give you general guidance but in the spirit of DB, you have to "do what works". For example if you seek her out to say goodbye and then stand around with puppy dog eyes waiting for her to do or say something positive, you're better off just leaving instead. If you do a fly-by with a big smile on your face and say "I'm off to work! Have a great day, I know I will" and then head out the door with a spring in your step, that would probably be a positive.

That said, if she's clearly trying to avoid you, then I would NOT do this, because you're imposing your presence on her when she's not receptive to you. You have to read the pulse and adjust your actions accordingly.

The other perspective is that if you go say goodbye to her and she gives you a sour-puss expression or ignores you, and that bothers you and has you ruminating about it all day, then you're not doing a good job of protecting yourself, and you should avoid her until she doesn't influence your moods like that.