on the edge pt 2

[ccZ28]

Dingo. I find myself in a similair situation. In that I feel like i'm the only one respecting boundaries.

However, while technically "seperated" W still lives at home.

One boundary i'm struggling (internally) with attempting to implement is that, if she wants to be out all night, staying at other people's houses, then i will not be available to her.

(this is extremely hard for me, as i want to spend time with her, as you can imagine i'm sure)

But how do I voice this? Part of me wants to say... If you want to be out and staying the night, maybe you should just stay there and not come home.

(financially this isn't feasible. we can't afford two places.)

I need to set a boundary, but i need help figuring out a good consequence.

[dingo]

I had that same situation happen when our marriage was good. She would go out with friends and end up coming home 3-4 hours later than she said without letting me know. It used to drive me nuts because i always felt like it was common courtesy and respect to let me know. I never had a problem with her being out late if she kept me in the loop. We never figured out a solution to it and it was a pretty nagging problem.

She felt like if she was having fun, she should be able to stay out as long as she liked and 'lost track of time.'

I am pretty sure there was no A going on at this point. This was when we were still dating and during the first year of our marriage before stuff got really bad.

[ccZ28]

This was never a problem with us. We always let eachother know what time we would be home, and RARELY did we stay out all night. And if we did, it was a planned event.

But now, she just does whatever she wants. Doesn't even come home half of the time. Initially i would call or text and wonder what time she was coming home. IF she was coming home... Now i don't even bother. I act as if it doesn't bother me, when in reality I hate it more than anything.

[dingo]

Things are going downhill fast and furious today. I just got a call from her and she said the only thing she can do at this point is a separation with no rules/we see other people. If I can't agree to that, she wants to proceed with the divorce. She was all business, no emotion, no hesitating...

She said she doesn't need to do a separation where we don't see other people anymore. She wants to be able to see the OM and see where that relationship goes and put ours completely on hold. She also said to not look at this as a failure but to look at it as us doing the right thing for ourselves.

I don't want an open marriage. I don't feel comfortable dating someone else when I am married for the sake of all parties involved. I also don't like the precedent it sets for future issues that may arise in our marriage, should a miracle occur and we put it back together.

I imagine that this separation will be 2 weeks - a month or so before she decides to proceed with the divorce anyway. She seems completely far gone and out.

She is supposed to come over tonight to pack some more things. Do I just tell her that I won't stand for an open marriage? Do I tell her to proceed with the divorce?

[MrBond]

"I just got a call from her and she said the only thing she can do at this point is a separation with no rules/we see other people."

I would have laughed at her at that point.

" She also said to not look at this as a failure but to look at it as us doing the right thing for ourselves. "

Tell her that she will not control the way SHE WANTS you to feel and that you are entitled to your thoughts and feelings as much as she is. Tell her that you will not be second place to someone else and that she is free to do what she feels she has to do. Then end the conversation.

Don't be home when she comes to get her stuff. Go out somewhere and have a good time.

[Fartiltre]

Dingo,

Sorry about this development!

My advice is that you apply 48 hour at least before you decide anything, before you react and before you initiate any convo about this!
You need some time to think! If she start talking then simply say something like "I need to think about this"

Buy some time right now!

All the best!

F

[dingo]

Thanks for the advice guys. Unfortunately I have to be there because she doesn't have the key. I can let her in and then leave but last time I did that, she took some things that I wanted to talk about before they were gone.

At this point we both have been thinking about this for a long long time and we're both exhausted. I don't think we are reacting anymore and 48 hours isn't going to change either of our minds.

She's shown that she will do what she wants (which is see the OM) regardless of what the "rules" of the separation are. She has no character or integrity, at least with respect to me. I like your advice MrBond and I guess that's what I am going to go with.

[sandi2]

This may seem reactive and impulsive but I will not be plan B and don't want to put myself through a separation where I abide by the agreement and she doesn't.

I'm sure it is reactive, but also very understandable. It is very good that you decided not to be plan B. Good for your own self-respect. As for the difference of views on the S, I don't think she ever intended on not exploring what's out there, but I suppose you could say that's mind reading. Here's the thing, she was putting you on the back burner until she saw how things would go with OM. But you were seeing a separation as a time set apart to save the marriage. She would agree to what you wanted to hear her say, but the thrill of a new romance was more powerful for her.

Obviously I am having a very hard time with this. While I haven't cried, my wife has experienced me rationalizing, begging, coercing and forgiving her steps across our relationship boundaries. I feel like I have done a pretty poor job by doing all of that but she has always held the divorce card as her trump - knowing that I don't want that. Is she saying that she really wants me to give her a divorce? That seems to be the only thing I can do to stand up to her at this point.

No, I don't believe she is really saying she wants you to give her a divorce. If she had divorced you first....and then had a fling with OM, that would have been more respectful to you. But one thing that is very difficult for the LBS to understand is how the WAW wants to hang on to both worlds. She wanted to have part time with you and part time with OM. Whenever a woman tries to have more than one man at a time she will experience confused emotions if she has to pick which one she wants. It's crazy....and a lot of game playing.

I believe you can move forward, drop the rope, and go dark by ending contact with her, and live your own life. You don't tell what you intend doing, just act on it. You don't have to rush into a divorce. Right now you are in a lot of pain.....and you are reacting. However, you may have a change of heart once she has a change of heart.

I know its never too late until the papers are signed but how does she ever gain respect for me knowing that I know she is continuing to contact the OM and not kicking her ass out the door?

Do you see a divorce as symbolic of kicking her out the door? I can tell you want her to respect you. Think it over carefully. Are you still trying to get a reaction from her? Even if it is over, would you push the D to get her respect? It is important to be honest with yourself about your motivation behind your actions.

I am not using the divorce as a threat to get her to reconsider or come back. I am using it as a way to set her free from me and me free from her. No more boundaries either way, she can do what she likes and I can do what I like. Right now, I am the only one respecting the boundaries and it obviously doesn't give me as free a life as I would otherwise like.

It will set you free legally. Maybe in time it will free you up to be able to move on emotionally. But as you know, it won't stop the pain you feel now.

I was going to say a lot more, until I read you last post. My advice is that you not be home when she comes to pick up her things tonight. Stay away from her and do not accept any of her calls. Absolutely don't be available to her to talk about anything, until you have had more time to think through this and give your emotions more time to calm. And while you are doing that, get legal advice ASAP. Protect your finances ASAP! Get your money and open another account separate from the old one. Call your creditors and eliminate her name from your cards. Any other way you can protect yourself, do it now. It doesn't matter that she has a good job, protect yourself.

In short, I'm saying there are other things that are more important than telling her to proceed with a divorce right now. Those are just words. I dare say she probably expects you to say those very things tonight. But if there is the slightest chance you still want her, don't jump the gun here. Give it till the end of the month at least. She is not living under the same roof with you, so it is not urgent that you see how fast you can D her. It might make a difference, but at this point I don't believe it would...b/c she is going to try the single life with or without your approval. You have seen the signs for quite some time.

If you will REALLY go totally dark, I think it could have similar effects that a divorce would have on her. But you would have to distant yourself emotionally or it will eat you up. If you decide to take this route first, then we can give you support in how to do this. You could do it while you give yourself more time. It would be better than pushing for a quick D and then be sorry. Talk about wrong decision, for her to hear you tell her to proceed with D and then try to back out.

Just make certain that a divorce is for "you", and not as anything else. Don't pursue a D in order to get her respect... b/c frankly, I don't think it that's what would be accomplished. I can talk more tomorrow, or after I hear back from you.

[dingo]

I just now saw your post sandi. I had to meet her at the house to let her in so we did speak. I did not push the D but she does want to have her lawyer look over the settlement. I gave her my lawyers phone number and told her that I would not bbe plan b. This is for my respect as well as her respect for me.

I guess divorce really isn't symbolic of kicking her out the door as she's already walked out the door of her own accord. I guess it's symbolic of really allowing myself to be free of the situation and not feeling like I have to hold onto hope or expectations or otherwise act like a married man when I am not in a MR.

I told her that once her stuff was out that it would be best if we not talk at all. If there are legal things to discuss, we can talk through our attorneys. I do mean to go dark. For my own sanity as well as any for any chance we have left. I know it will not be easy and welcome any advice.

I have done what I need to protect my finances and legal affairs. I did that way back in July when all of this was first uncovered.

This morning when I confronted her I asked her if this is what she wanted, she told me exactly what you describe. "I want what I can never have. To not have to give you up but still see what can happen with the OM." That is part of the reason I think things are very dire right now. She has realized that she can't have both and seems to have reached a decision as to which she wants. It seems like it will take a miracle now to change her mind.

You are correct in each of our different approaches to the separation.I did expect time apart to work on ourselves and to decide on what we would do about the marriage. I also think you are correct in that she had never really considered not exploring things with the OM. She told me that sometimes she tells me that so as not to hurt my feelings. She is convinced that he is the right person for her and has said multiple times that she doesn't feel like she should not do something she wants to (see the OM).
I have been trying to imagine myself in her situation (feels oug of love and detached from her husband and feels she has a chance at happiness elsewhere) and I think it would be very difficult to not act the same.

Lastly, with respect to going dark, she did mention that she feels controlled by me even in her new apartment. Just because we talk all the time and ssee each other. She doesn't think I can hold to no contact for long so I guess that will be the first thing to 180 on.

[labug]

You really don't have to say anything other than you choose not to be in an open marriage.

What else is there to say? You stated your ultimatum, she moved out, she wants to see OM. She's pretty clear.

Let go.

So sorry you're in this position. Things will get better.