Hi cc - I actually read your thread after you posted on mine and have gotten a lot out of it. If I could recommend anything to you it would be to keep doing what you are doing no matter what. I have gone up and down with my wife for the last 4 months. You want to believe in them and that they see the same potential that you do but they won't right away and anything they do that seems to indicate otherwise is just an upswing on the roller coaster. In hindsight, I wish I had been able to do the things I am doing now back in July when everything came to light. I wish I had not been lulled into the belief that everything was better when things became good.
I also wanted to comment on your discussion about a possible PA. In my experience, the EA is the much bigger enemy (of course the combination of EA/PA is even worse). My wife admitted to an EA in early July and that it was actually a PA/EA a few weeks later. After the initial shock had worn off, the EA hurt me far worse (and has proven to be the tougher thing to break). Prior to her moving out earlier this week, my wife's time has been well accounted for and I believe that the PA has been on hold or gone since mid-September. However, due to her emotional attachment to the OM, she has not been able to maintain no contact and our MR continues to deteriorate. Its the promise of a new and better life - greener grass - that makes the EA so hard to break.
Me:38 W:39 No Children BD: 5/13 EA/PA Confirmed: 7/13 W Moved out 12/13
Accuray, you are right, it is humiliating. And at some point we all realize just how much we have humiliated ourselves in the quest for reconcilliation.
I believe the reason why th WAS tends to want the LBS when its too late is tied to this. When the LBS finally moves on emotionally, it is very clear to the WAS. There is no hiding it. And the humiliation stops, and the dignity comes back in full force.
And THEN the LBS is attractive.
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
I guess when you are in the moment, the things tha you do when you are trying to Reconcile with your spouse don't seem humiliating.
However, stepping back and looking at those same things with a clean perspective, i can certainly see how undignified I was.
Even looking back into our M and recognizing some of my more humiliating behaviors:
-Passive Agrressive (Mostly when W would not have sex) -Neglectful (Due to spending too much time on games) -Mean Spirited (Losing said games would put me in a bad mood) -Unwilling to comprimise (Holiday traditions, finances, etc) -Lazy (Was not doing my fair share around the house) -Letting myself go (Physical health had dropped. Gained 30 pounds)
Being able to recognize these behaviors has allowed me to start changing them.
- I now more fully understand why my W didn't want to have sex with me, she was not having her needs met. Instead of taking it personally, I now realize that both parties need their needs met, and physical touch is MY love langauge. I would say that hers is Quality Time / Words of Affirmation would be hers.
- I no longer feel the need to play my game. Before it was literally like a drug. I thought about it all the time. It took up way too much space in my head. I let it become more important than spending time with my W. I now know what is truly important, and will not take that for granted.
- Having not as much invested into said game, i no longer feel like it swings my emotions. I have realized that it is JUST A GAME.
- I feel like letting her do her own thing right now, is a comprimise in itself. I am totally willing to work on comprimising if and when she decides she wants to R.
- I no longer come home and just sit around. I take care of the house. I do the dishes, I do laundry, make sure the dog is walked and fed, clean the catbox, feed the cats. I am trying much harder to make my home more comfortable for all involved.
- I have Shed those 30 pounds. Joined a gym, and found some new friends to lift with. I feel like i'm honestly in the best shape of my life. Working on bulking up another 15 or so pounds (muscle) and then shedding some body fat. One downside is that it's making me feel much more anamilistic. After i work out I really want sex. (w is not currently available for that)
I also feel like this whole experience has made me a better listener, and made me more empathetic towards other people's situations.
Small Journal:
No relationship talks for a week. Negative atitude from W has really diminished.
Last night she dropped off D before leaving to go to her girlfriends. I just got done working out, so I was feeling pretty good. Had a big grin on my face, and as she walked out I smacked her on the rear. She actually giggled!
I sent her one text about half an hour later with a song lyric that we both like (a song from when we were at our prime, with sexual undertones)
She replied with !!! (which is better than the usual... OMG STOP)
We have my work christmas party coming up on Saturday Night. W agreed to go, and even bought a new dress for the occasion. We are going to go out dancing and drinking afterwards (My W loves dancing).
We also booked a hotel so that we wouldn't have to worry about driving home.
Not sure how this is all going to go down, I guess i'll wait and just let things happen.
Humiliation is all in our minds. It's not about who we are. Humiliation was a big driver for me all my life, or the fear of being humiliated. Once I figured out what a waste of time that was, and how much life I was missing, I worked hard at getting beyond it. It's made my life more peaceful.
Your list is great. Self-awareness is key and you've made some great changes.
Letting her do her own thing is good and should be a part of any marriage but that doesn't include dating OM unless you're OK with that and won't harbor resentment. What is your plan?
People don't often come here at this point in their troubles. Usually the EA/PA is in full swing and the poster has either decided they want to R or they decide the A is a deal-breaker.
Go slow with your W, she's still not fully in this M.
And a reminder, a night of dancing, drinking and sex won't mend a M. It would be great if that was all it took but sadly, no.
Enjoy yourself but have no expectations.
Me 57/H 58 M36 S 2.5yrs R 12/13
Let me give up the need to know why things happen as they do. I will never know and constant wondering is constant suffering. Caroline Myss
cc, great list of your undesirable behaviors and your 180s. And it sounds like you are doing really well keeping up a PMA! Hope your night out goes well. I agree with labug that one night won't fix everything, but any positive interaction is a plus, right? So make sure you don't drop the DBing just because she is acting married again.
me: 44 XH: 42 M 11 years D10 and S8 Bomb drop 9/27/13 D final 7/1/14
I truly do understand that one night won't fix everything. But if i can give one positive interaction, it may lead to another positive interaction, and so on.
One really big 180 for me is going to be the hotel. Their was kind of an unspoken rule for me that if we stayed in a hotel, there would be sex.
This time if it happens, great. If not I will certianly not make a big deal about it. I will not beg, I will not plead, I will not be passive aggressive.
I will gauge how the night is going, and if it seems to be moving towards sex, I will go for it. If she says no, I will act like I'm the coolest person in the world and she's missing out.
If there were any special events, I had to make it happen by planning and carrying through. He would be there to enjoy it, but it would have been really nice if he had surprised me with a weekend trip......or just going to the movies. Some women don't want to take control, but feel they have to, b/c the H won't take charge. I wasn't looking for a boss or a parent, I wanted a leader for my family. I believe in partnership in a M, but I also believe the man should be the primary protector and leader.
A woman has to respect her H as a man before she can feel sexual attraction to him. If he will let her show disrespect for him by the way she speaks and her attitude toward him (especially in front of their kids and other people), then she will begin to feel contempt and she will get mean. She keeps pushing his boundaries b/c she keeps hoping he will find the guts to stand up to her. I don't even know that every woman is aware she is "testing" her H at that time, but I believe every woman's behavior will ultimately get worse toward a H who becomes a door mat. Being passive does not keep the peace in a MR. It destroys passion and eventually it will destroy her love for him b/c she has no respect for him.
So, crying, begging, pleading, etc., from a LBH only makes the disrespect from a WAW worse. That is why many seem cold as ice.
I find it very sad to read where several men say they are afraid to stand up to the W. If a man cowers in the face of his W, he need not expect her to admire & desire him.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Sandi, THAT was an awesome post. Words to live by. I began examining the respect factor based on your recommendation when I first joined the forum. And you were absolutely right, I had let my wife be the leader and she has lost complete respect for me....and with it went attraction.
On the day of BD, I cried like a baby and begged her not to leave me. And she kept saying 'stop, you are making it worse'. At that time she was still saying she was confused and now in hindsight I see it was the begging and crying that made her move to very sure.
Every husband should take charge, keep things exciting, plan stuff, fill life with surprises.
Solid advice sandi
Me, H-34 now 38 W-32 now 35 T-13 now 18 years M-6 now 9 Daughter 3 years now 7 Bomb 11/27/12 - OM 1 year in house separation Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
!!! (which is better than the usual... OMG STOP)