Look what the cat dragged in! (TL)

[tigerlily78]

Pud,

I know he has already walked back a lot of what he initially said about the OW. I actually hope I CAN trust things he said recently, because they seem to be pointing towards a slow realization that he WAS delusional in the beginning.

Well, son asked if he could call again tonight. I allowed it. H didn't listen to the VM again, just called back 30 minutes later. Son picked up the phone, but H asked to talk to me. Apparently he doesn't understand this concept where your child just calls to say hello and that they miss you. :P

I tell him, why didn't you just talk to son, he is the one who called you. He wanted to tell you goodnight and that he missed you today. H says he wanted to talk to me to make sure there wasn't an emergency. Well, no emergency I say. Son just was thinking of you this evening, he played that game by himself, but I think he would have rather played with you tonight. It reminded him you aren't around. H says "that's funny because the other night he wanted to quit playing and go help you with dinner when I still wanted to play." I tell him I don't know about any of that, I can only say what I think is the case. He could talk to son to get more info. H says he doesn't need to right now, he will see him tomorrow. I remind him son has Scouts tomorrow and you will probably be skating, so if he sees you it won't be for long. H says he doesn't think he will skate tomorrow, so he will see him until scout time. Tell son goodnight and that he loves him.

Ugh. Now I am getting the impression he thinks I put son up to calling. I should maybe go back to telling son it's better if he doesn't call unless he really needs to.

Also decided after the call to check in on the spending. $166 spent at stores since Friday afternoon. $67.00 in eating out. It will be interesting to see if he spent any of it on son or myself. I almost kind of expect to see he spent a little on himself and most of it on OW, maybe some guilt allaying on his part for coming home and getting intimate with me. :P

[JFun51]

TL,

My bride has gone from uber mom to completely dropping the ball on emotional responsibility for our boys. She won't tuck them in at night, which used to be our ritual. If they want to see her at all, they must go into MBR and get on the bed with her. It's almost like she's got a terminal illness and is bedridden. She still drives them to and from school because she works there and really has no choice. S12, S10, & I have played a lot of 3 man games together over they past few months. In fact, S10 & I picked out Christmas tree tonight after I took him to play practice, then S12 helped me trim, straighten, & place it in the house. This would have previously been a full family activity. Not so now.

Just went to tuck in boys and W again didn't move out if her bed. This has been going on over a week now. This is one of the newest developments in her depression. As I type this, one of the boys called to her and she wound up saying GN to both.

Her spending is out if control. Burned through bill money so I'll have to use Christmas bonus money for bills now. Svcks.

[tigerlily78]

Just went to tuck in boys and W again didn't move out if her bed. This has been going on over a week now. This is one of the newest developments in her depression. As I type this, one of the boys called to her and she wound up saying GN to both.

Her spending is out if control. Burned through bill money so I'll have to use Christmas bonus money for bills now. Svcks.

I am sorry for you JFun. I know how crummy it is to feel like nothing in their old loves matters anymore 97% of the time. I guess I am lucky that my H is still spending a somewhat manageable amount of money... we SHOULD be able to still pay our bills, but he is spending as if nothing else pressing will come up and we have already been putting off getting our roof reshingled for over 6 months. We would certainly be better off NOT spending this money on silly crap like eating out.

I am sorry your W is cutting into the Christmas nestegg and you will have to spend some of it on bills. I'm trying to hold out hope that my H will at least make sure Christmas is still nice for our son, I am not expecting he will spend anything on me, which [censored]. But better to have no expectation and be surprised with something, than expect something and get nothing.

[JFun51]

I haven't even broached the subject about how to approach Christmas gifts between us. I've thought that I'd help the boys pick out something for her from them. Maybe she will do the same. I don't expect anything from her, but don't know if I should have a gift from me to her. Disgusting to think about.

[Pudmuddle]

tiger, Sorry to hear that your S is wanting his dad to be around. I would continue to let S call him but as far as you, I wouldn't try to explain to H anymore about why S is doing what he is doing. This is for your H to figure out in my opinion. It may seem like you trying to control the situation and that maybe you are putting S up to it when you try to explain it all. I don't think you are, but this is the way your H will see it right now. He is being untrustworthy so he projects that on to you.

JF, TL, I haven't even approached the subject of gifts for Christmas either. Although H has brought up a few ideas for members of his family. Kind of like he was telling me so that I would do it. That was interesting. Also, the idea of putting up the tree right now is daunting to me because in the past 3 years it has been difficult to get H and S to participate in doing this with me. I think since H's downward spiral he never wanted to help put ornaments on the tree or help decorate and that was a complete downer. Plus with S being 16 he just isn't into it as much as he used to be. That stinks.

I will have to do it by myself I'm sure and that just stinks. Love stinks.

As far as spending, sorry JF that your wife is blowing Christmas money, that sux. That is some serious depression behavior right there. I hope you can do some things that are more meaningful and do it with less money. My H was always the tightwad and fortunately, as far as I know, he still has been. I haven't seen any monetary improprieties from him yet. Still makes me wonder what he will do for Floormop for Christmas...Ugh.

It is hard to think of getting them gifts, and I have no expectation on receiving one from him either, tiger. My bday is next week and I am dreading that. Need to lower my expectations and do something just for me.

We'll get through this you two!! Hang in there with me!

[tigerlily78]

Happy Early Birthday Pud.

H was home most of the day today. It was kind of nice, even if he did spend most of it hidden away in his office. He came home on the early side. We had some cuddling and "favors" for both of us. I did have to ask for mine, but he was very willing when I mentioned it. I guess that I turned him down twice may have sent the message I wasn't going to. So willing I think giving me goodies was almost enough for him to get a cookie himself. Rawr.
At one point I asked him what he would think if I changed my mind about the ML boundary. He said he would love that, but he thought I would be disappointed with myself afterwards. Interesting.

A little post shower talk and he lets me know the check engine light came on in the car, he thinks for now it is something we can put off getting fixed. Car seems to be running fine at the moment, probably an sensor needs to be replaced. Luckily we don't have to pass emissions again for a whole year.

We spent enough time in bed he "had" to work from home today (I told him two or three times that he probably needed to stop what we were doing and go get ready for work. Guess he wasn't that motivated to go in to the office.

He wore a plain white t-shirt and pajama pants all day. THAT is what I am used to seeing, not the "I have to dress up just in case someone calls me for lunch or I decide to go on a walkabout in the middle of the day to spend some money." I made him lunch. He trusted me to take the debit card to the grocery store today, but did ask me to send him the list of what I was getting first. I will take that as progress.

When I got home and returned the card, we had a brief talk about how much I spent. Yes, again it seems like a lot to him. He asked what I bought that wasn't on the list. I mentioned 2 things, one was basically for him. I mentioned that we have been getting by recently spending a lot less than usual on groceries. He might want to consider setting a budget of what he thinks is reasonable or responsible to spend when he is going out. I mentioned I *know* that we have some big expenses around the corner, not just Christmas, but potentially dealing with the car issue, doing the roof, dues for scouting, etc. That he is basically in control of everything I spend, he should know I am not the one spending money money on unnecessary things and that it DOES irritate me to feel like I am being raked over the coals for buying groceries and I am intentionally giving up things so that he can turn around and spend a bunch of money on someone else. That it would make me a lot more comfortable if he set a budget He brings up the fact that "before your sister came to stay with us, I had barely spent any money on myself for YEARS." I tell him I understand that, but what happened in the past doesn't mean we don't have bills to pay today. I also don't mind him spending a little money on himself here or there, but I don't feel like son and I should be rationing the slices of a loaf of bread while he is off taking someone else out to eat for tons of meals. So, yes this made him defensive and want to end the conversation, even though I was very calm and matter of fact in my delivery. He says he knows he needs to do something about making sure I have a little cash on hand for things like that, but he just hasn't had time to plan anything. (What is there to PLAN? He takes money out at the stores all the time, it isn't rocket science. He just has to actually decide to do it and follow through. Of course previously the idea of me having any cash was abhorrent because I can't be trusted... so I guess this is a small shift in his thinking at least).

I don't want to keep mentioning the money situation, but I have yet to see that he is taking this idea seriously. And it could be a serious problem this month. Also, he left a bag in the car that had like $10 worth of stuff from a discount/novelty store for son. I asked if this meant he was also planning to do all the Christmas shopping with OW and cutting me out of the process. He says, "no. I just stumbled across that stuff while I was out and decided to get it." There was a tag from some other thing he bought, but I can't figure out what it was. Certainly for OW. He bought something at two big box stores over the weekend too... I think one thing he bought was a new version of the black European driving cap. Ugh. (more on that later)

He keeps using the time my sister stayed here as the new crux/time point of reference SO many of his gripes. Apparently me helping out a family member in need and spending a little extra money to take her and son out to do things when we DID finally have family in town is the source of all his financial misfortune. And since I did that (I did tell sister she could stay here temporarily without directly asking him, THAT was a mistake I see in retrospect and I HAVE apologized and owned up to it, but still ALL the gosh dang resentment. I swear he has never forgiven me for a single mistake I have made in the past 16 years).

Made him and son dinner, son quit the game in order to eat dinner while it was warmish, H did not but did eventually eat all his dinner. They played some more until we had to leave for son's activity.

Got home, H was getting ready to leave. He was drying off when I came into the bedroom. Some half hearted modesty with the towel... kind of funny. I did just see his nakedness this morning after all. He wrapped in his towel and gave me a hug. Maybe my body language said I was asking for it, I don't know. My hands were too cold and he pulled away with a yip. He came down in a shirt and a towel not long after and asked if we had any desserts. I told him son and I saved him the last piece of Pumpkin Pie. He ate the pie in the kitchen. Some small talk between the three of us. Before he went back upstairs I initiated a "make up" hug since he had a shirt on and my hands had warmed up. It was a good hug. He mentioned he was "even letting my junk touch you." I gave him a quick peck on the neck and quietly told him I really liked this morning." Eye contact, but no reply.

HE went upstairs to finish getting dressed. Son and I started bedtime reading ritual in the living room and dessert. H came through and asked if I had the keys. I did, handed them to him back and over my shoulder as I was sitting on the futon and made sure my fingers grazed his palm just so, I gave him a raised eyebrow kind of look. He then was fiddling with something behind me and I turned to look more, then he went back to the kitchen for a minute, then came back through. I stopped reading again and gave him a look. He asked, "Why are you acting suspicious?" I said, "I am acting suspicious because as soon as you leave son and I are going to throw a party... on a school night." I then explained that I thought I was just giving him the proper opportunity to say goodbye. As he is going out the door he puts on the new hat. He says, "What do you think? Does it look good?" Son says, "Nice Hat." I say, "I don't know. I think it says "trying too hard." He says, "Oh, well in that case..." and doesn't finish.

In that case what? He won't ever want to be with me in the future because I didn't lie and say I like that hat? He went from a guy who looks young for his age to wearing a hat someone's grandpa brought back from the war. I mean I guess if he WANTS to look 10 years older than he IS, then that's the right look. I just don't think it does anything for him. Should I just say everything looks great from now on?

I don't like being fake.

[tigerlily78]

Also. I remember him mentioning that he planned to buy another set of headphones, so that explains about $40 of the spending this weekend. $10 on son. Maybe $20 for the hat.

$90 or so still unaccounted for from Kohls and Target. Hmph.

[tigerlily78]

tiger, Sorry to hear that your S is wanting his dad to be around. I would continue to let S call him but as far as you, I wouldn't try to explain to H anymore about why S is doing what he is doing. This is for your H to figure out in my opinion. It may seem like you trying to control the situation and that maybe you are putting S up to it when you try to explain it all. I don't think you are, but this is the way your H will see it right now. He is being untrustworthy so he projects that on to you.

That's a good observation. You are right, I shouldn't have to explain anything. Son and I have started playing more card games together when we are alone. Tomorrow evening H also plans to be around, he mentioned to son about playing more games together. Son sent him a message on computer that he was thinking maybe we could play some cards games together. H replies. "Who thinks that?" Son replies, "I do." And then a minute later, I mean _son's_name_."

So funny. So H probably thinks I am the mastermind of that too. He can't seem to understand that playing a computer game with eachother from two separate rooms is not really "quality time together" ... that son actually misses SEEING him and being WITH him.

So I guess we will see what happens tomorrow with that situation.

I am feeling pretty good today, except for the money/shopping situation kind of nibbling in the back of my mind.

[tigerlily78]

I slept terribly. Had an awful nightmare. Spent way too much time laying in bed thinking last night and half this morning.

H comes home for lunch and has a bag behind his back. He says he went to Office Max and that it is a "secret". He has this playful smile on his face that puts me at ease and I assume if it was REALLY a secret, whatever it is would be at OW's house or left hiding in the car. :P

I leveled with H after he put his secret away that I was not in a good state from lack of sleep. I told him about my dream (he was in it, it was traumatic). He reminds me of a show we watched where they explained dreams are often our brains way of helping us work through fears by allowing us to run simulations and puzzle out ahead of time how we would react. He hugged me.

He asked what was for lunch. I said I didn't know, I had just gotten out of bed minutes before he came home. He joked about making us lunch, but that there was only one thing in the pantry he really though he knows how to make. Maybe he was serious, I don't know. I smiled and said I didn't think I felt like eating that today, since it was going to be my breakfast. I suggested something to make and he said that would be great, he likes that lunch.

He talked about some developments at work. I was sure to validate. He was still hanging out a little and giving attention to one of our cats.

I told him I was curious if he does any cooking or washes dishes for the OW. He said he didn't think he should have to answer that, that it shouldn't matter. He got a little bit of an edge in his voice. I told him it does matter to me, because it might mean something important if he is willing to step up and do things for her that he hasn't ever really wanted to do for me. That it stands to reason that if he is investing more effort in that relationship than he did in this one, that I should be realistic about the likelihood that they will break up.

He got a little snippy and said, "No, I don't do dishes or anything at her house." I said, "Well I guess with you taking her out all the time, she is probably okay with doing the rest of the cooking and dishes." He says they don't eat out "all the time" and he goes out to eat so much because HE likes to do it, that it is more for HIM, than her. I point out that he goes out to eat with her more than he ever did with me, so it seems like it is just as much for her, that she certainly benefits from it. He is spending considerable money on her that could just as well be used for other things.

He says he hasn't spent that much on her really. He bought her something small and cheap for her birthday (discount store item? Still doesn't explain everything he bought at other big box stores this weekend.)

He also says he doesn't really do anything more for her than he does for me. That he probably has done a lot more for me actually at times. I say, "But not anymore." I remind him that he said there were many things he still thought he wanted to do with me, but I don't see him actually taking any action. He says he has asked me a few times and he didn't get the reaction he wanted, and even today on the way home he was thinking about asking me to lunch, but didn't. I tell him that just because I reacted a certain way a few weeks ago, doesn't mean that's the only reaction I am capable of. Things change and I am changing. But he has to actually try and see. He says he will keep that in mind, he excuses himself to go check his work messages.

I brought him lunch in his den (I am teary eyed), he was very deliberate is giving me eye contact and a smile and thanking me for lunch. Tells me lunch looks great. I reply, "Thank you. Now THAT is the kind of trying too hard that I like." We both laughed a little. He said, "So, you really don't like the hat?" I said, "I think it makes you look about 10 years older. Is that what you were going for?" He gasps, "You think it makes me look a lot older?" "Yes, I say. I am sure OW loves it because of her Daddy issues. But honestly, I don't think it is really an improvement. It's different, but not necessarily better." He doesn't seem bothered by my statement of truth. I said I guess it makes sense to me now that OW makes him feel special and needed and awesome, because compared to her he really is. And I supposed that someone like me who is smart and competent and basically happy with themselves maybe doesn't give him that same sense that he is desperately NEEDED. That I am sure it is appealing to be able to play the role of rescuing her from her self imposed poverty and emotional issues. I told him I think it's unfortunate that he feels someone like that is what he deserves and wants and that in some screwed up way life with me and our son is not good enough. He wants to know why I included son in the statement. I point out that if he chooses the other situation has his future, that being a real part-time, less available father is the reality. He would be choosing that role as well. He says it's not true, that I am not good enough. That I am good enough in so many ways. That 5 years ago he was very happy with me, with our situation. (Previously it was "when we moved here that he was most happy"... that's 10 years ago).

I say, "I see, so five years ago before my sister came to stay here and we took in that other cat you were happy here... the cat by the way is going to her new home this week." He says, "Those are two decisions you made without asking me... no wonder I'm not happy." I point out that I have apologized for both situations, what more do I need to do? I can't change the past and it seems like when he does think of the past he can only remember all the shittiest things, none of the good. I also explain that much of the time I feel like he is too busy and doesn't want to be bothered to be INVOLVED in making decisions, so yes, I do feel compelled at times to make decisions without him. It's not how I would prefer for things to be. At the time I thought I was making decisions he wouldn't care that much about, but clearly I was WRONG. (See? I admit when I am wrong)

He wanders off muttering to the restroom, when he comes back he doesn't address any of the meat and potatoes of the issues, He wants to talk about the cat leaving. He seems surprised, even though I told him 3 weeks ago I was working on re-homing her where she will be happier and not have territorial issues with other cats. He asked when I found out she would be going, I said I finalized it on Sunday. I told him I wasn't even sure if I should tell him, I didn't know if he would want to know that she was leaving. It's just another thing to think about and he has enough on his plate. I also mention that he was right that we should have tried to find her a different home years ago. She has caused us a lot of stress. He picked her up and held her for awhile and babytalked to her. He said he wished we hadn't kept her so long that people were attached, that our son was attached. He asked if our son knew about us getting rid of her. I said yes, son knows. We talked about it quite a bit and he is okay with it. (anyone else see the contrast between leaving your family for another woman versus finding a new home for a cat?) He says he is glad son is okay with the decision.

He gives me another big hug and says he needs to get back to working, so I let him go.

A couple hours later I send him a message that says, "I appreciated your showing appreciation today, it made me feel a little better, despite my crappy frame of mind right now."

No reply. Another few hours later I add," Also, I would love it if you made lunch for me sometime. If you were serious."

He replies, "I'll add it to my todo list."

[2Times2Many]

It did really strike me as odd, how at BD and in the first week or so afterwards he wanted to tell me EVERYTHING. I know WAY more about the OW than is reasonable or sane.

Why do they do this? I know way more about her than I bet she does about me! But all is good, at least I know what I'm up against!

Some half hearted modesty with the towel... kind of funny.

Wow, my h did this too. I knocked on his door and just kind of went on in. He grabbed something to cover up. We had just been naked together an hour earlier. But ... he has no problems coming into the bathroom when I'm showering behind a glass door. So funny.

You're doing so great, tiger!

Pud ... I made h set up the tree, then I put on some good music and decorated myself. Add a glass of wine and a snack of some sort and enjoy yourself! No reason to let his non-festive mood stop you from enjoying the holiday.