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Look, you can twist yourself in knots with the "alpha/beta" stuff, and at the end of the day, if it's not "who you are", then you're really not living your life with integrity.

It's something to be aware of, it's something to be educated about. It can give you pitfalls to avoid, but unfortunately for too many LBS's it sets you on a path of trying to remake yourself into a romance novel cover model, and that's just adding more self-torture in a scenario when you are tortured enough.

The other piece of this is what's called a "fitness test" -- that's where your wife fears that you lack backbone, so will push you and act out to provoke you to stand up for yourself. In that case, doing what they ask you for, or appeasing them, is actually losing, and what they're looking for you to do is stand up for yourself and push back.

The Dean's List and the birthday examples above both come across as possible fitness test issues to me, because her expectations seem fairly childish, and your behavior seems like it was reasonable.

The worst thing you can do is to appear to be twisting yourself in knots to please a WAW. It repels them, it does not draw them in.

If she's actively involved with OM, then in my opinion, do not buy her a gift. Don't tolerate her affair. I think that in standing up for yourself in this way, you're actually demonstrating independence which is more attractive than giving her a gift would be.

If you're in a committed relationship with me, we will exchange meaningful gifts. If you're not in a committed relationship with me, then we won't. I don't see the issue with that.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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I think AS and Acc have already touched on the gift thing. But I'd like to point it out again, in a different way.

She was telling you that she DID want you to make her birthday a bigger deal. You, as a man, interpreted that as meaning something more expensive becuse us men derive our worth a lot of times from what we provide.

But she is a woman. What she focuses on is how 'caring' and thoughtful your gift is, not its value.

Acc is right that if she is actively seeing someone else, your expensive gifts will do nothing but make her see you as a pathetic man who still doesn't understand her, and also thinks he can buy her happiness. Best bet now is to drop the gifting and look strong and confident without her.

One thing that ha had positive reactions in my sitch (my wife is actively seeing OM and has similar complaints to what you are hearing) is to not give gifts but to up the thoughtfulness.

Lets take christmas for example. If she is seeing someone, that man has no history with her and really barely knows her, despite both of them thinking they are soul mates (gag me). Lets say he goes out and spends a ton of money on jewelery or something valueable for her. She will say wow I wish husband made such a big deal about gifts for me. Even if its not a thoughtful gift, its significance and the contrast between his gifts and yoir in prior years will be played up by her in order to further convince her that you don't understand her.

Now, what if you drove across town and picked up her favorite milk shake from that place you used to go to together. It only cost you $3 but think of how she, as a woman, will perceive the gift. You hav demonstrated that you DO know her, infact better than OM ever will. This is how you use SHARED HISTORY to your advantage. Its not about money or gifts, to a woman it is about who UNDERSTANDS her and who doesn't.

My wife once spent $3 on a milk shake and $120 to overnight it packed in dry ice to her childhood best friend (girl) who had moved across the country. It was from the place they used to skip school to visit together. That, is how women think!!

Problem is that as AS pointed out, this is what she needed from you back when the relationship was good. So you have to balance your efforts now, with keeping your dignity....

So instead of getting the milk shake and saying 'I drove 30 miles to get this for you' which is what she would have loved to hear back then, you say 'my friends and I were at that ice cream place you like and I thought you might emjoy this milk shake. Its your favorite flavor'. Now it shows dignity, but thoughtfulness, and gives a reminder that only YOU know what her favorite flavor is.

Subtle, yet effective. Woman are emotional beings, and us men learn this way too late. Dont try to appeal to her logic.


Me, H-34 now 38
W-32 now 35
T-13 now 18 years
M-6 now 9
Daughter 3 years now 7
Bomb 11/27/12 - OM
1 year in house separation
Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
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SM34 . . . great post, and good advice for cc. And coming from a woman's POV, you are correct. The $3 milkshake means much more than the expensive jewelry.

So . . . what about the man's perspective? I'm guessing oral sex? wink

But seriously - I have no idea what to do about the holidays this year - whether to get H a gift or not, what to get if I do . . . ugggh. Why is everything so complicated now?


me: 44 XH: 42
M 11 years
D10 and S8
Bomb drop 9/27/13
D final 7/1/14
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Thanks melissa! Means a lot coming from a woman. It means my efforts to better understand women is paying off.

Cc you asked where to read about alpha and beta, captain and first mate etc...

The authority on this seems to be Athol Kay. He has a blog and a book ane and a forum called 'Married man's sex primer'.

But don't get too carried away with it. I wasted a lot of time with those conecpts and then ass Accuray said, I'm the end I wasn't being true to myself. It is good to know what a fitness test is and how women use them subconciously because right now you don't want to be failing any of them. Most likely yoi have been failing most of them for years and that is why you are here..

Men raised by their moms to be chivalrous, a gentleman etc. We are told that one day we must put our wife on a pedestal. But if you observe men who get all the women you will see they have a completely different approach.

Women look for a strong man who can stand up to them. Much of their little fits are meant to test you for the response. It is a subconcious mechanism women have that is dsigned to weed out the boys from the men.

Most of us men start off passing all the tests. We are young and arrogant and confident. We don't care what women think at that point. We land a nice woman nd get married and is all down hill from then. Her fitness tests increase in quantity and difficulty as the marriagr progresses and you give more and more power to her. Shes on a pedestal, queen of the house. And then you dont hold her interest anymore. You become to easy. And the attraction starts to fade.

The wife keeps on dishing out the tests with more and more intensity, the more you fail the more you get. Respect goes out the windiw and with it goes attraction..

Wife is now ripe for an affair. Welcome to the real world.


Me, H-34 now 38
W-32 now 35
T-13 now 18 years
M-6 now 9
Daughter 3 years now 7
Bomb 11/27/12 - OM
1 year in house separation
Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 150
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Originally Posted By: Accuray
Look, you can twist yourself in knots with the "alpha/beta" stuff, and at the end of the day, if it's not "who you are", then you're really not living your life with integrity.

It's something to be aware of, it's something to be educated about. It can give you pitfalls to avoid, but unfortunately for too many LBS's it sets you on a path of trying to remake yourself into a romance novel cover model, and that's just adding more self-torture in a scenario when you are tortured enough.



The strange part in all of this, is that i feel like in every other aspect of my life, I am the leader. When it comes to my job, people come to me with questions, they ask me how things should be done. In some respects i am the authority. It has always been this way with my friendships as well. I take the lead and my friends will follow.

This is especially true in my online games. I'm confident, i have great belief that i know what i'm takling about. People listen to me, and follow my lead.

When it comes down to it, in all of these examples, i feel comfortable in knowing how to lead these situations. I have confidence that i know what to do.

Is that the answer?


M28 W27
D3
M 2years
Bomb 9/23/2013
Separated 11/17/2013
EA/PA Confirmed 12/5/13

Expecting Compliance is Control
What would you do, if you weren't Afraid?

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SM34.

Thank you very much for your response on gifting. It really does make sense to me now. I'm now thinking about doing something meaningful, something that she has brought up in the past that only her and I would know about. But i'm also thinking about giving her the gift from my daughter? Would this be a good idea?.


Quote:

Men raised by their moms to be chivalrous, a gentleman etc. We are told that one day we must put our wife on a pedestal. But if you observe men who get all the women you will see they have a completely different approach.

Women look for a strong man who can stand up to them. Much of their little fits are meant to test you for the response. It is a subconcious mechanism women have that is dsigned to weed out the boys from the men.

Most of us men start off passing all the tests. We are young and arrogant and confident. We don't care what women think at that point. We land a nice woman nd get married and is all down hill from then. Her fitness tests increase in quantity and difficulty as the marriagr progresses and you give more and more power to her. Shes on a pedestal, queen of the house. And then you dont hold her interest anymore. You become to easy. And the attraction starts to fade.



Wow. "You beomce to easy". She has said this to me. Her view of me is starting to add up.


M28 W27
D3
M 2years
Bomb 9/23/2013
Separated 11/17/2013
EA/PA Confirmed 12/5/13

Expecting Compliance is Control
What would you do, if you weren't Afraid?

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Posts: 150
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Journaling.

So yesterday was Thanksgiving. All in all it was a great day to be honest. I started and ended the day in a great mood. W didn't know what the hell was going on. She kept saying... You seem different. Why are you in such a good mood? I even had the courage to smack her rear. She didn't yell or get mad at me, she just gave me this look like... where did that come from? a look of complete confusion.

We went over to her family's for dinner. Her aunt kept commenting on how good I looked. "you've lost so much weight!"
And then she asked me if I had seen that my "twin" won sexiest man alive this year. (Everyone thinks that I look like Adam Levine. the lead singer from Maroon 5). She and others kept commenting on this, telling my W that she was lucky to be married to the sexiest man alive.

And at first my W just kind of smiled, said she had heard about it, etc. But she kept touching me. She would touch my arm, put her hand on my face and kind of just gently stroke. It was strange. (probably also the best feeling i've had in months) She also kept asking me to be around her. Asked me to come sit with her, and also asked if I wanted to take a nap with her?

Obviously this all could have been a show, put on for her family so that they wouldn't know anything is wrong. But it was nice to have a little attention.

When we got home she asked if I wanted to rent Man of Steel ( the newer superman movie). I've been wanting to see it for a long time now, so we rented it and watched it together. We sat on seperate sides of the couch, but it was something.

When we went to bed, I asked if it was ok if i held her. She said yes. I held her all night, and didn't dare let go.(Yes this was pursuing, but she will be moving downstairs this weekend... and it was something that i needed to do. I needed to hold her as my wife, at least one more time)

What did I learn from all of this. BE POSITIVE. ACT AS IF, and I can be happy, if i choose to be.


M28 W27
D3
M 2years
Bomb 9/23/2013
Separated 11/17/2013
EA/PA Confirmed 12/5/13

Expecting Compliance is Control
What would you do, if you weren't Afraid?

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You might want to play a bit more hard to get when she warms up, you don't want to ride the roller coaster.

Acc


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 851
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Acc is right. Dont be too easy!

The smacking on the rear threw her off because its a alpha behavior. She used to you being completely beta in behavior. You might have been making some food pogrss by getting other women's attention infront of her, smacking her rear, and being hapog despite the situation.

But you backslid on tbe alpha behavior by ASKING?? her if you can hold her? Real men don't ask they just do it. You probably expect us to tell you its not manly to hols her all night, but actuall its not what you do but how you do it!! Don't sk for her premission...that's a turn off for women. Take charge!! Or don't do it at all. No middle ground. You are not her gay friend, you are a strong man who doesn't worry about what women or otber men think of you.


Me, H-34 now 38
W-32 now 35
T-13 now 18 years
M-6 now 9
Daughter 3 years now 7
Bomb 11/27/12 - OM
1 year in house separation
Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 851
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Sorry about tyoos. On a phone wink


Me, H-34 now 38
W-32 now 35
T-13 now 18 years
M-6 now 9
Daughter 3 years now 7
Bomb 11/27/12 - OM
1 year in house separation
Reconciliation 12/2013. Healed now 2017
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