Divorce Busting Techniques

[loualea]

Hi 3
sorry to hijack your thread. I just realised I did that this morning.It was one of those days...no need to say more
Good advice.. he would hate it if I involved her and so would she.

I like the idea of sending the hey I am doing great message...that I can do even if I have to enhance the "greatness"!!!!

and he didn't call sent a message at 21.30 he would call today..
so I sent him the times I am available to talk. I don't want to give the impression I sit here like a pet waiting for him to deem to talk to me...

so I was thinking of taking up golf (GAL) the only clubs here are his..I guess I should ask to use them.. but don't really want to. I feel like he has left the things he doesn't really want so I can use them...
but I am more honest than that... I can't let this sitch make me mean..

I have so much admiration for you guys doing this with kids. Yesterday I allowed myself to cry as much as I wanted and as loudly as I wanted and anywhere in the house I wanted. Sure stressed the pup.. he wanted to sit on my lap but he weighs 30 kilos so it was quite ridiculous and did make me laugh for a minute... but that I couldn't do if I had other people in the house - all the crying I mean.

thanks for the good advice. ..... hate to think how badly I would mess this up without DB. and all the support

[melissag]

Hi Lou, I was just reading labug's thread over on Piecing and saw a couple of things that really spoke to me, and I think might help you too.

About being controlling (and impatient) :

"Sometimes when we leave things alone, they advance without us. Stand back and let what's supposed to happen, happen."

“Humility means accepting reality with no attempt to outsmart it.” David Richo

About getting out of your own way . . .

I'm a controller, a defense mechanism that I carried into adulthood. If I could just control things tightly enough that nothing ever went wrong, everything would be OK. i think we all have those, "If I just make x money, everything will be OK", "If I just have this house..." "When the kids get to pre-school, middle school, college..." "If I get that promotion..." "If my H comes back..."

We all know that's not true. Everything will never be OK. That's life.

I've learned that in letting go of the control and the drive to get where I think everything will be OK, things are better than OK. Sometimes life leads you where you need to be, not where you think you want to be but you have to let go in order to see that and enjoy it.

Does life still have ups and downs, certainly but I accept those as a part of life not a permanent state of being.

There are so many slogans that play on this:

Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans.~John Lennon

We must let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the one that is waiting for us.~Joseph Campbell

We can always choose to perceive things differently. You can focus on what's wrong in your life, or you can focus on what's right.~Marianne Williamson

I equate ego with trying to figure everything out instead of going with the flow. That closes your heart and your mind to the person or situation that's right in front of you, and you miss so much.~Pema Chodron

[loualea]

hey Melissa needed that
the management and controll I feel the stress when someone does it to me..Don't know why I didn't see it earlier with H
Today I think I have lost the plot and as I loose the plot I want to hang on tighter and tighter..

So what has gone wrong.. I will try and figure it out..
My imagination #1. I have been giving more space, no emails or texts, except one emergency about electricity-

For some reason the weekend before last I had a much better feeling and also the sense that he was now alone. He stayed in all weekend and offered that when we texted.. said he'd been busy cleaning ...all offered I don't ask questions about what he has been doing anymore.. I thought .. the affair was over.(Expectations !!!) I know wishful thinking.. don't all hit me at once.

I had a good week living in cloud cuckoo land...
though he said he would call Friday then texted .. tomorrow..
I sent the times I would be home.

I had kept giving space this week and he also decided not to come home again. But I made no comment and when we talked I asked how he was doing and told him about the things I was doing around the house and he asked.. when did I want him to come down next. I said I had to think about that . I wasn't sure exactly what he was asking, Was it a special event or an invitation with friends..I did need to think. But I was happy he had asked- fool that I am..
I checked some dates and sent them to him, ones when something interesting was on, I also said this ws his home and he could always be here..( wrong ???? I don't know anymore)He chose a date in 2 weeks.

We agreed to talk Sunday.. How happy was I twice in one weekend.
Sunday we chatted about the weekend and the rugby when I told him I was visiting friends near him and we planned to visit his town he said we could meet up.. OK Imagine the smile..
then he realised we were driving up when I asked could we park at his place and go in on train..- the crowds are crazy this time of year there.. and he said no because he could have someone visiting

OK imagine the crash... I know just what deserved.. I said I thought it was over.. he said no, what gave me that idea..

He said we needed to talk, not pretend nothing is going on ( I know that but last time he came he said not one word about anything.. and I was giving space and not controlling so did not start the conversation.
The previous 3 conversations about the R have ended with him leaving.. not in a rage but just leaving. It is all too stressful he says.. I guess because I validate how he must have felt but do not agree with his conclusion.

So I have no idea where I am. From coaching I was looking for small steps forward towards a more positive relationship- even though he is still seeing someone else. Is that crazy.. I am not doing the exposure thing.. I know that will be the final nail on this marriage coffin.
I am also not making final demands- "It is her or me". because I know that answer too..
I am giving space and trying hard not to control, even though it sometines slips in with tone of voice.. but then we do not speak so much.

But I fell off the DB wagon , big time. He keeps saying " He is seeing someone", and then told me a couple of people he works with who also know me know about his cheating .. well 2 people
.
So I sent an email that said it is called adultery or cheating or infidelity or unfaithfulness, and also gave him the same words in his first language. He always sounds as if I am not too worried about it, it is happening. so I was clear that it is not OK, that it does hurt me and that while I still want to rebuild a marriage with him..I don't even think about it while he is involved with someone else. I reminded him of his view on another friend who walked his same road and how outraged he was...

I know all bad..it gets worse..

I checked the bank account and saw that changes had been made to deposits and term savings I knew nothing about the changes.. I was relatively calm I thought..Email again- said I had noticed the changes, was hurt by the lack of consultation- it is a joint account. he replied that they were minor changes and we should talk tonight. And also on Saturday when I visit.. WT#.

My friends would be happy to leave us alone for a bit.. but do I really want that conversation in the middle of a Christmas Market????? No I don't..

My cherry on this disaster cake is that he will not commit to spending Christmas here or leaving me alone here.. so I asked for a decision and set a date ( coaches advice).

So I have totally mucked it up and have no clue where I am..
stop pursuing for sure. Cancel the trip to his town.. tell him it doesn't suit and just hang out with my friends - which was the originl plan until he suggested we meet up.
R talks on the phone.. not really

no more emails.. regret those already ..
Sorry you have to read through my mess..
My coach's thought is to keep some mid week contact.. which seems to be OK.

But we have not ever had a conversation where we have said what we want - except for space and care for himself one.. weeks ago
and he has not ever even slightly entertained the idea of working at the marriage. He still claims the affair is a coincidence and he would have had enouh of the marriage anyway.. I don't buy it. he starts an affair and that same weekend changes his behaviour- radically..

I appreciate any going forward thoughts I have.. I am beating myself up over expectations. and how happy they made me..at least I had a happy day.. which is really bad because it means he is doing the controlling... and I am not detaching. AHHHH

[loualea]

Today is abad place for some reason
One of those dayswehn reality hits and hurts..

So as I move forward I know he is going to want a conversation at some stage about what we are doing and where we are going
I am not initiaiting it but he has said we cannot pretend nothing is happening..

It could be this weekend and I am not sure of my reactions
I have my boundaries but I do not think they will be part of the equation because he doesnot want to be married

I would like to have a chance to save the amrriage though I know the time is not now

So how do I proceed.
Do I tell WS I want to think through what he proposes though I don't know what that is.
Until he stops seeing the OW I do not have any other thoughts really.

I realise now I should not be telling him I want the marriage to continue or to argue with whatever he is proposing.
I realise I should validate his feelings while not neessarily recognising they are right

I would really appreciate advice on how to manage this conversation so I am seen as strong and in control but not pushy and controlling..

thanks

[melissag]

Lou, I am sorry you are having such a tough day. I totally get the not being detached feeling - and it's only natural at this point for you to be affected by everything H says/does. Just make sure that you calm those thoughts by looking back to your DB plan and following it. Also, listen to your coach!

I'm going to let the vets address your question about how to handle your R talk. For me, all of our R talks have been about how we feel, what we've been thinking about, what went wrong, etc. Nothing about what is going to happen in terms of our M - we don't know right now.

As far as the Christmas Market . . . I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to say you would prefer not to talk during that event. And as for whether you should go at all, that's really up to you. Do you still want to go? Do you still want to meet up with H? If he is going to be there with OW, do you actually want to see him?

I hope some vets have time to weigh in today. Hang in there and remember to keep doing things for you!

[loualea]

Well he texted and said he would be out of town the day I was there.
He is not confident enough to turn up with the OW Melissa. He is taking great pains to keep us very separate. He does not want me to visit his apartment because he might have a visitor..which is fine by me
Not sure what it would serve to meet anyway.. My hope is she is out of our lives ASAP. faint hope but that is my wish
I was sorted of disappointed but then saw it was an opportunity and wrote
thanks for letting me know I can now plan something fun with my friends.

Was that the right approach?

I am confused I think with the contact thing... The advice is not to be total no contact but brief and light and friendly.
People who have been here when you are living apart... how do you monitor that . I have to be totally not controlling - which I believe for him means asking what he has been doing, how was his weekend, plans for the week actually anything about his life... so what do we have conversations about.?

Anyone been in this position and what did you do about it? What helped to make the conversations more natural?

I wonder should I be posting in the infidelity forum?
Some of his friends now know about the affair? Bad news or good news for the M.
I have not made demands about the OW, obviously he knows it has damaged me...demands are controlling.
I must not be controlling of him and his actions.

He said the marriage was over before the affair- as they all do. Do they usually revise their view later after the affair is over?
Or is that a position they stick to or is it too individual to say.

His issues with me are events in the past where he believes I betrayed his trust, or he can not believe I the things I say as true...
any thoughts on a 180 on those issues while we don't see each other often?

[loualea]

Here is what struck me this morning..
If I am happy then I know WH will relax and think - good that is over.. she is happy so now I don’t have to worry about her.. and I can continue doing what I want.. I know that . It is him avoid conflict and confrontation and hurt feelings and crying

but if I am miserable and pleading it pushes WH away,,, they both push him away...

He has left me a no man’s land where I do not know what his intentions are..

I think he is hoping he can just slide into not contacting me anymore and be free..
He has taken his favourite clothes, sneakily, some DVDs some mementoes he values...
Never once saying he was taking them
I keep fearing I will come home and he will have been here with a truck, taken the furniture he wants and say nothing..

This not knowing is driving me crazy.. and while I know I need to move on.. it is hard when I do not know where I will be living, working , how much money I will have, what furniture I will have.. nothing...

Having a bad morning

Really going total NO contact this weekend since he ran away so he would not need to meet me..
I will have fun with my friends but inside I am dieing..

[2ndTimeHurt]

Hi loualea

It's terrible you're having a bad day. I hate when I have those.

Anyway, one thing I wanted to say was in regards to this..."Anyone been in this position and what did you do about it? What helped to make the conversations more natural?"

For me what helped was to just listen. Eventually they will talk about something. Don't judge, don't criticize, don't even offer solutions. Just listen and try to keep the conversation going. It's actually not a natural conversation but more like you're just the listener and add in the odd question to keep the conversation going. I did that countless times the last time my W left me. I'm gonna have to do it again. Haha.

[loualea]

thanks 2nd time

I tried that the last time he was home..
steeled myself to not ask questions ( that is controlling)
made myself not ask about his plans or relationship talk ( 37 steps advice)
practiced validating to myself so it was more natural when I would use it for him

I was ready and also 180 becuae I use to drive all the conversations

so what happened

NOTHING

we walked the dog, cooked and ate, watched T V talked about the week a ver ylittle

and generally felt uncomfortable with each other...

then he left..

Laterby telephone I commented that he seemed rather stressed. he said that was not the impression he meant to give

so that did not work really
he said I was pretending everything was normal and we need to talk
he said we could talk today when I was in his town ( though I was not welcome to his apartment) then organsied to not be there today...
so is he anxious to talk or isn't he ?
Am I anxious to talk.. well I certainly don't want a final conversation that finishes us but then maybe he thinks we have had that conversation.. I am really confused.. and have no plan- except to clean the kitchen!
Oh happy saturday

[juliegayle]

Hi. I have been reading your thread for a while and really wanted to reach out and give support today. You are up and down and confused and that it perfectly reasonable at this point. (If you were to read my thread you would say I am to confused to be giving advice to anyone)

You said above "maybe he thinks we have already had that conversation. " you may not have had that ultimate conversation you have been dreading but he has let you know where he is for now and what he wants for now which is space. As long as there is OW in picture you just have to give him that and protect yourself.

You also said a while ago that you thought about if he had died. I think that is normal. I certainly have been thinking that. It would hurt less. But then I think I would have never been forced to start working on myself. So in a way I feel H may be doing me a favor because now I am exploring some issues I never even knew I had.

So...don't know if there was anything useful in that ramble. Just my version of a virtual cup if comfort tea.