Welcome back to the wonderful world of PatientMan's verbosity. I have a story to tell, and like all of yours the dynamics of it are extremely complex and complicated. Thanks in advance for anyone who makes it all the way through. smile

Originally Posted By: labug
Quote:
I realize she may be reaching out to me and perhaps my rejection of that request will have negative results down the line. However, like a drug addict, I don't want to be a quick fix that makes her feel better in the moment, but doesn't fix her long term issue.


Only she can fix her long term issue.


True, but I don't want to be an enabler. I don't want to make things worse for her, and I've watched the torture she puts herself through post-these enabling events.

Originally Posted By: labug
If you're not going to visit because it's a boundary to protect you, more power to you.

This sounds like you deciding what's best for her.


I need to protect myself more, but I have not decided on a clear set of boundaries for me. Maybe I need more concrete boundaries now that we are divorced (as I've posted about addressing a few times, but haven't actually addressed), but because I am "standing" maybe I don't need a concrete set of boundaries and - as AS points out in his post - I need to accept SOME requests or they're going to stop altogether.

But then I get to thinking, maybe those requests should stop altogether - at least for a while. Yes, I am standing, but yes, we are divorced and I shouldn't be her cake - that as much as I would like to be there for her and make her feel better (which I haven't verbalized in a LONG time), she and I both need to feel the effects of being divorced. NOT to punish her in any way, but just to accept the reality that is. Ex-spouses aren't the first people to contact for support and help...right?

What our current reality is, though the divorce was final almost 6 months ago, is that we still seem to be very much in a state of limbo minus an enormous amount of pressure, though I am far more detached than before. I feel we need to break the cycle of dependency, though I believe I am much further along in this regard than she. I do think the divorce facilitated the removal of pressure in our limbo state, and perhaps this will end up being a positive event in our story.

**taking a breath**

So many things to think about, I just need to figure out what I believe the "right" approach is - boundary-wise - (for *me* and my goals, not trying to manipulate an end result) and let that guide me.

I know I want to help her. I know I like spending time with her. I know I would eventually like to R. I know right now I want to call her up and tell her that I'm tired of being divorced and a part-time dad. But of course, I won't. Those are just some of the thoughts *I* have when *I'm* having weak moments.

But whenever I feel like that I STOP feeling like that and start feeling AWESOME instead. True story. wink

---

Back to the story of Sunday night, she called me up and invited me over that evening around 7 or 8pm, and she had communicated to me several times during the day that she was having a tough time (her possibly implying she wanted my help/presence, but since I try to minimize mind-reading anymore I just listened and validated throughout the day).

Her personality and the dynamic of our relationship for as long as we've known each other is that she'll mention a problem and I'll fix it. She doesn't typically ask explicitly for something to be done.

I don't want to paint the picture that she said "jump" and I would ask "how high?", it was just how we operated.

"One of the kitchen lights is out" is an implied statement of "will you please fix it?" And I would fix whatever needs fixing without a word as soon as I had the time.

It's just how I feel most comfortable showing love for others: doing things for them. And when she noticed she always came back later and thanked me for fixing whatever needed fixed. I would never ask for them, but she knows I like my neck rubbed and she would do little stuff like that for me in return. It just seemed like an unspoken, yet communication dynamic we enjoyed that I'm sure most couples have as well.

I haven't read the 5LL book (I bought it, and once school is over I have a large stack of books to read), but I like physical touch from her and I like to show love by doing acts of service. I need to figure out what *her* LL's are too, so I can be more cognizant of what she is looking for.

But since the divorce, I've backed off of responding to me "reading" her and fixing things. She consistently pursued and followed through with divorcing me, so I have to take that as a signal that my services are no longer needed/wanted. As she has steadfastly stated over the last two years, she needs to be "okay on her own." So when she wants my help in the moment (the quick fix/feel better), I don't feel like I'm helping her become "okay on her own" - her consistently stated long term goal.

So yes, in a way I am deciding "what's best for her", but it's really based on the two options she has given me: feel better now and perpetuate her depression, unhappiness, and unresolved problems, or help her be okay on her own - as much as that hurts to have the connection severed from my end (more on that later as it's something I've been meaning to address and ask opinions on, but in another post, I promise smile ).

And maybe that's me deciding what is best for her (and maybe you have thoughts on this given the broader context I have provided), but I feel like I am complying with her requests when she is showing weakness...that I AM helping her reach her goals.

And when she is healthier and in a better place, she can then assess what she truly wants out of life. Maybe that will be me, maybe not. But I love her, she is the mother of my children, and I want her to be happy and the best version of herself that she can be.

I feel like I am loving her by helping her get there. And as much as I realize I like her dependency on me as it keeps that connection between us, I don't believe that it's me loving her in the best way possible.

An interesting question I was asked by my T recently was: How can she ever be okay without you if she is never without you?

And another interesting point the T made about welcoming the spouse's emotions and being guarded with your own strategy, is that it is a form of cake-eating. She gets to unload/vent all of her issues and struggles to me, and doesn't have to deal with any of my own.

And a light bulb went off over my head because those make a lot of sense and I hadn't thought of those two perspectives.

---

So that Sunday she was hinting about how her day was tough, and I listened and validated the several times she opened up. When she flat out asked me if I'd like to come up there and write my paper, I must admit I was a bit take aback given she doesn't typically ask for things directly...she wants me to "read" her and respond (as I previously described).

But I turned the offer down. I really wanted to go (I still love spending time with her and she is still probably my best friend), but I don't want to be cake, and I do want to help her reach her long term goals. I love her and care for her and, yes, make decisions based on what I think is best for both her and me and the kids.

I've seen the turmoil she puts herself through when she has a "weak" moment, asks me over for support, and then just beats herself up so harshly for it. I don't want to contribute to that, but perhaps you are right and that is not my call to make. Maybe she needs to keep making those mistakes and come to a realization on her own.

Thoughts?

-PM


M:12y - BD:12/11 - D:6/13 - 4Ds

"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy." -MLK Jr.