Can see sun with head out of sand - 2.5yr

[adinva]

Coming on 2-1/2 years since bomb. My last thread had a list of all my threads. It's just about a complete quilt by now, lol!

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2381913#Post2381913

H gave me his draft separation agreement about this time a year ago and I haven't heard about it since then. A lot of it was upsetting to me a year ago, but now I just think I need to get my financial situation under control.

I have a bad habit of avoiding things I find overwhelming, which unsurprisingly makes them worse. I've been working on so many things over the past two years, my detachment, my emotional health, my reactivity and where that came from, my ability to be in relationships without controlling them, my parenting, my housekeeping, oh so many things. My brain is just full of things. I've been on fun trips, read and learned, and delved into new hobbies, gotten in and out and back in shape. I was relieved to at least be able to put financial worries on the back burner because H was paying the mortgage (in lieu, he suggested, of child support and spousal support) and so as I shouldered all the other bills and expenses I at least knew we'd have a roof over our heads and I could focus on getting myself into a better frame of mind to deal with stuff.

Now, I feel really ok with dealing with stuff, and a little embarassed that I avoided it for so long. Two weeks became a month became six months became a year. My IC asked why I wasn't dealing with this, and at that moment I realized how immature I was being about it, just putting it off.

So I spent an entire weekend processing paperwork, bills, bank statements, etc for my home and company and getting everything in order and filed. Then I spent an entire day categorizing every single output of money I made over the past year, significantly helped by the cool online tool my bank offers. Then I spent a few hours making my very first budget, pencil on paper, with a monthly and cumulative balance for each type of account. A task I avoided out of fear about how long it would take and how bad the numbers would look. Let me tell you, not knowing the numbers does not make them better, it makes them worse. Knowing how bad it is is step one in making it better. I don't know why on earth I didn't want to face this.

So, they're pretty bad. I'm bleeding money. I cancelled all my subscriptions and the housecleaners (I cried because they've been by my side for 15 years). I found all sorts of places where the spending plan H gave me a year ago vastly underestimated real expenses. Just one example, a year ago he stated we spent about $400/mo on food, so my spending plan figured with him gone it would be $300. We're spending over three times that, every month. That's just one item; there are lots that bad. So obviously I have input a new budget and text alerts that come to my cell phone, and we'll watch every expense, but I also need to find out what I can expect for child support and spousal support and get the process started to get these. I'm basically spending my kids' college and my retirement security, and I'm going to run out of those not too far from now.

I felt like I lived almost as frugally as possible, and now I have to get more frugal. So there's a tiny bit of self pity, and I'd lie if I didn't think occasionally that we were doing fine until H added a second household into the family expenses by moving out. But more so I don't really want to be pitied, I just want to take care of my sh!t. I am better off than a lot of people in this world and I'm resilient. My kids will work to get an education if they need to, and we'll be fine. BUT it's up to me to begin getting what we are entitled to from H.

I don't know what this means for buying him out of the house now, but I feel less attached to one outcome or the other out of principle, which I did before. I just want to do what makes sense. I've got to get everything plugged into this program and get back in touch with my financial advisor.

I guess before I fall in a hole again I should schedule an hour here and there to move this project forward and complete it.

So that's the news on the paperwork front. On the personal front:

H told me via text last Sunday that we're invited to Thanksgiving at friends' in Pittsburgh. I wrestled a bit, decided I would love to see these friends, so I shuffled existing plans made with my family and started looking into getting a hotel room nearby (with all of H's family invited, and the friends just moved into a townhouse, staying offsite was a given). Then, announcement came that friends' mother is sick and Thanksgiving is called off. No more word about Thanksgiving until today, when H emailed me that his mom had decided since the friends cancelled she'd have people over at her apartment and maybe get Chinese and go to a movie.

In the meantime my plans with my family including out of towners had been reinstated and I won't wishywash on them a second time. So I told H I'd be here with family at 4:30pm for Thanksgiving dinner. I could bring the kids to his mom's and bring them home mid-afternoon, or else he can have them for the whole day, or whatever works for him. The unsigned separation agreement he drafted included something about trading off Thanksgivings and Christmases, but he has not said or asked anything like that and this is the first of these holidays so far. And I'm not specifically referring to the draft separation agreement because I don't want to imply that I agreed to any of it. (my IC was kind of concerned that I may have implied my agreement by not responding to it for a year, so I'll have to deal with the repercussions of that too.)

Anyway, I want my out of town relatives to eat some meals with my kids over the weekend but none of us is wedded to the specific date and time of "Thanksgiving dinner" nor does H seem to be.

As I've been going through my financial stuff I've been texting him various things I need. He never sent me a copy of our joint tax form 2012, so he said he'll send it after work. I asked for him to send me the reimbursements from insurance for my year's worth of counseling (I pay out of pocket, and insurance sends him a check for 80%, and I sure could use that money back). So this is generating a little more communication than usual but all neutral.

I waited till the end to title this thread, but I think it's about how facing reality is a good thing.

[adinva]

Ohhhh yeah and since I'm here, happy 20th anniversary to me. We were married 11/27/93. It's just another day in a lifetime, and I still love Thanksgiving. No worries.

[Accuray]

Happy anniversary. Glad to see that you're taking on the dragon of sorting out finances and your separation agreement, that took courage.

My friends who are budget zealots use the app from mint.com which they find very helpful in terms of sticking to their spending plan. It also produces really funny exchanges like "what kind of ATM charges a $7.00 convenience fee, and why would you visit it four times in one night?"

In any case, it's been a while and it's nice to read that you're in a good place and taking care of business.

[adinva]

Thanks A and GM!

...and 2 big dogs, they eat a lot too.

I will look at mint.com.

My mom was a legendary depression era old New England budgeter and managed to put 5 kids through college, mostly two at a time, on one salary. We've heard stories about these ledgers, but I never actually saw one.

My H and I agreed completely on money back when we met and had nothing. We always spent very little and banked all the rest, went conservative on housing and cars, rarely bought clothes, and splurged on good deals on vacations. Since we lived so far under our means, my little luxury was to not worry about charting and graphing it, and all the money became H's department anyway. He was a financial advisor for a while, and was a lot more interested in money matters, so it seemed like smart division of labor at the time.

Now if I was advising a young couple, I'd say division of labor is fine but must include regular communication so there's still understanding and agreement about the decisions that are made. So it's still cooperative even if someone is doing the legwork. H and I didn't communicate well so it was easier to carve out territories, and in hindsight that was a red flag.

[jp787]

Ad,

I enjoy reading glasses your post. I recently worked on a budget and thought about $300 on grocery store, when I went in detail on back statements it was close to $600 wow! Room for improvement there!

Thanks K you so much for all of your support over the last year.

My anniversary is 11/28/92

[adinva]

Thanksgiving was nice. I dropped a plan I had to take a free yoga class with my sister, in order to take the kids to MILS to see their dad for a few hours. I caught myself pitying myself for not being able to do what I wanted to do, but when I examined my priorities I decided that was what I did want to do, and I let go of the yoga class, just like earlier I let go of the 5K race I had decided I didn't have the money to afford.

So we got to MIL's and my role there immediately became companion to MIL, which is like normal. She likes to show me things she's working on or areas she's organized. I usually give her lots of positive feedback and show an interest, and she likes that. So I helped her in the kitchen and served drinks and examined all her projects and generally tried to give her lots of attention. H did not get off the couch when we arrived, and he remained there except while eating. He was mostly on his phone and for a while took a nap.

While awake he was generally kind of obnoxious. For example, in the football game on tv someone took a hit and he said in his outdoor voice "well THAT's gonna be a concussion - HA!!!!" He was just being kind of a loud jerk. I spoke to him when he spoke to me, and when I thought he was being obnoxious I just let it go and didn't laugh or encourage or correct him. He was just kind of there. The kids sat on chairs near the couch and watched the Thanksgiving parade or the football game, and seemed pretty bored. S13 got bored enough to help with one of MIL's projects, putting stickers on cards for a Christmas goodie for people in nursing homes. MIL really likes when people pitch in on that; I did a few too.

MIL was in rare form. I think I just see her with different eyes now. I was leaning on the counter while she washed dishes so I said, "I feel lazy, let me dry," and went for a towel. She said no that's ok. So I said "oh, are you sure?" and got a lecture about how insulted she feels whenever anyone says that. They are acting like she doesn't know what she wants. They are questioning her decision. If she wasn't sure she wouldn't have said it, on and on and on. I said "Well I didn't mean to offend, I meant it more like, last chance! you can change your mind and get free labor!" but she was not amused, and said, well it did offend. okaaaaayyyyyy......

Then another example, I was mentioning her grandson my nephew, who recently told me he's in love and he and his girlfriend plan to marry as soon as they can get a wedding organized. MIL said I met her and I said "oh, you MET her?" and got a lecture about not listening. She said "Let me start over. I MET her." ohboy. MIL said, I met her and thought she was immature. She kept laughing, and I thought that was immature. I could tell it was out of nervousness, but I didn't like it. So when she laughed about something that didn't seem like an appropriate time to laugh I asked her WAS THAT FUNNY?" ohboy, poor girl.

Just makes me realize more how damaging it must have been to grow up with that. She says these things in her cute little sweet Asian grandma way and under the nice tone of voice, there is such judgment and spite.

When it was time for us to go on to my parents' the kids were about bolting down the hallway, and I did something I've done in the past as their mom, to say hey, don't we have hugs for grandma? I mean, at 13 and 15 if they can escape a hug they will, but their grandma's not going to be around forever and deserves a proper goodbye. S13 had hugged her on the way in and said "only one hug per grandma per day." So he refused. S15 gave her a nice hug goodbye. I gave her a hug goodbye. You could probably argue that I shouldn't force the kids to show affection for their relatives, and I could see validity in that, but teens are squirrely and reticent, and a little push might be welcome encouragement. At their age I was really weird about hugs and longed for it to be normal and natural, and I loved it when people were just free and easy with their emotions toward me even though I had a hard time coming forward with my own. I know my kids are not a repeat of me, but based on my history, I think nudging in that area doesn't hurt. I think it bugs MIL that they don't think of it and do it themselves. Oh well, whatever. I do the best I can. I don't recall H saying bye to any of us. H's brother came after we had eaten, so we visited with him a little too. It was all fine. Oh also H asked S15 to drive him over to Starbucks, which was nice, although Starbucks ended up being closed, S15 got some attention from MIL and his uncle for being so grownup to be driving.

H offered to pick up coffee for people so I asked for my usual tall soy misto, extra hot. H said "They hate it when you ask for extra hot. That's annoying." I didn't answer that, it was fine, whatever. I just really don't think the Starbucks people hate that, and when I'm paying for my expensive coffee there they usually seem fine with making it how I want it.

So we headed over to my parents' where my brother and SIL and sister were already, and had delicious turkey and wine and laughter.

My poor kids got to be bored twice, but that's the holidays! It's character building.

[2thepoint]

Hey AD. Saw your post and thought I'd pop in to say hello and offer a comment or two.

Then another example, I was mentioning her grandson my nephew, who recently told me he's in love and he and his girlfriend plan to marry as soon as they can get a wedding organized. MIL said I met her and I said "oh, you MET her?" and got a lecture about not listening. She said "Let me start over. I MET her." oh boy. MIL said, I met her and thought she was immature. She kept laughing, and I thought that was immature. I could tell it was out of nervousness, but I didn't like it. So when she laughed about something that didn't seem like an appropriate time to laugh I asked her WAS THAT FUNNY?" oh boy, poor girl.

Just makes me realize more how damaging it must have been to grow up with that. She says these things in her cute little sweet Asian grandma way and under the nice tone of voice, there is such judgment and spite.

After all that you have shared, this ^^^^ explains so much about your H and his behavior, past and present. It is really quite remarkable and sad frankly, just how people can be so dramatically influenced by negative behavior of their parents. Good for you for working so hard to show your kids a different way forward.

H offered to pick up coffee for people so I asked for my usual tall soy misto, extra hot. H said "They hate it when you ask for extra hot. That's annoying." I didn't answer that, it was fine, whatever. I just really don't think the Starbucks people hate that, and when I'm paying for my expensive coffee there they usually seem fine with making it how I want it.

I'm with you here. If we're going to pay $4+ for a cup of coffee, it should be prepared to our liking. I'll take a grande vanilla latte, no foam and extra hot, please!

[adinva]

Lol! I am so glad to hear they haven't been hiding hatred behind their cheery smiles at me all this time!

But i doubt having a solid case for my side would help with h; it's his anxiety that makes him disapprove so much of me. I think he was more looking to put me down than to spare the barista trouble. I don't think there's anything in the world i can do about that other than try not to take it personally.

My ic generally encourages me to stand up for myself and set boundaries with h; not sure if even she would think this rises to the level of needing to do something about it. Throughout the hours w h and mil i didn't verbally challenge or confront anything that was offensive to me, but i think i received their cr@p differently. I think it's ok to let them be themselves. I don't feel very cared about by either of them, though i think both of them inviting me to be there with the kids was their way of extending some caring feelings in my direction. With about the warmth of a 40-watt lightbulb.

[bustingout]

Lol advina the coffee thing made me laugh. It sounds like something H would throw out to me- just to get a little pinch in if possible.

I like the sound of your post. You sound strong and very clear headed. I can't believe it's been a year.. I remember when it all started a year ago... The agreement... Time flies when your having fun huh?

You have given me a lot to think about in regards to finances...

Take care Ad

((((( )))))))

[willbwell]

on the same timeline!! have been ignoring the finances too. h always took care of them. I grew up poor. H grew up not wanting for anything. there was never that financial worry for him.

We blow thru the money. we don't drive super fancy car. I don't buy fancy clothes( I shop at Target while h will shop at Nordstrom)We do though now have the two budgets...his apt, cable, electricity, eating out, gym membership....

H has a nice sum in an inheritance that has only his name on. I am not legally entitled. I have told h that I want 1/2 of that.

I have put the pencil to paper. I know we spend over what h brings in monthly...he pays the overage out of that account that is in his sole name.

I guess I am supposed to consider myself lucky?
I have not brought up the finances conversation with him.
We just continue as normal...

the numbers have always made my head swim. h knows this...

I know this is an underlying fear.I've not worked in 20 years.( yes, I have been lucky) I got to be a volunteer at the kids school.I got to be home for them after I will now be applying for a job as a 50 year old!