The Big Hill

[bustingout]

I wonder too about their enjoyment in life. I suppose they don't even know that there could be another way. Another choice.

Anyway pud I hope you are having a good day today :-)

[TSquared2]

The difference for me now is that this barn door has been open a long time and the animals are now in Kenya.

I just spewed coffee at my monitor thanks to that ^^^.

Back to the discussion, I have watched my W do the same thing through this, and yes...it was totally NOT okay to express negative feelings, or standup for herself, growing up.

[Pudmuddle]

Hi Betsey, I'm glad you are still reading my posts as I always appreciate your insight.

I do think your xh and my h are very similar in telling others what they want to hear just to keep people happy. He always wants people to think highly of them so he tells them what they want to hear. This is why he is so good at 'lying'.

I may not have forgiven myself all the way yet, and I don't think I can until he can forgive me and himself as well. It feels like a cloud hanging over my head that he can't understand that people just eff up sometimes, even people that you put on pedestals. He always said I was his queen and he did have me on a pedestal when we got married and for about 17 years of our marriage. He was always reliant on me to 'make him happy'. He admits this too. Thus, the finding other people to make him happy. And I know I may never get this forgiveness from him, unless he can deal with his deeper issues.

I don't want to be with someone who will tell me what I want to hear just so there aren't any waves. I want someone who is mature/stable enough to handle the cr@p life throws at you and able to help both of us through it. That's why this hurts so much. Because when I got married it was because I believed he and I could handle any life event that came our way. I still believe IN this, but not so sure I believe he can do this...at least right now I KNOW he can't.

I helped him through so many rough times, I want that care given back. And that's...what hurts.

Hi busting, Thanks I am having a better day. I woke up looking terrible, lol, but I felt a great sense of relief and further detachment today.

I am seeing more and more why it is so important to detach and be my happy self. Because he can't remember half the stuff we talk about and I cannot fix him. I even told him this and he agreed with it. I know he is seeing my changes, because I haven't told him anything about what I'm doing and he has said I have become a better person, I have really done some deep soul-searching and I seem generally happy anymore.

Love to you all! I hope all of you have a great day today.

[TSquared2]

I may not have forgiven myself all the way yet, and I don't think I can until he can forgive me and himself as well.

Hi PM,

Would you explain a bit more on that up there ^^^, please.

Thanks!

[TSquared2]

forgot the question mark... " ?"

[Underdog]

T2 - Hope you had a towel close by! Sorry about that, but the only place I could think about far away from Denver was Kenya! That's how long ago our stuff could have been resolved.

Pud -

I helped him through so many rough times, I want that care given back. And that's...what hurts.

God, I know. I really do. I want that for you too. Life is unfair and unperfect, isn't it?

I still believe IN this, but not so sure I believe he can do this...at least right now I KNOW he can't.

Yes, it looks like you're right - at least right this very minute. This is why these talks aren't bad for you, Pud. You're not nasty and neither of you escalate. That's what the DB principles are meant to change, my friend. It's to change the dance so that you can interact differently and possibly enlighten each other that you *can* change. You can only do what you can do. Some of this stuff is up to him. And with some time, focus and the ability to address these issues in a caring, adult manner, you will get the answers you need. If he steps up to the plate, then you've already made up some ground. If not, then you know with all certainty that you have done everything you could possibly do to show that you are committed to him, your marriage and family and the entire process.

While I know that doesn't make all better and a magic pill, it's all you can do. You're human. And if he chooses NOT to forgive you and himself, well, that speaks to his character. It doesn't make him a bad person, it just means that he's got the flaw that won't allow you to move forward together.

Back to psych 101.

He always wants people to think highly of them so he tells them what they want to hear.

Yes, this is part and parcel of the syndrome, Pud. My XH is the same. He doesn't like being a d!ck. That's why we have a good post-D R. Did I ever tell you why I refer to him here as Mr. Wonderful aka Mr. W.? It's certainly not because I think he is.

Right after he moved out, I saw a man doll at Bed Bath & Beyond. He was called Mr. Wonderful. You pulled a string, and he blathered "flattering" platitudes: "You are so wonderful!", "You light up my life"! Crap like that. Totally insincere. It reminded me of him, at his very worst - spewing those platitudes at me while he had one foot out the door.

I spent a lot of time in counseling. I learned enough about the P/A person to see what it really means: My XH is an emotionally dishonest person. What makes it worse is that he continually makes himself out to be the victim, because everyone just wants something from him and he's just powerless to tell them to F off. Seriously? Like you, I expected him to step up, man up and let us try to do things the right way - a way so that we would both find our R fulfilling and meaningful.

Like you, I was on a pedestal. The moment he saw my character flaws, he knocked me off. Pedestals are like rose colored glasses. Completely useless because you don't allow yourself to see people as they are. And face it, we're all flawed. Some of us are just willing to work with the flaws and try to improve ourselves along the way.

This path isn't in vain, Pud. I pray that you get the miracle you deserve. No matter what the outcome may be, you're doing what YOU need to do to ensure that outcome is possible. So 3 cheers for you. And I mean that from the bottom of my heart.

Hugs to you on this snowy, cold day.

Betsey

[Pudmuddle]

Sure T.

He told me in our deep elephant in the room convo, long story short here, that he probably has not forgiven me for having an EA years ago. He said he still has resentment for that. He also has said many times that he has not forgiven himself for the PAs he has had, one years ago and one now(makes me wonder how many more there were that I didn't know about). He admits he was much more immature on handling that, but it took a great whack to his male pride.

He always relied on me and our great sex to make him happy. He once told me it just made everything seem better. So that made me feel like well he can go out and get sex with ANYBODY, so where was the emotional attachment with me, the ML part. This has been non-existent for him for about 10 years now, before my EA and much more after.

[TSquared2]

hmm, so my question is, why do you need HIM to forgive you and himself, before YOU can forgive YOU?

[Pudmuddle]

I want him to abandon his resentment towards me and realize that I am human and I effed up. He seeks revenge and retaliation for the things I do. And he never shares with me when is unhappy so he does it passively aggressively by retaliating. At times it almost feels like a contest and not a marriage. well YOU did this so I'M going to do this!

I've been in a victim mentality for 6 years now because I felt like I was the one who started this whole mess. Poor me I f^cked up. Now I realize he would have done this whether I was in his life or not. So I get completely confused when he is SO HURT that he would not share this with me, yet go out behind my back and lie and cheat, and sleep with other people. You will still see peeps of the victim in me as that is a cycle I am trying to break. I think this part of it is the last thread hanging on because I feel his resentment of me.

That hurt, yet thanks for asking that deep question.

[Underdog]

I want him to abandon his resentment towards me and realize that I am human and I effed up. He seeks revenge and retaliation for the things I do.

Pud, I think this is why T2 asked. While it's okay that you would like this to happen, this is entirely in your H's hands. He will take action here when he feels like doing it. Or conversely, he might not.

Neither one of his choices precludes you to understanding this dynamic and doing what you're doing so as not to do this in the future. You're doing your part, and this is a work in progress, right? And no matter what HE does, you can stick to your own forgiveness program. Hell, I know how hard it is. And it's a long term process. Just when you think you've completely crossed the bridge, you find yourself back on the side you began on.

The important part of this process is being vulnerable and humble to our own truths. You are your S16's model, and you're doing your part.

For the record, Pud... maybe you have been victimized?!?! I see a heart wrenching statement here in this post, 2nd paragraph that would be a tough pill to swallow in any marriage. I'm not advocating holding on to the victim mentality, but just maybe you've got a chicken and egg thing going here? From where I sit, you painted a very hurtful truth about how your H chooses to treat someone he loves.

The big question is: is the person he chooses to be from here on? And ultimately the biggest one is the one that has you deciding if he can be the man you need him to be. Actions are telling, and sometimes you have to be patient and take the time to see what happens. You're doing your part to *show* him that you can have something different than you had in the past.

I hope you do see that this whole process was not 100% your doing?